IPEXPERT vs. INTERNETWORK EXPERT

CCIEWANNABECCIEWANNABE Posts: 465Banned
Sorry if this has already been debated here. I was just wondering what people prefer. Is one better than the other? They both seem to have great study material.

Comments

  • TurgonTurgon Posts: 6,313Banned
    I started with IPexpert and did 34 of the labs there. Very good material. No spoon feeding. There is a proctor guide which you have to buy extra which explains the solutions but I didn't buy that, this forces you to try and make sense of the final configurations yourself. The proctor guide doesn't walk you through the solutions in minute detail anyway. So I found that a challenging primer for my studies but I already had quite a lot going for me in terms of experience and knowledge so I got a lot out of it. Im now using IE workbook vol II for a change of scene.

    Be careful with workbooks though. They provide you a framework upon which to further and deepen your studies but they are not a magic bullet and will not teach you everything you need to understand. They provide illustrative worked examples of technologies but what you get out of that depends on greatly on your ancillary studies beyond the workbooks. So you should be starting workbooks already pretty solid on Cisco theory and practice and ideally with experience. During the course of a workbook syllabus expect to be revisiting material on CCO and in Cisco Press books on a regular basis and building out other examples you see on CCO and in Cisco Press books.

    If you are shallow on background coming in then IE would probably be best as their explanations are more verbose but even so they recommend a level of understanding before embarking and you should be studying beyond the workbooks during the course of using them.

    The written exam is important. Six months of reading preparing for that will help prevent you getting too lost in the workbooks too soon. Many candidates shortcircuit the written process only to deny themselves the fundamental learning they need during labprep.


    HTH
  • GT-RobGT-Rob Posts: 1,090Member
    I have seen most of the vendors labs, and they are all pretty similar. I don't think either one is going to give you much more than another. I went with IE labs just because of price, and they were recommended just as much as any others.

    I don't think you will get many people say "stay away from X", as like I said, they are all cover the topics well.


    Both companies should have samples, so compare that way if you like. Also, if you buy other products together (rack time, classes, etc), they are usually able to give you a discount ;)
  • Mrock4Mrock4 Posts: 2,360Banned
    Just to put my $.02 in, I've been very happy with IE. Great customer service, fairly well put-together program in my opinion. Turgon hit the nail on the head as far as the workbooks go. I've learned a LOT from the workbooks, but only because I do my research and delve deeper. If you just do the exercises and nothing more, you probably won't get too much. I guess the saying "you get out what you put in" comes into play here.
  • cisco_troopercisco_trooper Too many Posts: 1,439Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Mrock4 wrote:
    I guess the saying "you get out what you put in" comes into play here.

    +1

    Nothing peeves me more than someone expecting a book or instructor to teach them. Learning happens inside your head, not in a classroom and not in a book. Classrooms and books are simply raw information, barely better than raw data, and as with anything, some are better than others, but YOU have to do the work.
  • CCIEWANNABECCIEWANNABE Posts: 465Banned
    thanks for the help. i know what you guys mean about studying and the workbooks. i guess one must approach the ccie as not just receiving a #, but with a passion of learning how everything works and fits together. I guess that is what is driving me to study for the ccie. Yeah, it would be nice to have the #, but really i want to learn more. there is a guy at my work who is always flaunting that he is a ccnp and studying for his ccie. he makes it known pretty much once or twice a week. i feel he is giving those who are, or those who are in the process of obtaining a ccie a bad name. Sometimes I want to say to him, "why are you bragging? nobody cares!!" I just feel he is trying to get the ccie purely for the bragging rights and i believe that is the worst and most backwards reason to obtain it in the first place.

    I felt that the ccnp was good and that i would probably stop after that, but what i really found out is that I am more curious as to how it all works, even more than when i started. i always find myself replaying routing, switching and other types of scenarios in my head while i'm at home, work or driving somewhere and wondering what i would do in a certain situation or how would this work. All i really know is that my mind is driving me to study for the ccie, not really with the intention of getting a # next to my name, but because i am hungry to learn how it all works.

    so even if i come away without a #, i know i will come away with knowing a lot more than i did before. i just know that while i'm relatively young (27), i know that it is easier to retain information if you learn it while at a young age. the other thing i have going for me is that my study time at work will increase when i go to mid shift, so i will be able to knock out alot in that time period (might as well be studying while everyone else is surfing the web or watching tv). i just feel like i'd rather be studying than doing anything else. i tried to buy some new video games thinking that i would give myself a break after getting my ccnp, but less than a week later i found myself bored and feeling like going back to hitting the books.

    i hope i didn't bore anyone with the above and i really apprecitate everybodys input. if it wasn't for this forum i would have never made it this far!
  • GT-RobGT-Rob Posts: 1,090Member
    I personally feel I have learned MUCH more in the last 6 months studying for IE, than I did with the entire CCNP. Obviously NP gave me the foundation for everything, but its just amazing the change you go through in short time immersed in this crap.

    And I agree. With or without the #, it makes you a better engineer overall.
  • TurgonTurgon Posts: 6,313Banned
    Mrock4 wrote:
    I guess the saying "you get out what you put in" comes into play here.

    +1

    Nothing peeves me more than someone expecting a book or instructor to teach them. Learning happens inside your head, not in a classroom and not in a book. Classrooms and books are simply raw information, barely better than raw data, and as with anything, some are better than others, but YOU have to do the work.

    Very true. And it amazes me how many people spend so much money on this 'n' that product in this 'n' that format expecting somehow to magically understand everything in a hurry. A lot of money made by training outlets that way but I suppose there's a sucker born every minute. Just a few basic materials are usaully enough, the main thing is using them regularly and thinking things through and over and over. Those man hours no instructor can put in for you!
  • dtlokeedtlokee Posts: 2,381Member
    Internetwork Expert puts alot of effort into the Routing and Switching product that doesn't show up in the soultion guides of other tracks they offer from what I have seen. IPExpert seems to offer the same level of detail across the product line if you buy the proctor guide. If you are planning to go with the R+S track it's not a problem, but if you are going a different track (like Service Provider be aware that you will need the lab breakdowns Internetwork Expert offers or you will only get the commands used to solve the task)
    The only easy day was yesterday!
  • AhriakinAhriakin SupremeNetworkOverlord Posts: 1,800Member
    On the security side, which is always the vendor's poor-red-haired-cousin of R&S :) -
    I've done IEWB's Workbook II (Full labs) and just the mini-labs from IPExpert 4.12 security workbook so far (doing their full labs later this month) so I can't directly compare but for the most part they're pretty even. I'd agree with DT in that there is more explanation detail from IPExpert but I've also found the labs (again the smaller ones only so far) to be of slightly lower quality, some are badly written and were very obviously rushed into the workbook - they're still challenging and good tech labs but they just seem to lack a little polish at times. Their marketing approach is a bit different too. IEWB includes the solutions for free (though with less explanation, and they are only beginning to offer detailed wallkthroughs online...at a price) but they split their workbooks into Vol I for min-labs and II for the full ones (10 which is pretty good). IPExpert's workbook includes both types but you have to pay extra for the solutions guide.
    I'd also agree with the comments above that you don't need every book under the sun, though variety helps, I only ended up with both sets as I got a great deal in IPexperts Audio/DVD/Workbook at the beginning of this year (Basically I got them all for the price of the DVD's) and the IEWB Workbook and Adv. Tech Class came free with the bootcamp in Sept as preparation tools for the camp itself (I don't think this is normal, some folks at the camp got the same deal, some didn't but it's worth checking out if you ever book one). The only one of the bunch that I can say is ahead of their competitors offering is the IEWB Adv. Tech Class vs. IPexpert's DVDs, Adv. Tech wins hands down.

    All just my opinion of course, for that it's worth.
    We responded to the Year 2000 issue with "Y2K" solutions...isn't this the kind of thinking that got us into trouble in the first place?
  • TurgonTurgon Posts: 6,313Banned
    Ahriakin wrote:
    On the security side, which is always the vendor's poor-red-haired-cousin of R&S :) -
    I've done IEWB's Workbook II (Full labs) and just the mini-labs from IPExpert 4.12 security workbook so far (doing their full labs later this month) so I can't directly compare but for the most part they're pretty even. I'd agree with DT in that there is more explanation detail from IPExpert but I've also found the labs (again the smaller ones only so far) to be of slightly lower quality, some are badly written and were very obviously rushed into the workbook - they're still challenging and good tech labs but they just seem to lack a little polish at times. Their marketing approach is a bit different too. IEWB includes the solutions for free (though with less explanation, and they are only beginning to offer detailed wallkthroughs online...at a price) but they split their workbooks into Vol I for min-labs and II for the full ones (10 which is pretty good). IPExpert's workbook includes both types but you have to pay extra for the solutions guide.
    I'd also agree with the comments above that you don't need every book under the sun, though variety helps, I only ended up with both sets as I got a great deal in IPexperts Audio/DVD/Workbook at the beginning of this year (Basically I got them all for the price of the DVD's) and the IEWB Workbook and Adv. Tech Class came free with the bootcamp in Sept as preparation tools for the camp itself (I don't think this is normal, some folks at the camp got the same deal, some didn't but it's worth checking out if you ever book one). The only one of the bunch that I can say is ahead of their competitors offering is the IEWB Adv. Tech Class vs. IPexpert's DVDs, Adv. Tech wins hands down.

    All just my opinion of course, for that it's worth.

    Agree with all that, particularly trying a couple of vendors to compare styles etc. Stops you getting locked in.
  • nullrouternullrouter Posts: 52Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    Sorry if this has already been debated here. I was just wondering what people prefer. Is one better than the other? They both seem to have great study material.

    They're both well put together. I've material from both vendors, and they are pretty much A quality. The benefit of both, is you get to see various ways questions can be worded, and different thoughts on the technology. Finally, as already mentioned is you don't get to used to the lab topology, as that can catch you out in the real lab.
    CCIE R&S All Done :D


    Web Blog of sorts:
    http://blog.nullrouter.com
  • CCIEWANNABECCIEWANNABE Posts: 465Banned
    thanks for all the responses. today i will find out if we are going to permanent shifts at work. if we are then i will be taking mid shift and my journey for the ccie will begin. i really can't wait.
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