Cheap VMWare course?

petedude

Anyone know of a "cheap" official VMWare course available, preferably online? All the ones I've found so far have been in the $2000-3000 range. . .

tiersten

Don't think there is a cheap one since they all must be done via VMware.

blargoe

There is only one kind of official VMWare Course, and it's the $3000 kind. Even online is still expensive.

bwcarty

Yeah, if you want to be eligible for VCP, it's $3000 for the official course. If you just want to learn VI:3, CBTNuggets or something similar may be worth a look.

jibbajabba

Yepp .. no way to get it cheaper .. even learning center like IBM have to charge the official price unless you know someone inside of IBM or HP etc.

petedude

Gomjaba wrote: »

Yepp .. no way to get it cheaper .. even learning center like IBM have to charge the official price unless you know someone inside of IBM or HP etc.

Bummer. Maybe I should just take the MS virtualization exams, then. . .

jibbajabba

petedude wrote: »

Bummer. Maybe I should just take the MS virtualization exams, then. . .

Mmmm... mind you, you can still take the exam and then wait until you got the money for the course. You can still take / pass the exam but you cannot call yourself VCP - but at least the hard part would be over

Btw.. with vSphere around the corner might be worth waiting

JDMurray

There's a bunch of VMWare videos on YouTube and other such media outlets.

Jordus

I think its BS that you have to pay 3000$ for a class just to be able to be certified, even if you can pass the test anyway.

I hope MS knocks vmware right out of the market.

astorrs

I agree the course requirement is a lot to ask- especially in light of the economy- but I can't disagree with you more about Microsoft knocking VMware off. That would be like everyone having to drive SmartCars... It meets the needs of some, but lacks a lot of the "features" of the others.

P.S. Anyone considering the I&C course from VMware might want to hold off until the version 4.0 course is offerred after RTM of vSphere.

tiersten

Jordus wrote: »

I think its BS that you have to pay 3000$ for a class just to be able to be certified, even if you can pass the test anyway.

VMware want to ensure that people aren't just dumping the exam.

Jordus wrote: »

I hope MS knocks vmware right out of the market.

VMware isn't forcing you to use ESX or be certified. Same as Microsoft isn't forcing you to use Hyper-V or be certified to use it.

dynamik

tiersten wrote: »

VMware want to ensure that people aren't just dumping the exam.

It wouldn't surprise me if a few people from my course had to resort to ****...

tiersten

dynamik wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me if a few people from my course had to resort to ****...

True but after the course they've in theory seen and used ESX properly at least once. Some knowledge from the course has hopefully sunk in

Jordus

tiersten wrote: »

True but after the course they've in theory seen and used ESX properly at least once. Some knowledge from the course has hopefully sunk in

Unfortunately thats not going to prevent dumping. Nothing will. The only thing it solves is the need for vmware to have money in its pocket.

If they think i need to pay them 3 grand to say i can use their products then they are sadly mistaken.

The ONLY people that will be able to take those courses are those who are getting it paid for by work.

BTW i took a server 2008 class, provided by work, and one of my coworkers in there with me couldnt install WDS after the class was over. He asked if i had the CD to install it from....

kalebksp

Jordus wrote: »

Unfortunately thats not going to prevent dumping. Nothing will. The only thing it solves is the need for vmware to have money in its pocket.

If they think i need to pay them 3 grand to say i can use their products then they are sadly mistaken.

The ONLY people that will be able to take those courses are those who are getting it paid for by work.

BTW i took a server 2008 class, provided by work, and one of my coworkers in there with me couldnt install WDS after the class was over. He asked if i had the CD to install it from....

Seeing as most certifications are greatly degraded because people **** them I don't hold it against VMware to try and make sure that theirs isn't drug down to the level of most others. Most IT training is marketed towards companies, not individuals, so I really doubt anyone is expecting you to pay $3000 for the training.

blargoe

Jordus wrote: »

Unfortunately thats not going to prevent dumping. Nothing will. The only thing it solves is the need for vmware to have money in its pocket.

If they think i need to pay them 3 grand to say i can use their products then they are sadly mistaken.

The ONLY people that will be able to take those courses are those who are getting it paid for by work.

BTW i took a server 2008 class, provided by work, and one of my coworkers in there with me couldnt install WDS after the class was over. He asked if i had the CD to install it from....

I think VMWare counts on this actually, I think they don't want it to be so easy to get the letters so the value of it remains relatively high for a while. Also, taking the class provides some level of quality assurance that one of their guys had a hand in transferring knowledge. If you disagree with that in principle, then by all means take the MS exam instead.

The course requirement doesn't by itself stop dumping, but it certainly does reduce it implicitly. Purveyors of illicit **** materials are going to target the certs for which people are likely to meet requirements. For MS and Cisco, all you gotta do is pass a test. There are people that take a VMWare official course that would use and/or need **** to pass the test (usually, these people really had no business being in the course in the first place). However, due to the cost of the course, and the lower number of people that attend the class (compared to the # of people taking MS and Cisco and CompTIA exams), there are much fewer VCP candidates, and there are fewer ****. Not to mention the people taking the course are normally doing so with the support of their company and have legitimate resources to use to supplement, and aren't as likely to feel they "need" ****.

JDMurray

Jordus wrote: »

If they think i need to pay them 3 grand to say i can use their products then they are sadly mistaken.

It is very likely that VMWare's marketing department believes that their target customers for training and certifications are professional organizations and not individual techs and hobbyists. A typical organization that needs VMWare products for operation will pay that kind of money for training. The demand for high-dollar training and certs makes VMWare's products appear to be more valuable and desirable. Therefore, VMWare may see no advantage in offering "cheap certs" and may regard such a thing as actually harmful to their brand value.

jibbajabba

JDMurray wrote: »

It is very likely that VMWare's marketing department believes that their target customers for training and certifications are professional organizations and not individual techs and hobbyists. A typical organization that needs VMWare products for operation will pay that kind of money for training. The demand for high-dollar training and certs makes VMWare's products appear to be more valuable and desirable. Therefore, VMWare may see no advantage in offering "cheap certs" and may regard such a thing as actually harmful to their brand value.

As in my case .. My company offered virtual machines for a long time and also lost business because the owner had to say "no, we don't have certified staff"... I was hired who worked with ESX for years .. next thing you know - he booked course and hotel

So yes, if a company sees the benefits, they will pay..

Like I said earlier - if you really want the exam, you don't NEED the course right away... A colleague goes for the same route now .. He wants a VCP as well but the owner isn't so convinced that he is actually going for it (he kinda starts everything but doesn't finish anything) .. So .. that colleague studied ANYWAY .. went for the exam .. PASSED .. and now "all" the company had to do is sending him to the course to get another VCP (and to qualify as "SPLA" partner). ..

Jordus

Well in the next couple-three years MS will move to an all virtual lab based test environment. This will basically take almost all the "bite" out of dumpers. It would be difficult to fake all the virtual labs, doing it exactly as you have to do it in real life, and actually not know it (or not learn it along the way)

Once this happens, i dont see MS charging 3000$ per test.

Here is my REAL problem with this. A lot of companies want people who specialize in VMware products to work for them, and as such require a VCP. Which effectively eliminates anyone as a possible candidate unless they had their current employer pony up the cash for it.

tiersten

Jordus wrote: »

Well in the next couple-three years MS will move to an all virtual lab based test environment. This will basically take almost all the "bite" out of dumpers. It would be difficult to fake all the virtual labs, doing it exactly as you have to do it in real life, and actually not know it (or not learn it along the way)

I've never done any Microsoft certs but Cisco exams have questions and sims. People who use **** manage to pass so they must be remembering the exact steps necessary to complete the objectives on the sims. They don't understand why they're typing in those commands though. Unless they can make the question/lab bank incredibly large they're not going to stop dumping.

Jordus wrote: »

Here is my REAL problem with this. A lot of companies want people who specialize in VMware products to work for them, and as such require a VCP. Which effectively eliminates anyone as a possible candidate unless they had their current employer pony up the cash for it.

If those companies are insisting that you have a VCP to work there then they'll also be wanting proper experience of ESX in a business environment. You can't just turn up with a VCP certificate + zero experience and go yeah lemme in. The only place you're going to be getting proper ESX experience is at another company and hopefully they'll be paying for your VCP.

Jordus

tiersten wrote: »

I've never done any Microsoft certs but Cisco exams have questions and sims. People who use **** manage to pass so they must be remembering the exact steps necessary to complete the objectives on the sims. They don't understand why they're typing in those commands though. Unless they can make the question/lab bank incredibly large they're not going to stop dumping..

They arent just sims, they are moving to an entirely virtual lab setting in teh future. Basically running an ACTUAL machine, with a test engine in the background that tallies up how/what you do.

tiersten wrote: »

If those companies are insisting that you have a VCP to work there then they'll also be wanting proper experience of ESX in a business environment. You can't just turn up with a VCP certificate + zero experience and go yeah lemme in. The only place you're going to be getting proper ESX experience is at another company and hopefully they'll be paying for your VCP.

If i was a manager at a company and just blew 3 grand on someone to get a certification and they ran off to another company, id probably be suing for my money back.

kalebksp

Jordus wrote: »

They arent just sims, they are moving to an entirely virtual lab setting in teh future. Basically running an ACTUAL machine, with a test engine in the background that tallies up how/what you do.

How does that stop anyone from cheating more so than sims already do?

Jordus wrote: »

If i was a manager at a company and just blew 3 grand on someone to get a certification and they ran off to another company, id probably be suing for my money back.

That's why some companies make you sign an agreement when you do training that it has to be paid back if you leave too soon after the training.

Jordus

kalebksp wrote: »

How does that stop anyone from cheating more so than sims already do?

It wouldnt, entirely.

But the sims are locked out to where you can only go into the correct menus, or 2-3 others max. This will be a full running OS with the ability to screw up everywhere. They may also open up the "questions" a lot more and say something like "Install an AD domain for Contoso.com with such and such OUs, these users, these permissions on this folder for these groups".

Who knows, but i dont think they would be moving to it if they didnt anticipate it makign it more difficult to **** on.

There will ALWAYS be cheaters, but i think making your exam cost umpteen million dollars (vmware) or having silly "recommendation" requirements (CISSP) is going to eventually devalue the cert. If a company cant reasonably expect you to have it, they will stop asking for it.

tiersten

Jordus wrote: »

But the sims are locked out to where you can only go into the correct menus, or 2-3 others max. This will be a full running OS with the ability to screw up everywhere. They may also open up the "questions" a lot more and say something like "Install an AD domain for Contoso.com with such and such OUs, these users, these permissions on this folder for these groups".

The dumpers would just get a precise list of steps that they need to complete to pass that specific lab. They already get it for sims so there isn't much difference.

Jordus wrote: »

There will ALWAYS be cheaters, but i think making your exam cost umpteen million dollars (vmware) or having silly "recommendation" requirements (CISSP) is going to eventually devalue the cert. If a company cant reasonably expect you to have it, they will stop asking for it.

$3000 isn't particularly much for training for a company. You can save up as well and go do it. I don't think $3000 is beyond the reach of an IT professional.

dynamik

tiersten wrote: »

The dumpers would just get a precise list of steps that they need to complete to pass that specific lab. They already get it for sims so there isn't much difference.

Exactly.

tiersten wrote: »

$3000 isn't particularly much for training for a company. You can save up as well and go do it. I don't think $3000 is beyond the reach of an IT professional.

Yes, or put it on a CC as a last resort. That really isn't that much money to recouperate. If you're not going to get a large enough bump in pay to justify that, why is it worth it to you? As noted earlier, you can still get plenty of experience and education without the course and certification. If you're a solid systems admin with ESX experience, you'll probably find a place that's willing to help you get trained and certified.

I personally think they should allow some experience excemptions, like how you can waive the CEH course if you have two years of security experience, but that's just me. Like Tiersten said in response to my dumper joke, the course ensures that VCPs have a certain amount of competency with the product.

Also, I'd be surprised if VMware was making any significant amount of money off of this. Considering that they have to pay for the instructors, the hardware (though I'm sure they get their SANs for next to nothing ), the facilities, development and maintenance of the program, etc., there's probably not a great deal left over. They could probably make a better profit if they dedicated that much time and energy to something else. I really don't think it's a gimmick to line their pockets.

spaat

I just took the class @ HP (paid for it out of my own pocket). Def a little more intensive then your average HP classes. Although I am an experienced Net Admin, I had no prior VM knowledge. IMO, the class is well worth the money spent. Although I feel they should make it a 5 day course and implement the basic components of VCB, overall I was very pleased. If you take the course serious, you will come away with a good foundation for VMware to build upon.

tiersten

spaat wrote: »

Although I feel they should make it a 5 day course and implement the basic components of VCB, overall I was very pleased.

VMware also do a 5 day fast track course which is the Install & Configure course you've done and the Deploy, Secure & Analyze course which goes into more depth. The VCP exam is still only for the I&C course however.

dynamik

tiersten wrote: »

The VCP exam is still only for the I&C course however.

While the content of the VCP exam is from I&C, you can do any of the I&C, DSA, or FastTrack courses to qualify for the certification.

(I know Tiersten knows this; I just wanted to clarify for those who didn't)

jibbajabba

spaat wrote: »

I just took the class @ HP (paid for it out of my own pocket). Def a little more intensive then your average HP classes. Although I am an experienced Net Admin, I had no prior VM knowledge. IMO, the class is well worth the money spent. Although I feel they should make it a 5 day course and implement the basic components of VCB, overall I was very pleased. If you take the course serious, you will come away with a good foundation for VMware to build upon.

I remember pretty much everyone in our course complained about the lack of VCB...

tiersten

Gomjaba wrote: »

I remember pretty much everyone in our course complained about the lack of VCB...

Yup. VCB is part of DSA for some reason.

mrjonk

Shut up about ****. You only need a 60% to pass VMware certs. Cisco is close to 85%.
Certification are only part of the package. People/organizations so ignorant they cannot tell the difference, often will not even be cognizant of specific certs.:

Certification are just a tax. Every 2-3 years, for now. I am sure they are dreaming of how to get people to recertify on a monthly basis.