Disagreement...

Shiz Stain

So my parents and I were talking about which College I plan to attend and stuff. I told them I want to attend my local Community College because of the Cisco Academy there and some really good Comp Classes that involve networking.

Getting my Ass. + CCNA/CCNP/ other certs seems really good for me for the cheap amount of money I will pay to attend. I would like to switch over to a University but the thing is no matter where I look Comp Science is just a Bac. that involves Programming, which is something I dislike.

I figured since the CCNA course will last year and if I pass the test I can go out "internship hunting" during the summer and find a good internship with a good company here in St.Louis. This way I will have not only the cert but also experience in the field.

Then after my second year I will hopefully get my CCNP/ other certs and if im lucky the company I did the internship for would hire me ( but who knows what can happen in this economy and world ) or I can go out and find a job.

A Bac. Degree 4yrs isn't bad but I see it as a expensive piece of paper and plus I don't want to waste 40k for 2 years if im going to be doing programming...

So what do you guys think? You think its better I stick with the route I have planned out, or should I just finish CC and head off down to Uni to finish my bac degree?

Jordus

Shiz Stain wrote: »

So my parents and I were talking about which College I plan to attend and stuff. I told them I want to attend my local Community College because of the Cisco Academy there and some really good Comp Classes that involve networking.

Getting my Ass. + CCNA/CCNP/ other certs seems really good for me for the cheap amount of money I will pay to attend. I would like to switch over to a University but the thing is no matter where I look Comp Science is just a Bac. that involves Programming, which is something I dislike.

I figured since the CCNA course will last year and if I pass the test I can go out "internship hunting" during the summer and find a good internship with a good company here in St.Louis. This way I will have not only the cert but also experience in the field.

Then after my second year I will hopefully get my CCNP/ other certs and if im lucky the company I did the internship for would hire me ( but who knows what can happen in this economy and world ) or I can go out and find a job.

A Bac. Degree 4yrs isn't bad but I see it as a expensive piece of paper and plus I don't want to waste 40k for 2 years if im going to be doing programming...

So what do you guys think? You think its better I stick with the route I have planned out, or should I just finish CC and head off down to Uni to finish my bac degree?

Did you look into any business bachelors? A lot of times you can find them with a focus on IT management.

I think if i could get some ass, and a few Cisco certs id jump at the chance.

Plantwiz

Shiz Stain wrote: »

So what do you guys think? You think its better I stick with the route I have planned out, or should I just finish CC and head off down to Uni to finish my bac degree?

Who's paying?


College degrees while valuable are overated if one needs to go into debt to obtain it.

General rule, 'he who pays, gets the say'...so if Mom and Dad are paying you'll likely need to consider what they want. If you are paying, do what you want.

You can always work through a degree program as you have a job, but a degree will typically make you a little more desirable to interview if you are limited on experience.

Shiz Stain

Ah through business ok thanks. I will look more into it now. They said they will pay for me to go all the way, but the thing is I don't feel like having my parents "waste" 40k for some paper I wont even need since I don't intend to be a programmer. But then they are after all my parents and want me to have a good life here in the US.

jryantech

I can't believe there isn't a State University in your state that offers a Information Technology or MIS degree. Both touch on Business and IT.

No matter what you do in IT you need some programming skills to advance your career.

A Bac. Degree 4yrs isn't bad but I see it as a expensive piece of paper and plus I don't want to waste 40k for 2 years if im going to be doing programming...

As I stated you don't need to do majority programming. Only Computer Science has advanced programming courses. And if you can get away with 40k in loans with a Bachelors your with the average American. Don't think it is a waste of money because those $150-$200 monthly payments will look like nothing when your landing nice jobs.

If you want to be competitive in IT you need a degree from an accredited institution and certifications. Hands down.

Shiz Stain

Well most of the universitys in my state have computer science which focuses on programming. Im currently at St.Louis, Missouri right now. Only thing I could find was ITT tech which is complete bull lmao, dont trust it one bit.

jryantech

Shiz Stain wrote: »

Well most of the universitys in my state have computer science which focuses on programming. Im currently at St.Louis, Missouri right now. Only thing I could find was ITT tech which is complete bull lmao, dont trust it one bit.

Yeah don't go for a Trade School...

here is a list I looked up for you:

Information Technology Service Management -- Missouri State University
Computer Information Systems: Major, B.S.B.A. Degree

here is a list of your State Universities (check there websites):

* Harris-Stowe State University
* Lincoln University
* Missouri Southern State University
* Missouri State University
o Missouri State University-Mountain Grove
o Missouri State University-West Plains
* Missouri Western State University
* Northwest Missouri State University
* Southeast Missouri State University
* Truman State University
* University of Central Missouri
* University of Missouri System
o University of Missouri
o Missouri University of Science and Technology
o University of Missouri–Kansas City
o University of Missouri–St. Louis




Good luck ;]

BradleyHU

if you dont want to do programming, you could always do CIS/MIS/IS/whatever label they have for the major at the 4 year school you want to go to. some schools even have tracks within the major, like for example, Old Dominion University has a networking track for CIS majors.

the_Grinch

I'd go with the community college route. Having paid for my own school (lots of loans) if I could go back I would have gone to community college. Cheaper and it gives you a chance to see what way you really want to go. Plus, in the end, you can pretty much transfer to any four year school and you BA/BS will say <whatever school>. Good luck!

blargoe

20K a year is a lot to pay for college, surely there's a cheaper public school near you.

gcarroll357

I just recently graduated from college with a BA in MIS.....all though i did enjoy the business side of it, it still wasnt want i really wanted or expected. It did give me an insight on the business side of the IT world and a look into certain skills like SQL, networking, and programming (I'm like you, i HATE it but am seeing that i will need to at least know how do it so it can help me look like a more well rounded candidate) I will say that i was kinda disappointed with the depth of hands on work i gained. I know its not a trade school but was hoping to have the ability to take more classes in a particular area so i could get more knowledge in subject instead of intro classes. I will say that the networking and benefits of going to a major colleges did help out when meeting various people and organizations and landing me an internship. I would say to try to have a clear idea of what you want to do, where you want to go, and what u need to get there and see what options fit that the best. And if you do look into going to a college make sure you talk with counselors and current students (those in the major your looking to get into) and see how they like the program and and ask them questions about it.


PS. What part of St. Louis are you from, I use to live in Hazelwood/Florissant...

bellhead

In the corporate world, there are many doors only opened by this slip of paper....Not disagreeing with you, but there are many advantages and no disadvantages of a slip of paper.

shednik

You do realize there is a lot more to a CS degree than just programming? EVERY college program I have ever seen has had some aspect of programming in it whether it be MIS, IT, IS, CS....etc. But a solid IT/IS degree would seem to suit you better for what you want.

Daniel333

Yeah, programming is boring. I wouldn't do it either. I tried it... wasted 3 years of my life.

I wont tell you what to do, but if you know you are not going to be able to make something like programming your passion, don't do it.

brad-

My college was the same...I had to do programming for a CIS/IT degree, and I hated it too.

If I had to do it over again, I would have majored in something like Communication and gotten my certs while in college.

Be warned though, the govt jobs I applied for in the past specified CIS type degrees (even though the job work didnt require programming). HR people are dumb.

itdaddy

Plantwiz

I have to disagree with you my friend..College degree no matter what it is is extremely valuable. Do I think it is necesarry to be good at your job? Do I think it is the nature of the career beast. YES! Look at the job market.
So many jobs require a 4 year degree. BS in computer Science is a very good degree. But I have seen guys get masters in ENglish but program in java or javascript and are world renown engineers in their field. Serious.

If you are young, I say get your college degree no matter how boring or how slow. You will be 42 like me and finishing it. And at 42 it sucks big time finishing a BS degree. SUCKS no freaking life. Do it while you are young. Have your stupid party till you puke stage till 20 or 21 and the get your crap together and finish that boring college stuff. Take cisco academny. And to get a CCNP in 1 year without experience and going to school full-time. I would like to see you do it unless it is part of your classes then yes you might but 1 year is tough without handso on and only a ccna under your belt..

Go to school a 2 year which is cheaper and the classes transfer o a 4 yeard do your 4 year. you do not have to do BS in CS to be in IT you can
get your BS say in CIS which is less intensive maybe..Or get it a BS in IT
BS in IT is not as abstract as CS. I know first hand. But a BS in IT is as goood for the most part as a BS in CS depends on job but most jobs would take it the same...words from the old fart.

Vogon Poet

The college degree is often the first weeder-outer that hiring officials use. It may or may not be applicable to the job, and yes it's expensive to pay for four years anywhere you go. Many people believe that it proves you are educated, conversant in many topics, and (last, but not least) promotable to hirer positions in the future - maybe management. It will get your foot in the door in many cases. Get a degree. Get it in anything.
Also consider that universities have good job seeking resources as well as help with resumes, interviewing, etc. I'm sure that there are many graduates of Univ. of Missouri in your area. If looking to hire help, they will look favorably on alumni.

zen master

Get the four year BSc. It will allow you to get into graduate programs etc, and is more highly valued by employers. Your parents are right. Of course this is only important if you're interested in some other "pieces of paper", ones with dead presidents on them.

sagewalkinthere

Shiz, I see where you're coming from. I was a similar situation- I didn't want to waste the time or money in a four year school like my older brother did. I got an Associate's degree and immediately found a job. However, two years later, I have one cert and an associate's degree, and my older brother has his bachelor's degree and is making almost twice as much as I am.


If I could do it over again, I would:

1. Go to community college for first two years.
2. While going to a cc, I would ALSO work on some certs. A+, Net+, MCP.
3. Then I'd transfer to a four year school, and finish off my Bacherlor's in something like information technology or business and IT or MIS. (not CS- like you I hate programming)
4. During the summers while going to school I would get an internship/part time job in computers- PC lab at school, or a small PC repair shop, or maybe even a position at a big company, just to get experiance.

I would graduate in four years with an BS, AAS, MCP, A+ and Network+, and some experiance. That would look really impressive on your resume, and make you a good candidate for hiring.

Right now I'm just working on some more certs- I'm getting married in four months and have to save money. My fiance is going to a private college and it's really expensive, so we can't both go to college at the same time. I sort of wish I had finished off my 4 year degree earlier. But I'll just have to work extra hard to make myself a better employee than those other guys. And I wouldn't trade getting married for anything.

girt81

If you're in St. Louis and wouldn't mind going out of state look at the bachelors program here.

TSM Bachelor of Science Program

It's about 3.5 hours from St Louis, though they have an online version of the degree as well. The program has some business core classes, but the meat of it is networking, system administration, and security.

drainey

As a 38 year old, I'm going with Sage and ITDaddy on this one. Get the degree you'll never regret it. But you might (and probably will) regret not getting it. Right now you are in a perfect position. Do the Community College, get a few certs, then move on to a 4 year degree. In the end you have both a degree and a few certs, plus some hands on from school and if works out perhaps some experience from a part time job as well. Puts you way in front of the pack.

You can get a job without the BS degree but you will find that certain doors, jobs, etc. will be closed to you without it. It can also be the sole reason you get a better salary than you would otherwise be offered.

Just my .02

jryantech

sagewalkinthere wrote: »

[*]Go to community college for first two years.
[*]While going to a cc, I would ALSO work on some certs. A+, Net+, MCP.
[*]Then I'd transfer to a four year school, and finish off my Bacherlor's in something like information technology or business and IT or MIS. (not CS- like you I hate programming)
[*]During the summers while going to school I would get an internship/part time job in computers- PC lab at school, or a small PC repair shop, or maybe even a position at a big company, just to get experiance.

Welcome to my life.

I am 20 years old got one more semester of community college. Planning on having my Associatesd Degree, A+, N+ and MCDST certs going into the University. From there I plan on getting out of the University with a Bachelors, SCJP and hopefully one or two other certifications.

I should have been done with the community college 2 semester ago but I just recently got on the ball and became an adult :]

I am just afraid turning 21 will set me back a bit... haha

LBC90805

Jordus wrote: »

Did you look into any business bachelors? A lot of times you can find them with a focus on IT management.

I think if i could get some ass, and a few Cisco certs id jump at the chance.

Yup, Bachelors of Science, Business Admin, MIS from a real school.

Shiz Stain

Sorry it took a while for me to respond, but thanks everyone for the help and feedback.

I will head off to community college and transfer to a 4yr since a degree lasts forever and doesn't expire haha. I will take advantage of there classes and plus reading through the classes and stuff I have a chance to do an internship.

I asked the system admin at my school whom I do an internship with and she told me that its best to go to CC and finish with those nice Cisco Certs. and other Certs. they offer and then switch into a Uni because a 4yr is a good thing to have if I want to get into higher positions at work (like some people have already told me here ^^).

I was thinking maybe this could work out but who knows what the future holds, since I do any internship at my school already once I obtain the CCNA I will do a summer internship with the school district and ask if their Cisco Techs. need any help and if I could go around with them and help them and start an internship with them. But like I said before who knows what the future holds.

So everyone thanks for the help and feedback, I will go to my local CC and transfer to a good Uni that has what I want and am looking for.

manny355

I agree with the majority of post here...getting a degree is well worth it.

Speaking from my own experience, I have a Bachelors that would be considered a business degree with an IT focus...I did take those programming classes and disliked them just like the other networking dudes here...lol...anyway...I feel more confident in my oportunities having a bachelors degree as well as a few certifications under my belt.

Ultimately its based on your specific situation...but generally speaking...a degree can't hurt.

In an extreme situation...you could probably use the degree to launch yourself into another career and will be further along in that career than you would if you didn't have a degree.

Shiz Stain

I have been reading around and asking counselor and teachers at my school about the decision I am making.

I know for a fact I don't want to go straight into a Uni because I don't have that kind of cash so I was thinking Community College or a Technical College.

Technical College - yes I know some people dislike them, but this technical college is VERY VERY well respected around my city and people know it very well. They will teach you and make sure you learn everything. The school is very "career path" focused depending on what you are going to. I went to it on an open house and the stuff looked 100% up to date with the latest technology and stuff. So I asked them why is this? They said they are a non-profit school so everything they get goes to improve the classes so the students get more experience. The school does have a 98% job placement and they will help you get the job. They also have lifetime job placement there, and from what I have heard from my teachers/counselors they DO mean it and their not joking. Also one of my teachers told me that they do help you get your foot in the door, but not just any door a good door.

Only thing I am personally concerned about is this, they are accredited by The Higher Learning Commission and is a member of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools. SO I think the credits will transfer to a Uni but not sure. I have to make an appointment and ask questions. Another drawback is the tuition, total for 1 yr books, learning, tests = $15,000. I am sure FAFSA will pay off some and the rest I will pay off.

My second decision is Community College, the credits will transfer, its cheap, and they have a Cisco Academy there, where you can earn your CCNA and CCNP, and some other Cisco Certs. They also do MS Server 2008 , maybe still 2003 but not sure.

So right now I am stuck between these to choices, they both are close where I live, so transportation is not a problem. I want to get the "most bang for my buck", so what are everyone's opinions/suggestions about this?

I plan to meet with both reps at the schools and ask them questions like

Whats the total tuition cost?
Can I transfer over to a 4yr Uni.
Whats the difference between school A over B, like for example what sets your classes aside from the those classes offered at the other school.

*I hear you have a 98% job placement rate and also lifetime job placement, is this just for the state or another state as well?


What would be some other good questions to ask both schools, since I can't think of any at the moment.

Forsaken_GA

The only caveat to going to community college is to make sure your credits will transfer. In state schools tend to waffle when it comes to taking transfer credit from other in state schools. They want your money, and they want it for four years. You'd probably have better luck in getting most of your credit to transfer to an out of state school.

Talk to the admissions people at your community college, and ask them which local universities have been willing to take their credit at face value and not make people repeat courses. I guarantee you they've been asked that question before.

Shiz Stain

The community college website I was looking at had a list of Universities in the state that accepted the credits, depending on what you want to major in and the classes required to go to the Uni so it passes, all you have to do is tell your counselor/admissions rep ahead of time.

apd123

Only read the first post but the CCNA should not take a year if you have no job/school responsibilities and the mental capacity to belong in college. You need one month, maybe three books, and less $ than one college class worth of Cisco gear. Then you can spend that year doing the CCNP classes. Hopefully you are already there and I get harshly ridiculed for posting this after the fact.