Microsoft expanding XPs life... more and more

jryantech

Microsoft: HP Gets Another Year of XP - Tom's Hardware

Seems Microsoft on the Business and Personal side is really not going to shift away from XP until Windows 7 is released. (If it wasn't obvious enough)

I just think Microsoft should scrap all Vista Certifications and refund some money...

I am not certified in Vista but I would like to know if you are.. And if you are how has it helped you and are you currently in a position supporting Vista?

dynamik

I work with a decent number of Vista machines, and I don't have any bad feelings about getting my Vista cert.

I think it's fairly typical for company's to upgrade every-other release. There are a lot of other costs, such as training and education, in addition to the cost of the software itself. This doesn't seem like anything out of the ordinary.

brad-

jryantech wrote: »

I am not certified in Vista but I would like to know if you are.. And if you are how has it helped you and are you currently in a position supporting Vista?

70-621, i dont support Vista, thought I might have to one day. I bought a Vista laptop specifically to help study for this cert.

IMHO, a total waste if you already have an XP cert. It is good for the resume though to let people know you're staying current.

HeroPsycho

jryantech wrote: »

Microsoft: HP Gets Another Year of XP - Tom's Hardware

Seems Microsoft on the Business and Personal side is really not going to shift away from XP until Windows 7 is released. (If it wasn't obvious enough)

I just think Microsoft should scrap all Vista Certifications and refund some money...

I am not certified in Vista but I would like to know if you are.. And if you are how has it helped you and are you currently in a position supporting Vista?

I got the Vista cert just to get MCITP: Enterprise Administrator. Dunno how it will benefit my career quite yet. We'll see.

Jordus

I laugh in the face of anyone who thinks learning/getting certed on Vista is a waste of time.

Microsofts technologies are progressive and there was a LOT of stuff in Vista that will be directly in or evolve slightly in Windows 7.

The ignorant IT Pros that ignored Vista will likely be unprepared when it comes to supporting Windows 7 and later versions.

I have the MCITP:EST cred, and dont regret it ONE bit. I will simply upgrade it when the time comes, and it will be easier because I am already well versed on the technologies that will be included in Windows 7.

someeh

[QUOTE=Jordus;304813

The ignorant IT Pros that ignored Vista will likely be unprepared when it comes to supporting Windows 7 and later versions..[/QUOTE]

What is so ignorant about IT pros ignoring Vista? Yes, Vista has alot of functionality but quite buggy. It's been out almost 2 years or a little over and already on it's 2nd service pack!!!
XP has been on the scene since 02 and 7 years later only has 3 service packs. I highly disagree with your comment about being unprepared when it comes to supporting windows 7. I use Vista at home at times and sometimes at the office and honestly to me it's just alot of eye candy and resource comsuming.
I don't blame companies for not upgrading to Vista and sticking with XP. My company still runs XP with no problems til this day.
just my .02

qwertyiop

I might go for the Vista cert but im not a huge fan of Vista, maybe its just because I was a early adopter and the computer that i bought came with Vista on it and could barley run it. I played around with the Vista beta's and release candidates and believe that those where better then the final release.

gorebrush

Did 70-620 over a year ago. I didn't pay for the exam though.

HeroPsycho

someeh wrote: »

What is so ignorant about IT pros ignoring Vista? Yes, Vista has alot of functionality but quite buggy. It's been out almost 2 years or a little over and already on it's 2nd service pack!!!
XP has been on the scene since 02 and 7 years later only has 3 service packs. I highly disagree with your comment about being unprepared when it comes to supporting windows 7. I use Vista at home at times and sometimes at the office and honestly to me it's just alot of eye candy and resource comsuming.
I don't blame companies for not upgrading to Vista and sticking with XP. My company still runs XP with no problems til this day.
just my .02

Aside from slow file copies which was resolved in SP1, haven't experienced a single bug, so the claim that it's buggy compared to other versions of Windows doesn't hold water.

How many service packs there are in a time period has absolutely no bearing on how buggy the product is. Service Packs are simply to rollup hotfixes to make it easier to install them over time in most cases. Microsoft should have released several more service packs in XP than they did. And even by that logic Vista was released in 2006 and still hasn't had SP2 completely released. XP came out in 2001, and by 2004, XP SP2 was released (which btw was released because so many XP machines were getting routinely pwned left and right and was a major deviation of what service packs were because is made numerous significant changes to the OS, the only major compliants that SP1 for Vista addressed were slow file copy and some performance issues, neither of which were a big deal), so your flawed logic doesn't even hold up.

I think people have horrible memories of prior versions of Windows when they talk about Vista being a crap taco of an OS.

Yes, and I don't blame any company for not upgrading to the absolute newest OS if there's no business case to do it.

bertieb

I initially certified in Vista because I knew I'd need it for the Enterprise Administrator path. The exam sucked and I found the material pretty boring because I'm not that into client OS' but I did learn a few things that genuinely helped when I was initially presented with Server 2008 (Install process/UAC and so on).

I like Vista. I like XP too. I even liked 2000 Pro & NT4 Workstation. Thinking about it, the only MS based OS (if you can call it that, I never had it stable enough so I viewed it as a Non-Operating System) that I really despised was/is Windows ManyErrors.

It's not that uncommon for businesses to skip out a generation. In my place of work we went from NT4 to XP because at the time they had no genuine business case to upgrade.

In any case, my experiences with the beta versions of Windows 7 is that it's just building on many of the features found in Vista so I'm glad to have certified. The only thing I didn't like about completing the Vista MCTS, was finding out the certificates were designed by a 3yr old child.

jryantech

Jordus wrote: »

I laugh in the face of anyone who thinks learning/getting certed on Vista is a waste of time.

I am not saying it is a waste of time and I don't even understand the reasoning behind saying something like that.. I was asking who was and how/if it helped them.

Everyone knows Windows XP is more popular then Vista and is used more widely then Vista. With more and more companies saying they are going to stick with Windows XP until Windows 7, I think Vista certifications have become to lose value and I wanted peoples opinon on it.

HeroPsycho

I don't think it would have made a hill of beans difference if my MCSE 2000/2003 client cert was 2000 or XP (It ended up being XP). What matters is I have MCSE. I think MCITP: EA is similar.

dynamik

I thought bashing Vista was like so totally last year and stuff...

HeroPsycho

dynamik wrote: »

I thought bashing Vista was like so totally last year and stuff...

Naw, that's not going out of style.

HeroPsycho

Jordus wrote: »

The ignorant IT Pros that ignored Vista will likely be unprepared when it comes to supporting Windows 7 and later versions.

I have the MCITP:EST cred, and dont regret it ONE bit. I will simply upgrade it when the time comes, and it will be easier because I am already well versed on the technologies that will be included in Windows 7.

I meant to comment on this, too. There are plenty of IT pros who ignored getting certified on Vista for good reason. The reality is I'd have never gotten certified on it if it wasn't a requirement for MCITP: Enterprise Administrator.

I simply don't touch many desktops.

I'd trade my MCITP: EA for a good storage cert any day of the week. It's all about where your focus is.

And if you can't learn Windows 7 because you didn't learn Vista, something is wrong with you. Granted, knowing Vista will give you a leg up, but come on. The concepts aren't rocket science...

blargoe

I'm one of those ignoramuses that has completely ignored Vista. We're not ready to move from XP at my company and I have too many other irons in the fire to begin working on ITP:EA just yet. There isn't much incentive for us to focus on Vista, so we're not.

By the time it's time to move on Win7 will have been out there for a little while. I can almost promise you, MS will have resources out there to make sure people can easily upgrade their skills from XP to Win7. The market will demand it.

Claymoore

I took 620 only because it was required for the MCITP:EA. I think the test was focused on home use rather than business use and was not the best choice for an enterprise-level certification. I imagine that when Win7 is released you will be able to substitute that cert for the ITP:EA client requirement.

I'm looking forward to Win7 becasue of the opportunities for deployment projects (especially VDI) that will keep me employed and billable. I don't care about the marketing hype, I've got bills to pay.

Jordus

HeroPsycho wrote: »

I meant to comment on this, too. There are plenty of IT pros who ignored getting certified on Vista for good reason. The reality is I'd have never gotten certified on it if it wasn't a requirement for MCITP: Enterprise Administrator.

I simply don't touch many desktops.

I'd trade my MCITP: EA for a good storage cert any day of the week. It's all about where your focus is.

And if you can't learn Windows 7 because you didn't learn Vista, something is wrong with you. Granted, knowing Vista will give you a leg up, but come on. The concepts aren't rocket science...

No, they arent rocket science. But a lot does tie back into Server 2008 and comes in handy when learning those technologies.

Anyone who makes the (bad) judgement of totally skipping a technology to learn is hindering their ability to pick up the next generation more quickly.

If companys move to Windows 7 straight from XP, thats fine...but keep in mind that the new features of 7 (UAC, deployment technologies, new GPOs, IPSEC features, new TCP/IP stacks and networking layouts, etC) all debuted in Vista, and therefore increases the time it will take for those administrators/techs to get up to speed.

You also need to remember that not everyone in IT is a systems admin/engineer and some people do focus on desktop work.

I bet that MCSE's on Windows NT 4 could walk right into Server 2003 and swing, right?

Jordus

jryantech wrote: »

I am not saying it is a waste of time and I don't even understand the reasoning behind saying something like that.. I was asking who was and how/if it helped them.

Everyone knows Windows XP is more popular then Vista and is used more widely then Vista. With more and more companies saying they are going to stick with Windows XP until Windows 7, I think Vista certifications have become to lose value and I wanted peoples opinon on it.

They havnt lost value because those certed on Vista know technology that will be more relevant in the near future than those certed on XP.

The features and technology in Vist will contiune to progress and grow in 7, and being 2 steps behind everyone else in trying to learn that is only going to hurt, not help.

One doesnt necessarily have to be CERTED in vista, but knowing it is beneficial.

EDIT: I think its funny that a person who is questioning Vista certs is still pursuing the MCDST which is often rated as a pretty much worthless certification. LOL

dynamik

You're not recognizing that putting the time into Vista when you don't use it wastes a lot of time up-front. Overall, I'll probably put the same amount of time into learning Vista/Windows 7 as someone who goes straight to Windows 7 from XP. I really don't see one as being beneficial over another, and it truly seems circumstantial. If you're not going to use Vista, why not spend your time doing things like delving into the resource kits and SysInternals tools? There's more to IT than simply keeping current with certs.

jryantech

Jordus wrote: »

They havnt lost value because those certed on Vista know technology that will be more relevant in the near future than those certed on XP.

The features and technology in Vist will contiune to progress and grow in 7, and being 2 steps behind everyone else in trying to learn that is only going to hurt, not help.

One doesnt necessarily have to be CERTED in vista, but knowing it is beneficial.

EDIT: I think its funny that a person who is questioning Vista certs is still pursuing the MCDST which is often rated as a pretty much worthless certification. LOL

I don't get you and some of the guys on these forums. I try to ask a simple question "if you are certified in Vista how has it helped you and are you currently in a position supporting Vista?" and you get all defensive.

My Job is actually paying for me to get the MCDST, so I am getting it. I also believe having the MCDST is better than having the 70-620.

You obviously aren't happy with Vista's success.

I'm sorry some of you feel I am attacking Vista and think I am saying it is pointless to be Vista certified. I was just asking who has jobs working with Vista and has an employer looked at your resume and said "I see your Vista certified".

I feel like I'm talking to the Extreme Right-Wing Vista people, it's kind of like politics. Where are the Extreme Left-Wing Mac users at??

Jordus

dynamik wrote: »

You're not recognizing that putting the time into Vista when you don't use it wastes a lot of time up-front. Overall, I'll probably put the same amount of time into learning Vista/Windows 7 as someone who goes straight to Windows 7 from XP. I really don't see one as being beneficial over another, and it truly seems circumstantial. If you're not going to use Vista, why not spend your time doing things like delving into the resource kits and SysInternals tools? There's more to IT than simply keeping current with certs.

Thats why i said you dont have to necessarily get certed on every little thing.

But not keeping up with mainstream products is ignorant, in my opninion.

I do support Vista at work, I deployed a 500 machine site of all Vista machines. Im not dissatisfied with the OS at all, just with those who dont give it a fair shot.

I do know that my upgrade to the 7 certs will be shorter and abridged due to my previous exposure and knowledge of Vista. Whereas a knowledge of XP would only be about half as useful there.

HeroPsycho

Jordus wrote: »

They havnt lost value because those certed on Vista know technology that will be more relevant in the near future than those certed on XP.

The features and technology in Vist will contiune to progress and grow in 7, and being 2 steps behind everyone else in trying to learn that is only going to hurt, not help.

One doesnt necessarily have to be CERTED in vista, but knowing it is beneficial.

EDIT: I think its funny that a person who is questioning Vista certs is still pursuing the MCDST which is often rated as a pretty much worthless certification. LOL

It would be nice to be certified in everything.

Again, I'd trade my entire MCITP for a good storage cert.

And stop belittling other people's certs.

Jordus

HeroPsycho wrote: »

It would be nice to be certified in everything.

Again, I'd trade my entire MCITP for a good storage cert.

And stop belittling other people's certs.

Then go get a storage cert and quit complaining.

And dont tell me to quit belittling other peoples certs when the OP said that Vista certs are worthless and the people who have them should be refunded.

Besides, I didnt belittle his cert, im simply stating that ive read several different articles stating that the MCDST was worth very little.

HeroPsycho

Jordus wrote: »

Thats why i said you dont have to necessarily get certed on every little thing.

But not keeping up with mainstream products is ignorant, in my opninion.

The guy who mentored me into IT hasn't gotten an update for his MCSE in NT4. He's not ignorant. He's kicking my tail in salary because he went into storage and has every EMC, Brocade, and Hitachi cert under the sun.

HeroPsycho

Jordus wrote: »

Then go get a storage cert and quit complaining.

And dont tell me to quit belittling other peoples certs when the OP said that Vista certs are worthless and the people who have them should be refunded.

Besides, I didnt belittle his cert, im simply stating that ive read several different articles stating that the MCDST was worth very little.

I'm not complaining. I'm also not telling people they're ignorant if they don't get a Vista cert.

Jordus

HeroPsycho wrote: »

I'm not complaining. I'm also not telling people they're ignorant if they don't get a Vista cert.

Neither am I. I said it would be ignorant to not atleast LEARN it.

I dont expect everyone to have the money to drop 125$ on every little thing or the time to take the exam. I do expect an IT Pro thats supporting Windows systems to keep up to date on Windows systems.

People often forget one of the main responsibilities of being an IT pro. You arent there to tell your employer what they should use based on what you like and dislike, you are there to tell them what to use based on what best meets their needs. Sometimes its Vista, Often times its XP, very rarely its OSX. Whatever the need, if someone is going to work that job they need the education to make a proper recommendation.

HeroPsycho

Jordus wrote: »

Neither am I. I said it would be ignorant to not atleast LEARN it.

Again, that's ignorant. Plenty of good reasons to not learn Vista, such as learning something else that furthers your career better.

A SAN/storage engineer who is not running Vista on their personal or work computers has very little reason to learn or get certified in it.

In an ideal world, we'd all learn everything. The reality is you can't learn everything.

Stop assuming what you think is best for you is best for everyone, because it's not. You have no authority on what is best for other people's careers.

dynamik

In addition to spending your time learning something more valuable, it seems like a waste to put time into something you're not using. If you're an XP shop, and you know you're skipping Vista and waiting until Windows 7, why not focus on developing a higher proficiency with XP? Do you really know anyone who is going to have a problem making a transition from XP to 7? If you don't learn about UAC in Vista, is it going to be an enigma in 7?

Jordus

HeroPsycho wrote: »

Again, that's ignorant. Plenty of good reasons to not learn Vista, such as learning something else that furthers your career better.

A SAN/storage engineer who is not running Vista on their personal or work computers has very little reason to learn or get certified in it.

In an ideal world, we'd all learn everything. The reality is you can't learn everything.

Stop assuming what you think is best for you is best for everyone, because it's not. You have no authority on what is best for other people's careers.

At least do me the courtesy of reading my replies in their entirety instead of just replying for the sake of argument.

1. I never said they had to get certified on everything.

2. I specified that people working on windows systems should be well versed in windows systems. If they want to learn every 4th iteration of the OS, I think that makes them a poor windows tech.

msteinhilber

Jordus wrote: »

At least do me the courtesy of reading my replies in their entirety instead of just replying for the sake of argument.

1. I never said they had to get certified on everything.

2. I specified that people working on windows systems should be well versed in windows systems. If they want to learn every 4th iteration of the OS, I think that makes them a poor windows tech.

He didn't use certified in his response, he said learn. I think he did read your post, or he would continue to insist that you are saying everybody should certify in Vista - but he didn't, he argued they do not need to learn Vista if they do not have a need to.

I've been in job sites for my side biz that are strictly XP shops, some maybe with some 2000 clients. For a person in that role, they are just as proficient of a Windows tech even if they were unaware of Vista's existence. For regular job, we are in an environment where our real estate agents often bring their own machines so we have exposure to 2000/XP/Vista. In my case, it makes sense to know about Vista fairly well since I am exposed to it. It does in the end all come down to what you support, not being aware of what you do not support does not make you a bad tech, it just makes you a tech who is not trained in technologies that they do not support at all.