It costs $3000 dollars to be a VCP??? WTF?

pwjohnston

So I was just doing some surfing and was curious about the VCP.

VMware Education Services

So I see this:
If you are not currently a VMware Certified Professional, one of the following three courses is required:

VMware Infrastructure 3: Fast Track V3.5
Class Price*: US$ 5495 + Tax (if applicable)

VMware Infrastructure 3: Install and Configure V3.5
Class Price*: US$ 2995 + Tax (if applicable)

Then whatever the test costs!!!!

Now I’m not opposed to training, in fact I think it’s a good thing. But I’m sorry it’s a crock of sh*t, especially in this economy, to expect techs to spend that kind of money on ONE cert! Especially if we know our company won’t reimburse us for it.

MCSE (Books and tests) $1500 ish

CCNA (Books, tests, Routers) I think I can get away with this for less than or right around $1000

VCP, $3k min?

Don’t get me wrong, I want cert holders to be legit and all, but this is a little unreasonable don’t you think? That’s almost 4 months rent!

bighornsheep

pwjohnston wrote: »

VCP, $3k min?

Don’t get me wrong, I want cert holders to be legit and all, but this is a little unreasonable don’t you think? That’s almost 4 months rent!

Look on the bright side, where I live, that's more like one & a half month's rent.

You know vmware is trying to target their certification for partners. In the training budget, $3000 is a kick in the bucket.

blargoe

I think it's in part to keep away the paper certs by putting in a requirement to take the official class, which is actually a very good, in depth course. Also, I think they're trying to keep the "value" of the cert high by making it a little bit more exclusive by requiring the class.

There isn't any way one could have the level of expertise that they want for someone who carries the VCP credential by reading a book and taking the exam. About a year of experience working with the different VI features would come close to what is needed to pass the test. You could probably pass the exam with less than that plus study, but I would doubt highly that you'd find anyone to hire you to be a VMWare engineer.

RTmarc

blargoe wrote: »

I think it's in part to keep away the paper certs by putting in a requirement to take the official class, which is actually a very good, in depth course. Also, I think they're trying to keep the "value" of the cert high by making it a little bit more exclusive by requiring the class.

There isn't any way one could have the level of expertise that they want for someone who carries the VCP credential by reading a book and taking the exam. About a year of experience working with the different VI features would come close to what is needed to pass the test. You could probably pass the exam with less than that plus study, but I would doubt highly that you'd find anyone to hire you to be a VMWare engineer.

This. If more companies required authorized training prior to allowing certification everyone's certs would hold higher value.

pwjohnston

blargoe wrote: »

There isn't any way one could have the level of expertise that they want for someone who carries the VCP credential by reading a book and taking the exam. About a year of experience working with the different VI features would come close to what is needed to pass the test. You could probably pass the exam with less than that plus study, but I would doubt highly that you'd find anyone to hire you to be a VMWare engineer.

I have no doubt the class is good. The problem I'm talking about here though is that their cost for implementing the class is ridiculously high. Now in the case of Cisco the CCIE can cost you what 13K, but that's not the ENTRY level cert or training.

I'm sure most here will back that up if they've been job hunting, I know this has been an issue for me with the CCNA, is that you're not going to get a job at all doing VMWare without either A. Experience or B. Training/Cert. So essentially you either shell out the cash or hope you wander dumb luck into a situation where you get some real world VMWare experience.

(This all came up because I had a call with VMWare the other day trying to convince me to convince my company to implement it. I don't need any convincing, I know VMWare is a good product. So I was looking at what training credits could buy and well, I'm appalled.)

I know IT pays reasonably well, compared to other professions, but is it any wonder people are getting less and less education in America as the costs go through the roof?

The last girl I dated had a BA and 80k of debt for her 35K job. That sounds like a deal to me!

RTmarc

pwjohnston wrote: »

I have no doubt the class is good. The problem I'm talking about here though is that their cost for implementing the class is ridiculously high. Now in the case of Cisco the CCIE can cost you what 13K, but that's not the ENTRY level cert or training.

The VCP is not what I would consider an entry level certification. I'd put it more on the level of MCSE or CCNP.

You need to keep focus on the importance of VMware in an infrastructure. If you are planning on implementing or supporting VMware consider what it is doing for the infrastructure? Everything hinges upon proper configuration and deployment.

The course is high but the quality of training you receive plus the added benefit of this be a prerequisite for obtaining the VCP is worth it in my opinion. Imagine what would happen if you have a large number of paper-VCPs running around trying to implement this technology! Imagine the business impact of a failed VMware implementation.

Does requiring this training class guarantee success? Not really. It does increase the odds though. VMware instructors actively keep track of the participation level of each attendee. If you have someone come in and sleep through all of the classes they can (and will) make note of it and you won't get credit for the class.

Again, I say it is worth it.

Andretii

VCPs I know make over 80k - 120k and work in advanced server farms with 10k servers etc... I'd pay the damned 3k if it helps me get out of help desk or dealing with users in general

HeroPsycho

RTmarc wrote: »

The VCP is not what I would consider an entry level certification. I'd put it more on the level of MCSE or CCNP.

You need to keep focus on the importance of VMware in an infrastructure. If you are planning on implementing or supporting VMware consider what it is doing for the infrastructure? Everything hinges upon proper configuration and deployment.

The course is high but the quality of training you receive plus the added benefit of this be a prerequisite for obtaining the VCP is worth it in my opinion. Imagine what would happen if you have a large number of paper-VCPs running around trying to implement this technology! Imagine the business impact of a failed VMware implementation.

Does requiring this training class guarantee success? Not really. It does increase the odds though. VMware instructors actively keep track of the participation level of each attendee. If you have someone come in and sleep through all of the classes they can (and will) make note of it and you won't get credit for the class.

Again, I say it is worth it.

I'm a VCP. In absolutely no way is the VCP certification comparable to MCSE. It's one exam, and it's not particularly that difficult. Granted, it's tougher than a single MCSE exam, but saying it's comparable to MCSE is insulting to me as an MCSE. *Maybe* MCSA...

The reality is VMware doesn't make sure you're not sleeping in class, and it doesn't eliminate paper VCPs. It reduces the amount of VCP's overall, which *of course* will reduce the amount of paper VCPs, but I think it's craptastic to force people/companies to shell $3000 to not very effectively keep the idiots/cheaters from getting the cert. If you know your stuff, who cares if it came from a training class or you learned it elsewhere?

And knowing your crap with VMware isn't anymore important than knowing your crap as a Windows architect or engineer. PLENTY of people who don't know crap about Active Directory, Exchange, etc. running around doing crap jobs, and the world didn't come to an end, Microsoft is doing fine, etc.

FYI, I've met several paper VCPs. As many as I have paper MCSE's? Of course not. But I can't say percentage wise which is higher.

With that said, I'd happily spend the $3000 even of my own money to get VCP for my career if I had to. I disagree with the policy, but it doesn't change the fact that VMware skills are in high demand.

RTmarc

HeroPsycho wrote: »

I'm a VCP. In absolutely no way is the VCP certification comparable to MCSE. It's one exam, and it's not particularly that difficult. Granted, it's tougher than a single MCSE exam, but saying it's comparable to MCSE is insulting to me as an MCSE. *Maybe* MCSA...

The reality is VMware doesn't make sure you're not sleeping in class, and it doesn't eliminate paper VCPs. It reduces the amount of VCP's overall, which *of course* will reduce the amount of paper VCPs, but I think it's craptastic to force people/companies to shell $3000 to not very effectively keep the idiots/cheaters from getting the cert. If you know your stuff, who cares if it came from a training class or you learned it elsewhere?

And knowing your crap with VMware isn't anymore important than knowing your crap as a Windows architect or engineer. PLENTY of people who don't know crap about Active Directory, Exchange, etc. running around doing crap jobs, and the world didn't come to an end, Microsoft is doing fine, etc.

FYI, I've met several paper VCPs. As many as I have paper MCSE's? Of course not. But I can't say percentage wise which is higher.

With that said, I'd happily spend the $3000 even of my own money to get VCP for my career if I had to. I disagree with the policy, but it doesn't change the fact that VMware skills are in high demand.

I didn't think the VCP exam was the difficult either. My comparison was not on the level of difficulty to obtain but of the expansiveness of the information included as well as the degree of impact to an environment.

Paper cert-holders all eventually come out with the wash. I do believe that requiring the course sets the bar a lot higher than with someone who can go out and download the test questions and pass an exam.

pwjohnston

HeroPsycho wrote: »

I'm a VCP. In absolutely no way is the VCP certification comparable to MCSE. It's one exam, and it's not particularly that difficult. Granted, it's tougher than a single MCSE exam, but saying it's comparable to MCSE is insulting to me as an MCSE. *Maybe* MCSA...

After reading their page it seems more like VCDX = MCSE and VCP = MCP or halfway to an MCSA because it's admin not design.

VMware Education Services

HeroPsycho wrote: »

With that said, I'd happily spend the $3000 even of my own money to get VCP for my career if I had to. I disagree with the policy, but it doesn't change the fact that VMware skills are in high demand.

But again that’s only for the Admin class. If you want to take the VMware Infrastructure 3: Deploy, Secure and Analyze V3.5 I’m sure that’s another 3k and if you take them both together they’ll do you a deal and take $500 off. Pffft

Let’s not forget these are week long classes so those of us who are CONTRACT, like me, well there’s another $1000 dollars lost.

And we haven’t even got to the exam.

Andretii wrote:

VCPs I know make over 80k - 120k and work in advanced server farms with 10k servers etc...

Ya know when I started my schooling at the local college in 2000 I remember a guy telling me that he was getting his MCSE and he was going to be raking in 100k a year guaranteed. . . . . . right. This was in Kansas City so that was and still is a lot of money. I’d be surprised if he’s making 75k.

I’m not saying the training is not worth it. I really like VMWare and after talking to the rep Monday I find even more things I like about their product.

I just think realistically, some companies and schools need to get some perspective.

astorrs

pwjohnston wrote: »

After reading their page it seems more like VCDX = MCSE and VCP = MCP or halfway to an MCSA because it's admin not design.

No way. The VCDX is in line with the MCM (Microsoft Certified Master). There is currently no mid-level cert from VMware.

Personally I would expect that anyone I hired to work with ESX/vCenter would already have knowledge at the MCSE level and experience with shared storage. Not to say that someone without that couldn't pass the VCP (they could) but I would never hire someone to manage VI3 without at least 3-5 years experience in server/data center administration; and I don't see the need to hire a VCP to work with VI3 in an operational support role (since they aren't dealing with design, storage, etc and should have limited accces).

My 2¢.

P.S. The cost for me to take the class was well over $10K in course cost and billable time lost (I did the FastTrack as they weren't offering DSA near me). It paid for itself within about 6 weeks with new contracts. Everyone comes out of those classes learning something.

bertieb

HeroPsycho wrote:

With that said, I'd happily spend the $3000 even of my own money to get VCP for my career if I had to. I disagree with the policy, but it doesn't change the fact that VMware skills are in high demand.

+1
I'm fighting to get this training course from work at the moment, but if I had the cash available at the moment I'd go myself, and not look back.

nel

I agree, if it takes me 3k of my own money to get me a high end job (which usually pays the high level of wages) then imo it will pay for itself if it can do this. i cant comment on the cert as i havent touched it but there is no doubt vmware is in demand. If it can get you that kind of gig then go for it.

Turgon

pwjohnston wrote: »

So I was just doing some surfing and was curious about the VCP.

VMware Education Services

So I see this:
If you are not currently a VMware Certified Professional, one of the following three courses is required:

VMware Infrastructure 3: Fast Track V3.5
Class Price*: US$ 5495 + Tax (if applicable)

VMware Infrastructure 3: Install and Configure V3.5
Class Price*: US$ 2995 + Tax (if applicable)

Then whatever the test costs!!!!

Now I’m not opposed to training, in fact I think it’s a good thing. But I’m sorry it’s a crock of sh*t, especially in this economy, to expect techs to spend that kind of money on ONE cert! Especially if we know our company won’t reimburse us for it.

MCSE (Books and tests) $1500 ish

CCNA (Books, tests, Routers) I think I can get away with this for less than or right around $1000

VCP, $3k min?

Don’t get me wrong, I want cert holders to be legit and all, but this is a little unreasonable don’t you think? That’s almost 4 months rent!

I'm not so sure. A lot of companies now want to build out and migrate to VMware farms either for their own enterprise use or for hosting purposes. These sorts of rates are not that astronomical for corporate customers. The Novell 3 day course in OES is coming in at 2.5K and a 5 day class on Exchange 5.5 back in 1999 was 4K.

I agree that these costs are a big ask if you are self financing but classes for vendor training typically doesn't come cheap as the classrooms are usually filled by people sent by companies. If you were investing heavily in VMWare for infrastructure you would most probably want to spend the money and get some of your people trained up properly as opposed to hoping they knew what they were doing by learning it on the side with books and self test software or what have you. Hopefully some formal classroom instruction and teaching by hands on example saves on consultancy fees further down the line.

Big Jizay

It costs $3000 dollars to be a VCP??? WTF?

That’s almost 4 months rent!

Shoot, I think I need to move to Philly. I would be a happy man if $3000 was 4 months rent!

spaat

It must also be mentioned that the VCP cert is similar to CompTIA's certs in that it does not have an expiration (only the exams). And when new exams come out, you're not forced to take it to maintain your VCP status. It is only a recommendation from VMware.

astorrs

spaat wrote: »

It must also be mentioned that the VCP cert is similar to CompTIA's certs in that it does not have an expiration (only the exams). And when new exams come out, you're not forced to take it to maintain your VCP status. It is only a recommendation from VMware.

Well you are if you want to be a VCP on the current products. The full name of the current cert is "VMware Certified Professional on VI3"

srcurrie

I sympathize with you over the sticker shock. I happily had my employer pay for the class. I actually am running ESX server and have a Cluster and SAN (my first) and after the class was really confident going into the deployment.
I have not yet takedn my VCP yet but I intend to soon. I know the price is high but the class was hands-on and worth it in my opinion.
Of course the bottom line is $3000 and if you can get it.

peakbagger66

pwjohnston wrote: »

VCP, $3k min?

Don’t get me wrong, I want cert holders to be legit and all, but this is a little unreasonable don’t you think? That’s almost 4 months rent!

Or two months mortgage, LOL

[EDIT] oops posted before I finished...

Virtualization is pretty hot, and VMWare is a leader in the field. Look at the job ads in your area - if you think you can fit the bill with your experience level plus a VCP, and the pay is that much higher, it would totally be worth it to go for it with your own pocket money. By experience level, I mean if you are Help Desk or Desktop level with no server experience it's not going to do you any good. The experience base needed for a virtual infrastructure guy is a lot higher than what you encounter doing Help Desk or Desktop. IMHO.

Saying that, Microsoft also offers a virtualization cert....they've made significant in-roads against VMWare esp. with Hyper-V and its inclusion of 64 bit guest OS support. Still, I much prefer VMWare's product over it.