****ing Cheaters

mattrgee

It really gets me down. I wondered over to a different forum the other day and read a couple of posts, before I know it I was in full Braindumpers territory surrounded by rediculous excuses about how using real exam questions is not really cheating but a way to compliment your learning. You should have heard their excuses: Oh I know the material I just use them to make sure I'm not wasting my exam fee blah blah blah.

I know there are some people who mistakenly wonder into the braindump territory and use the real exam questions unknowingly, but it doesn't take a genious to work out whats going on.

If I ever work with someone who has cheated their way through exams that other people have worked hard to achieve then I'll expose the cheating ****tards for what they really are. I read a comment over at MCMCSE a while ago and some guy said he was working with a guy who had just 'passed' his MCSE and openly admitted he used braindumps. when asked if he was going to report the guy to his boss he said 'no' because he didn't want to get involved. Well give it 5 years and when that same guy, the same ****, the same idiot who wasn't capable of getting a certification using his own intelligence gets the job over you perhaps people will reconsider how these morans are treated!

IT is full of people who think they know what they've doing, who have a peice of paper that was obtained through fraudulent methods it's about time they were put in their place and shown that life isn't about taking the easy route its about working your ass off to get somewhere.

So who's with me? Who isn't going to stand aside while some **** gets that job/promotion over you? It's about time people started defending themselves and their investment in their career.

Matt

amp2030

I'm with you brother, and I don't even have an IT job yet. I plan to get one though, and it's bad enough I'll look like a paper tiger when I apply without all these cheaters devaluing certifications even more. If I knew of a dumper, I wouldn't bother with the boss: he/she may not care; I'd report them to MS (CISCO, etc.) directly.

EdTheLad

I could care less, this has been discussed in countless threads already and no matter how many threads you write dumpers will continue to ****, its time to accept this and move on.
If the person who **** can sucessfully land a job and pull the wool over managements eyes i'll shake his hand.
I've got a guy like this in my company, all the managers love him.We were in a team meeting the other day when up pops his name on the presentation with a big "congratulations for achieving ccie".Afterwards myself and others questioned him on this,turns out he only passed the written, using **** mind you.Long story short, upper management all think hes a ccie now.
This guy is genius he's such a smooth operator, its amazing, technically he's useless but as far as all the managers are concerned he's God.His new title is network architect, all the engineers in my department are on to him, all in thats about 12 ccie'rs, we all sit back and admire his advance through the ranks.

UnixGuy

I'm with you on hating cheaters, but I think complaining to boss will not solve the problem. Some of my co-workers are braindumpers and their progress is nothing compared to mine, so I really don't care if they have piece of paper or not, I gained the knowledge and the expertise by earning my certs. I will not complain to my boss because I know it won't do me any good. I wish there was something I can do, but it seems to me that this is Microsoft and Cisco jobs to keep updating their exams and stop braindumps companies, not us individuals.

As simple as that, if Microsoft keep changing questions, it will make braindumpers life much harder.

UnixGuy

EdTheLad wrote:

I could care less, this has been discussed in countless threads already and no matter how many threads you write dumpers will continue to ****, its time to accept this and move on.
If the person who **** can sucessfully land a job and pull the wool over managements eyes i'll shake his hand.
I've got a guy like this in my company, all the managers love him.We were in a team meeting the other day when up pops his name on the presentation with a big "congratulations for achieving ccie".Afterwards myself and others questioned him on this,turns out he only passed the written, using **** mind you.Long story short, upper management all think hes a ccie now.
This guy is genius he's such a smooth operator, its amazing, technically he's useless but as far as all the managers are concerned he's God.His new title is network architect, all the engineers in my department are on to him, all in thats about 12 ccie'rs, we all sit back and admire his advance through the ranks.

I seriously doubt the intelligence of your management !

jryantech

I hate cheaters as much as the next guy.

But honestly as said in this thread... If someone can get away with landing a nice job with being paper certified it was the interviewers fault. Exams also need to be more secure so brain **** can not be an issue as well.

If someone honestly just got a bunch of certs with brain **** they won't last long at there job anyway.

motogpman

It's a catch 22 in that respect. If this guy is "smooth" and can pull the wool over management, then they obvously don't know **** or do not have a technical background. If you go to your manager, then he will probably look at you as a trouble maker or jealous of said asshat's rise to the top.

People like that will always be in the workplace, trust me, I have one I am dealing with now and it is hard to choke down everyday. It does give me motivation to learn as much as I can, refine my skills, and make sure to let him step on his own d&^* when he can. He does this quite often by the way. Then I can sleep better knowing that soon, he will screw up enough that he will become his own demise. Karma!

To the OP, I can agree, these types of people can be frustrating to deal with, but unfortunatly, they are not the kind of people who care or give a crap abnout changing their ways. If you have proof, I way contact MS or CISCO, I know I would. I see it as up to us, that do work hard, to get involved..... to a point. I think that is a major problem nowadays, people don't want to get involved and then when the problem gets way too out of hand, they want to blame others or the system, when really, we ARE part of the system.

Just my 2 cents....

oo_snoopy

mattrgee wrote:

It really gets me down. I wondered over to a different forum the other day and read a couple of posts, before I know it I was in full Braindumpers territory surrounded by rediculous excuses about how using real exam questions is not really cheating but a way to compliment your learning. You should have heard their excuses: Oh I know the material I just use them to make sure I'm not wasting my exam fee blah blah blah.

I know there are some people who mistakenly wonder into the braindump territory and use the real exam questions unknowingly, but it doesn't take a genious to work out whats going on.

If I ever work with someone who has cheated their way through exams that other people have worked hard to achieve then I'll expose the cheating ****tards for what they really are. I read a comment over at MCMCSE a while ago and some guy said he was working with a guy who had just 'passed' his MCSE and openly admitted he used braindumps. when asked if he was going to report the guy to his boss he said 'no' because he didn't want to get involved. Well give it 5 years and when that same guy, the same ****, the same idiot who wasn't capable of getting a certification using his own intelligence gets the job over you perhaps people will reconsider how these morans are treated!

IT is full of people who think they know what they've doing, who have a peice of paper that was obtained through fraudulent methods it's about time they were put in their place and shown that life isn't about taking the easy route its about working your ass off to get somewhere.

So who's with me? Who isn't going to stand aside while some **** gets that job/promotion over you? It's about time people started defending themselves and their investment in their career.

Matt

While I don't condone cheating, I think you're getting a little too worked up over something that isn't that big of a deal. Certifications don't land jobs anymore (I think a lot of people long for the days when they still did). What matters is your interviewing skills and your ability. If you **** your way and you don't know the subject it's going to show, and if you know a subject and don't have a specific cert, it's going to show.

empc4000xl

Just let them hang themselves. Would I go to cisco or MS? No you don't want your company dealing with loosing there partnership status? That would be the end of you quickly and good luck trying to find a job elsewhere. Don't worry about what the next person is doing, that is like running a race and looking behind you to see who's running up behind you. Your not doing nothing but wasting your time and energy. Put your time and energy into your own career, and learn how to make moves for yourself and you will be fine.

skrpune

I hate cheaters as much as the next person...but you have to wonder about managers/companies that don't know enough to NOT hire cheaters or who are easily fooled by a shmoozer who uses brain ****. Big name companies do have brain dumpers under their employ, and that's depressing, but I'd like to think that the dumpers will eventually show their true colors and show their lack of knowledge and get the karmic slap upside the head they deserve.

ilcram19-2

i never like to take "short-cuts" but some people do, i've seen guys that they know how to talk and say the right thing to management and get them to do stuff or make himself look like a hero, i dont know if i be able to live knowing that i've cheated my way on my job but i know that i love what i do and i enjoy learning so as far as people cheating we should just let them be at the end everything pays off but i dont think we should care at all if thats is there way to success let it be i least i'll have my pride, plus we can be using this time to be learning so more rather than to be worrying about that

darkerosxx

I like what you did there, using commas but no periods!!

PC509

A lot of people that are just starting out with certifications Google certain things and end up in a forum like you found: where braindumps are a common and OK thing. We need more exposure on the whole braindumps are bad theme. Certguard does a good job, but Microsoft and Cisco and others need to put something on the cert info page about them. Make it easy to spot and make sure that test takers and those new to certifications to find. And I know that it says that you can lose your certification if you are caught using them, but you have to read the fine print.

Someone should run a cool ad campaign in cert magazines, Technet (or Redmond Mag), certification websites, etc. With information on the devaluation of certifications by using braindumps. I think bringing it to the center of attention will help test takers know that they are being watched (or think they are) and give them some facts.

Of course, there are those that think they are good, and have a million excuses to use them. And they will never give them up. The same people that would write the answers of the final on their arm and wear a long sleeve shirt to ****... Ads and consequences don't mean crap to them...

I don't use braindumps as a matter of principle. I don't care if I had to take the test unprepared and my job was on the line. My hard earned cash and time goes into every certification I ***EARN***, and I want it to be worth every penny. A lot of the time, the certification I obtain is a personal goal anyway. Cheating my way through it doesn't do much for the ol' ego, does it? I know my stuff that I have certifications for, and I'm damn proud of it! And I'm glad I'm in good company here.

Maybe I'll write up an article about how crappy they are and see if it can get published somewhere. Because damn... I'm seeing more and more idiots every day.

PC509

skrpune wrote:

I hate cheaters as much as the next person...but you have to wonder about managers/companies that don't know enough to NOT hire cheaters or who are easily fooled by a shmoozer who uses brain ****. Big name companies do have brain dumpers under their employ, and that's depressing, but I'd like to think that the dumpers will eventually show their true colors and show their lack of knowledge and get the karmic slap upside the head they deserve.

Or the managers that push braindumps on the employees as a way to keep their partner status.

I just keep telling myself to do the best I can, and to do MY part in the whole scheme of things. Hopefully, us good fellas can make a difference.

blargoe

At my company it really doesn't matter much coming in the door how you got your credentials... but if the company is investing in your training and learning, and then you **** to get the cert instead of learning and earning it outright, it is a HUGE deal. It is looked at as a wasted investment.

bighornsheep

EdTheLad wrote:

I've got a guy like this in my company, all the managers love him.We were in a team meeting the other day when up pops his name on the presentation with a big "congratulations for achieving ccie".Afterwards myself and others questioned him on this,turns out he only passed the written, using **** mind you.Long story short, upper management all think hes a ccie now.
This guy is genius he's such a smooth operator, its amazing, technically he's useless but as far as all the managers are concerned he's God.His new title is network architect, all the engineers in my department are on to him, all in thats about 12 ccie'rs, we all sit back and admire his advance through the ranks.

I'm hoping that I'm mistaken or you've switched company, but if this crap is happening at Cisco, I'm utterly disappointed.

UnixGuy

empc4000xl wrote:

Just let them hang themselves. Would I go to cisco or MS? No you don't want your company dealing with loosing there partnership status? That would be the end of you quickly and good luck trying to find a job elsewhere. Don't worry about what the next person is doing, that is like running a race and looking behind you to see who's running up behind you. Your not doing nothing but wasting your time and energy. Put your time and energy into your own career, and learn how to make moves for yourself and you will be fine.

+1

EdTheLad

bighornsheep wrote:

I'm hoping that I'm mistaken or you've switched company, but if this crap is happening at Cisco, I'm utterly disappointed.

Unfortunately you're not mistaken.

evil_lbt

I am not surprised at all.

You can't really blame management, because most of them don't have a clue about I.T.

Turgon

Dumping is rife these days. The microsoft ruling on tk hasn't helped matters. The CCIE written is dumped to death, perhaps explaining why so many people have problems with labprep after denying themselves the opportunity to soak themselves in six months of essential theory. A CCIE interview is a bad place to be when you don't really understand spanning-tree. Don't ****. Stay elite!

mamono

I wish that there was something that could be done about that, but I do not see anything in the foreseeable future. Understandable that organizations are taking measures to try to eliminate the issue of braindumpers, but with the implementation of more security measures also give rise to circumventions. I say focus on your own career and be ready to take a stab at their empty intellects when the chance arises. I've done that numerous times over e-mail with CC to executive management. It felt like the closest thing to being on cloud9 at work to know that you just put a braindumper in their place for lack of technical knowledge and insight for subject material that they should be "experts" on.

nel

Turgon wrote:

Dumping is rife these days. The microsoft ruling on "abbreviated version of XXXXXX" hasn't helped matters. The CCIE written is dumped to death, perhaps explaining why so many people have problems with labprep after denying themselves the opportunity to soak themselves in six months of essential theory. A CCIE interview is a bad place to be when you don't really understand spanning-tree. Don't ****. Stay elite!

See folk, Said like a real pro. Listen to the real folk like this. Turgon knows what his talking about.

Besides anyone at a high level like that will get found out because it will show very easily that they dont have a clue.

@ edthelad - thats VERY dissapointing to say the least. If cisco are like that then how can you take what they say about dumping seriously. i know this will be the case with other vendors certs too but these companies have to lead by example because to me it looks like its one rule for us and another for them.

jibbajabba

I hate cheats like anybody else here ... but to be honest, why even bother .. I mean at the end MOST of the cheater will be obvious when they start a job and get fired after the probation anyway ... if not - then the company wasn't even worth it ...

mattrgee

Blimey, yesterday was a stressful day, slightly more chilled after the above rant. Hey ho.

As one of the Ops said, more exposure is whats needed. Perhaps if recruiters knew how easy it was to **** on these exams then perhaps they would be more vigilant when hiring staff and promoting existing staff.

I feel Cisco and Microsoft are really dragging their heals on this, fine shutting them down is a long and slow process but raising awareness doesn't cost much.

Yes, been thinking too much about this need to chill out.

jibbajabba

He - I know how you feel .. a colleague suggested braindumps to test people who were on study leave for an exam to see how good they prepared .. I was fighting (successfully) against it ...

I know someone who couldn't help me with an IP Block on a Cisco switch and had to google it (he is CCNP) ....

But these guys are long gone as it was obvious they know s**t ...this is what I would exepct in most professional companies .. you lie and get the job ... it takes them one project / task to figure out that you are not the one pretended to be ...

I calmed down myself now as I seen people going because of that ..

LarryDaMan

Guys, this is all wasted energy. Complaining won't fix it. We have a group of guys at my current job who spend half of everyday worried about OTHER people. How many certs does this person have? What does that person do all day? How much does that person make? Why did he get to go to training? Blah...Blah...

Get your certs, get your education, and do a good job. Unless someone is directly putting your job in jeopardy, your time is better spent improving your situation instead of paying attention to others. Opportunites will pass you by if you spend too much time being concerned with others. Wasted energy!

pryde7

Truly as humans its annoying when u work hard and be at the same level with someone who cheated without effort.
I picture myself spending 2hours in a test room and a guy spends 15minutes even with a higher score.
All vanity and vexation of spirit. Judgement is the Lord's. But that embarrassing day will always come, no matter when.
We don't expect a pure society but, honesty, sincerity and truth will always prevail.

oo_snoopy

You can't "Or it's really hard too" Braindump your way through a College degree!

empc4000xl

Gomjaba wrote:

He - I know how you feel .. a colleague suggested braindumps to test people who were on study leave for an exam to see how good they prepared .. I was fighting (successfully) against it ...

I know someone who couldn't help me with an IP Block on a Cisco switch and had to google it (he is CCNP) ....

But these guys are long gone as it was obvious they know s**t ...this is what I would exepct in most professional companies .. you lie and get the job ... it takes them one project / task to figure out that you are not the one pretended to be ...

I calmed down myself now as I seen people going because of that ..

I agree with some of the things you said, but the guy who couldn't help you with a IP block and is a NP is not a fair thing. He coulda been a IP working at a service provider or some other thing like that. I say this because switching is one of my weak areas. When I was at a military NOC all I did was touch routers, firewalls and DNS servers. When I got my new job I was a CCNA, but the areas I worked on were pretty much worthless to my new job. Did I learn about switching yeah, but its a difference of using it in a production environment vs working labs. I'm not saying he is or isnt' a dumper, but his previous jobs may not have had him doing a bunch of switching, and if he was able to find the answer by goggling it, and knowing where to find the information, that is as good as knowing it in your head.

ilcram19-2

look all of us man hating on each other this is not human nature is human behavior, we need to stop that,

Plazma

I used to get all upset about this same thing.. but really it just makes me feel like a genius by comparison.