network +

KatanaSam wrote:

Which leads me to my next question... if you have such disregard for certifications why are you hovering around a forum for certifications?

Ahh to lump sum things based on no evidence.

KatanaSam wrote:

But it doesn't change the fact that many A+ certified people do know things that you will never know.

Again, to say things based on no evidence. How do you know what my skills are?

I have a disregard for the A+ exam and its worth. How does this make me have a disregard for ALL certifications and a forum that covers many of them? I dont know how you came to this slippery slope conclusion but its not based on anything I ever wrote.

If you see me hanging around in the A+ section bagging on people and the A+ cert, then you may have a point. But unfortunately this section is labelled "IT Jobs" and I made my suggestion of using time/money wiser than pursing a certification in A+. If you feel the time/money is a great investment for the A+ than thats your opinion. But there is no need to make across the board generalizations about my 'hovering' when I dislike one particular certification.

I question why so many of you are defensive on opposing opinions? Both of you have opposing opinions which is great, but then need to "backup" your opinion by attempting to attack me. Whats with this 'hovering' and 'disregard for certifications'?? Just because I disagree with one particular certification? You guys need to switch to decaf and learn how to accept different opinions.

I am new here so I havent made many comments but please feel free to search for other posts I have made and see if you still think I am hovering around with a disregard for certifications to backup your claim.

sab4you wrote:

I have a disregard for the A+ exam and its worth...

A certification exam that you have never taken and clearly know nothing about.

The A+ is probably the most widely recognized and saught after certification from the CompTIA line up. If you disregard its worth to people who actually work with computer hardware or OS's then you'd be pretty stupid to claim to see value in any other CompTIA cert.

You are reasoning that computer technicians don't need A+ and A+ is worthless to them. Yet you feel that for any other occupation the certs are somehow more valuable?

What you're going say that Network+ is somehow more valuable to a Network Admin (who'd probably would rather have the CCNA) than A+ is to a computer technician? Tell me... what other cert would be of more value to a computer technician?

sab4you wrote:

Again, to say things based on no evidence. How do you know what my skills are?

Maturity and the good sense that comes with it tells me that other people know things that I do not. I also know that others know things that you do not. I'm sorry but if you need proof that this is true then you need to look into the LifeInTheRealWorld+ certification.

KatanaSam wrote:

sab4you wrote:

Again, to say things based on no evidence. How do you know what my skills are?

Maturity and the good sense that comes with it tells me that other people know things that I do not. I also know that others know things that you do not. I'm sorry but if you need proof that this is true then you need to look into the LifeInTheRealWorld+ certification.

Your attempt to use wise words is lame. Of course others know things you do not and you know things others dont. You still have no clue what my skill level is, what I have achieved or anything so your stupid attempt as philosophy still doesnt give you the magical powers to know what computer skills I have or have not achieved.

You may wish to take your own advise on the certifications or skip certifications all together and work on getting a life. Its a stupid A+ conversation that seems to be the crutch of your small existance as the two of you take an opposing opinion as personal attack. Are you guys sponsored by "team A+ certifications" or something? Do you sleep with your A+ certification under your pillow every night? Its a small certification that you guys take way to personal. Get over it. Get a hobby, maybe fishing? Step away from the computer for awhile and work on some people skills - thats gonna get you farther in the workplace than an A+ anyways.

If you get all warm and fuzzy knowing you have an A+ and you have the magical powers to understand everybody's skill levels from a 5 minute conversation online, thats great for you. I am sure NASA is looking for such critical thinking insightful people as yourself, so maybe you can submit your A+ resume there and not waste time with such lowly unskilled people as me who couldnt possibly understand or pass the A+ exam. Ooops, gotta go - somebody is at the gas pump and I need to clean their windows. yuk yuk.

sab4you wrote:

Your attempt to use wise words is lame. Of course others know things you do not and you know things others dont. You still have no clue what my skill level is, what I have achieved or anything so your stupid attempt as philosophy still doesnt give you the magical powers to know what computer skills I have or have not achieved.

Here's what I do know:

1) No educated adult who wants to be taken seriously describes anything as 'lame'.

2) You failed to answer a simple A+ question that I put to you and thus I must assume you don't know the answer. Somehow not suprising, I didn't know the answer either until I actually studied for the A+ exam. Gee maybe the A+ isn't such a waste?

3) You either:

A) Took the A+ exam and:

a) Failed it. Sour grapes anyone?
b) Passed it. Do as I say and not as I do. [sarcasm]That would make your opinion valuable![/sarcasm].

Never took the A+ exam and thus have no clue what you're talking about.

It all amounts to one fact. Your opinion of the A+ exam and certification are worth less than the A+ exam is in your opinion.

If you get all warm and fuzzy knowing you have an A+ and you have the magical powers to understand everybody's skill levels from a 5 minute conversation online, thats great for you.

You made the point of bashing A+. Further more you still haven't answered my question oh wise one.

"Tell me... what other cert would be of more value to a computer technician?"

Don't blame people who are A+ certified for your feelings of inadequacy. Did you know that attributing feelings of superiority to others without actually knowing them is a classic sign of an inferiority complex? You might want to look into that.

Or maybe it's just that you like to accuse other people of jumping to conclusions but think it's okay for you to do it? I detect an ID-ten-T error.

Seriously, the A+ is benefitial. If you think otherwise I guess people will decide for themselves where to file your opinion.

"KatanaSam wrote:

Here's what I do know:

1) No educated adult who wants to be taken seriously describes anything as 'lame'.

LOL - pretty funny to hear you talking about educated adult when you claim to posses some magical skill of determing a skill level based on if somebody agrees with you or not.

2) You failed to answer a simple A+ question that I put to you and thus I must assume you don't know the answer. Somehow not suprising, I didn't know the answer either until I actually studied for the A+ exam. Gee maybe the A+ isn't such a waste?

The key word is assume. Thats your lacking of intelligence to come to this conclusion, not mine. If you needed to study for an exam to find out to reboot 98 into DOS then your the exact type of person I have already talked about - somebody who doesnt understand computers enough to use them and learn them and need to study for an A+. You stated it, STUDY. Any maroon could use Win98 and figure it out, where you had to get some books and study to figure it out. Thats the type of person who shouldnt be in computers. I mean seriously, how low level is that? And you needed to study a book to learn it? Somebody who understands computers should have been able to figure it out without needing to purchase study books and spend all their time studying. If anything it should be a compliment to your education, not the crutch and basis for it - especially when its so damn low level. This isnt complex here, booting into Win98 DOS. WOW

3) You either:

A) Took the A+ exam and:

a) Failed it. Sour grapes anyone?
b) Passed it. Do as I say and not as I do. [sarcasm]That would make your opinion valuable![/sarcasm].

Never took the A+ exam and thus have no clue what you're talking about.

Again, the very weak philosophy major is back. You give a set of options for which to choose from and then debunk them to point towards your conclusion. Was that philosophy 101 at your local junior college to learn this one? How about

1) What does it matter what I state my A+ skills are or are not. Its the internet and you will never know if its true or not either way. You can easily make up some stupid reasoning about me no matter how I answer.

2) Whats it to you? Its extremely ignorant to base what my opinion on the A+ is due to if I have taken and passed the test, failed it, or what. Looking outside your box maybe you could think I can see what kind of people who take the A+ and you even support my opinion in that you had to study to learn how to boot 98 into DOS. I dont base my opinion of the A+ based on its content, but thats probably too much for you to grasp.

It all amounts to one fact. Your opinion of the A+ exam and certification are worth less than the A+ exam is in your opinion.

This is your continual attitude that just shows how worthless you really are as a person. I posted my opinion and left it at that. You took it as a personal quest to personally attack me as opposed to simply posting an opposing opinion. It simply shows a low intelligence to resort to name calling when you disagree with something. How about you kick my ass? Maybe we can meet at the flag pole after school?

[/quote]
You made the point of bashing A+. Further more you still haven't answered my question oh wise one.

"Tell me... what other cert would be of more value to a computer technician?"

Whats funny is you have gone on this entire stupid name calling rampage against my opinion yet you lacked the intelligence to understand my opinion in the first place. Further your stupid philosophy 101 class fails you again in that your small brain makes you think 'if he bash A+ then he must thinkie something better'

You could have bypassed all this bullshit, namecalling and being a jackass by simply asking to clarify things you couldnt understand. My opinion is that an aspiring computer technician could use his time and money better than to sit down and study to pass the A+. Your ignorance and desire to argue because you had sex with your A+ certificate (your obviously very attached to it emotionally) didnt allow you to see anything else than past your own solutions. Do you understand what it means when I state I think they could use their time better? Do you understand what it means than to study to pass the A+ test?

To make it clearer for the ignorant argue guy I will tell you. It means I feel if you are an aspiring technical support guy you are obviously interested in the computer field and have some knowledge by using the computer. If you cannot figure out these simple basics then I question why your in computers in the first place - this type of person is forcing computers on themselves as opposed to being able to understand them in the first place. i.e. somebody who needs to shutdown windows 98 into dos but cannot figure it out without a book.

On the other hand there are the people who study for the test just for the sole purpose of adding it to their resume. These type of people probably could pass the A+ with a day of studing or right off the bat. But, IMO those people can simply get the job anyways w/o the A+. I am sure you cannot comprehend this, but I have actually had an IT job or two in the past. In this type there have possibly maybe even had technical support staff involved. The hiring process never seemed to find a better canididate based on an A+ cert or not for this position. A good attitude, interviewing skills, desire to learn and demonstration of knowledge was always the keyfactor.

Thats an opinion. Its not a personal attack against you and the A+ certification you probably carry around with you to show everybody, everywhere you go. Look mommy, I got my A+!!!!

So to answer your question in what cert do I think is better for a technical support position? I think none. I think if they understand computers and belong in a technical support position they can get the job without an A+ certification and I recommend they rather spend their study time and money on pursing a microsoft MCSA/E path. I feel the education learned while pursing a MCSA/E path is time better spent and will give a person better knowledge to be more productive and useful on the job and increase chances to demonstrate ability and move up in the IT industry.

Don't blame people who are A+ certified for your feelings of inadequacy. Did you know that attributing feelings of superiority to others without actually knowing them is a classic sign of an inferiority complex? You might want to look into that.

Man thats a great junior college you went to. Maybe you can provide a link so we can all get educated there on psychology, philosophy and all the other human studies you have mastered. Maybe I kick small animals to make me feel better too huh?

Or maybe it's just that you like to accuse other people of jumping to conclusions but think it's okay for you to do it? I detect an ID-ten-T error.

ID-10-T error? Man you really are a dork. I didnt think people actually used that line. What a goofball you are.

Seriously, the A+ is benefitial. If you think otherwise I guess people will decide for themselves where to file your opinion.

Seriously thats fine. The entire concept that is out of your grasp is that people have different opinions. Your ignorance is displayed in that you need to resort to personal attacks because you disagreed. I think its not a good way to spend time and money, and you seem to feel its the best thing ever and need to personally attack somebody who disagrees. That shows a caveman like intellect and you really need all the help you can get if you expect to move up in career now that you have your coveted A+. This entire thing would have been much easier if you simply stated a disagreement without your baseless claim of me hovering and dislike of all certifications. I suggest you clear your emotional attachment to the A+ which was obviously very difficult for you to obtain. You show me the exact reason why I question the A+ because its coming from somebody who doesnt understand computers, poor problem solving ability and generally speaking shouldnt be in the industry.

And BTW I am done with you. Unless you want to actually ask me about points in a manner without having to resort to claiming to know my skills, my responses and not start off by accusing me of things - then I will glady respond to explain my position if you were unclear about something.

But continuting is a waste of time and nothing but disrespectful towards the webmaster and the members here. It is not productive for anybody.

sab4you wrote:

Unless you want to actually ask me about points in a manner without having to resort to claiming to know my skills, my responses and not start off by accusing me of things - then I will glady respond to explain my position if you were unclear about something.

Yes, well this thread isn't all about you or how your job doesn't require you to have A+ level knowledge or doesn't offer you the prospect of a pay increase or advancement for attaining the A+ certification. Get over yourself.

To anyone who might be reading this thread wondering as the threads creator wondered, whether are certifications worth the effort to get:

As I said earlier, some organizations, especially unionized outfits, have a list of certifications you MUST hold if you want to work there. Where I work we are just now about to implement such a requirement. We recently hired a sys admin who had half a decade of experience and his MCSE but had been passed over by other unionized companies because he didn't have A+. Incidently I work at a college, where education, and not certification, has been the main focus in the past. Interestingly enough, more and more colleges are beginning to enhance their own offerings by including certification objectives in their programs and providing the testing centers so that their students can graduate educated, practicum experienced, and certified.

I don't think anyone here would try to argue that certification is all you need. But it is nice way to top off some education and/or experience. If you look at the description for most Microsoft certifications they recommend having a certian amount of experience before obtaining the certification. I highly recommend a post secondary education that offers several practicums so that you can have it all... education, experience, and certification.

Now some people who are comfy in their current jobs removing viruses and spyware at BillyBob's Computer & Fishing Tackle Shop might not really have a clue that in the real world competition for decent jobs is getting very tough or that some jobs actually offer the prospect of pay increases or advancement. So yes, you're going to run into people who will bad mouth a certification as worthless because they didn't need it when they were hired. Of course it's also human nature to diminish the importance of something when it requires some effort beyond what you're capable of or willing to do. In this regard I would suggest taking advice from people who have actually experienced getting a particular certification and observed how it has afected their own job search or career development. There are many people who are already employed but still making the effort to certify because they know it will result in a pay increase or advancement to a higher level in their field.

hey guys (katanasan and sab4you) i was really looking for opinions not a debate. but both of you really make good points. but i really have to agree with sab4you. but thats just my opinion. i am taking the network plus exam next week. theo nly reason why i see to take the A+ is b/c both A+and Net+ are credits toward the microsoft certification.

theICE

lol, i just got a job cause of being A+ certified and if i had not of had it the guy would of never considered me. so that tells you how important it can be.

garv221

Yup...I just switched system admin jobs with only a Network+ at the time..I would rather know my stuff than be a paper tech.

garv221 wrote:

Yup...I just switched system admin jobs with only a Network+ at the time..I would rather know my stuff than be a paper tech.

Sure. Me too. Of course having certifications doesn't mean that you are paper tech. Frankly I'd rather have both certs and experience specific to my field.

BTW, congrats on the new job Garv! That's great. Has anyone asked you yet about the position you are leaving behind?

meika004 wrote:

hey guys (katanasan and sab4you) i was really looking for opinions not a debate. but both of you really make good points. but i really have to agree with sab4you. but thats just my opinion

Frankly, there is no debate. It's really as simple as understanding the difference between these two statements:

"A+ certification is worthless"

"A+ certification is worthless to me" (or "in my case")

One of those statements is irrefutable and the other is indefensible. If you know which is which then you understand what that whole thing with Sab was really about.

What it comes down to is that I have to respect people who level headedly state that the A+ is worthless to them, since I know nothing about them and it could very well be worthless to them. On the other hand if you were to state that the A+ is worthless (period) then I don't need to know squat about you to know you're wrong.

In fact if you really read my posts then you know I have never once claimed that certifications were the most important thing or that everyone should get the A+. So Sab's not arguing or debating with me, he's trying to argue against simple logic.

theICE wrote:

lol, i just got a job cause of being A+ certified and if i had not of had it the guy would of never considered me. so that tells you how important it can be.

I had a similar experience. Getting my A+ impressed my boss and he didn't hold back from telling me so. I believe it was a significant factor in my being offered some new duties... which come with a 30% pay increase. Worthless? I think not. Especially since I'm going for my Network+ and MCSA this year.

Merciful

At my last job (2002) the owner gave everyone in the tech dept a 45 day deadline to get their A+ completed or they would be jobless. He said it would be bad for business if our team wasn't at least A+.

(Glad I got mine in 2000)

garv221

In all honesty I do not know what to think about the A+ exam....I'm up in arms about it for myself..It seems like a step backwards with information that does not interest me and that I have beat to death over the years.... Even though its an elective for my MCSA I think I might have a hard time focusing time on it when I could be covering some real specific knowledge about MS Systems...With everyone arguing about whether its a good cert, Sure its a good cert if its right for you. Me however I feel I might be a little to late. But ya never know, I can never make up my mind.

Frankly, there is no debate. It's really as simple as understanding the difference between these two statements:

"A+ certification is worthless"

"A+ certification is worthless to me" (or "in my case")

One of those statements is irrefutable and the other is indefensible. If you know which is which then you understand what that whole thing with Sab was really about.

What it comes down to is that I have to respect people who level headedly state that the A+ is worthless to them, since I know nothing about them and it could very well be worthless to them. On the other hand if you were to state that the A+ is worthless (period) then I don't need to know squat about you to know you're wrong.

In fact if you really read my posts then you know I have never once claimed that certifications were the most important thing or that everyone should get the A+. So Sab's not arguing or debating with me, he's trying to argue against simple logic.

ok i really wasnt looking for you to take the time out of your busy schedule to explain yourself. i've stated what i've stated and thats it and please sir or maam who ever you are dont insult my intellegence just b/ u assume that i dont know the difference between irrefutable and indefensible. LIKE I SAID: i agree with sab4you as far as you state so called his argument against simple logic. but i do admire the fact that you are strong on your word about A+.

viper75

It's never too late to get a Cert. like the "A+". Many people may think the A+ Cert. is a waste of time, but if you look at the job market many places are requiring it...not all, but more and more are. I was just doing a search on monster.com and dice.com to see what's out there and I ran into a few positions that require you to have the A+.

I myself am working to be a Cisco Admin(CCNP or CCIE), but after I get my CCNA hopefully within a month I will move to have a Microsoft Cert. so when I decide to look for a new job my resume tells employers that my speacialties are Routing\Switching, but I also have good knowledge of Microsoft Networks and administration.

You will never be turned down from a job because you have X Certification, but you can be turned down because you don't have X Certification.

I have 10 years of experience in the field and I have seen it happen many times.

Good Luck and I hope you change your mind about the A+ you don't want it to came back around and bite you in the rear.

garv221 wrote:

In all honesty I do not know what to think about the A+ exam....I'm up in arms about it for myself..It seems like a step backwards with information that does not interest me and that I have beat to death over the years.... Even though its an elective for my MCSA I think I might have a hard time focusing time on it when I could be covering some real specific knowledge about MS Systems...With everyone arguing about whether its a good cert, Sure its a good cert if its right for you. Me however I feel I might be a little to late. But ya never know, I can never make up my mind.

slenninger

Something, that most people have failed to mention ( or I missed it). When applying for a job most times the IT dept is not the ones doing the hiring it's the HR dept. And if the job states you need to have your A+ cert. than more than likely you will never get an interview because you will have been filtered out before the interview.

The A+ exam is tougher than most people think. If you saw the stats on the number of people that fail it the 1st time around, and its not because they don't have the knowledge to repair a computer, its because of the questions about hardware and software that they have never seen or is outdated. Most of your new techs have never seen an isa slotted motherboard or know that the older CPU chips didn't have a math coprocessor built-in.

i passed the network+ test!!!

Ricka182

congrats!