What Degree? Certifications? Career? Reenlist?

Hallucinate

I am having a hard time deciding what to get a degree in. I am also walking the line on doing a shore-duty command in the navy or getting out.

Here is my background:

I am 23 years old, currently enlisted in the US Navy as an E-5, and have about 4 years experience in the IT field. I have also knocked out all of my general college courses.

At work our main network has approximately 1200 users with 7 windows 2003 servers; 2 DC's, 2 Exchange (2003), and 3 file servers. Almost all clients are XP, but have some 2000 clients that tie into some other systems.

We also have various other intelligence networks, which includes many Solaris 8 servers and sunblade clients.

All our switches are old Alcatel Omniswitches. We also have a few older Cisco routers.

My problem is that I enjoy learning everything. I am interested in security, switches, routers, and Microsoft server administration. When I first got to this command, I was in love with unix, but have recently steered away from it. I enjoy messing around with a little bit of scripting here and there. I am not sure of how much I would enjoy programming frequently, but I have only taken one C++ class and that was years ago. I also find the idea of penetration testing extremely exciting, although I have no experience with anything like that.

My biggest regret is not jumping into certifications sooner. All I have is my Network+, which certainly doesnt amount to much. Now that our deployment is nearly ended, I have been able to focus on studying more often. I signed up to take Security+ and the 290 exam on May 29th and feel overly-confident about each of them. I am wondering if I am wise for going for the MCSE route? I dont think it will take me very long to get it, and I can get the navy to pay for it; however, I can get them to pay for any cert listed here https://www.cool.navy.mil/it.htm I just want to know I am going about things the right way and am not wasting my time.

My enlistment ends in August 2010, but I am considering re-enlisting for a 2 or 3 year shore-duty in San Diego. That will get me detached from this boat in March 2010 with an new EAOS of March 2012 or 13. My main reasoning for that would be to relocate to San Diego (i live a ferry ride away from Seattle now), save some more money, and hopefully get to work on a degree while working pretty skate hours. A single E-5 in the navy, living in San Diego, makes about $4200 a month before taxes. I am also trying to decide if I should commit myself to purchasing a house, or hold off until after I find a more permanent career.

Either way, should I go with computer science, information systems, information assurance, information technology, or what? It seems like there are so many to choose from that I really don't know where to start or if it even matters. If I had to guess which is the most prestige, I would say computer science; however, would that limit me to programming? I am not sure that I want to push code all day.

I just don't want to look back on these years and wish that I had done things differently.

Any input is appreciated.

the_Grinch

Stay in, if for no other reason then to let them pay for your degree. As for degree, look at each program and see what you like. Comp Sci isn't always just programming, but usually is. Information Assurance is a few and far between program, but can't hurt. If you were to convert to CTN then I would go IA because you'd have experience on top of the degree. I have a computing security degree and I think it has hindered me a bit. I've had a couple of potential employers tell me they don't believe I'd be happy doing normal support. On jobs that were security related, a lack of experience has stopped me from getting jobs.

If I were to go back I would have done either Computer Science or Information Systems/Technology with a concentration in security. I say Computer Science because I see programming jobs all the time. On top of that, I say IT/IS because companies seem a little more receptive to it. But at this point in time, I would stay in till the economy turns around. Good luck!

Hallucinate

Thanks for the reply! I would love to convert over to CTN; unfortunately, both IT2/CTN2 manning is at proper level, so converting is impossible at this time. I am pretty confident I will re-up for a shore duty someplace nice like San Diego. I am extremely interested to see how this post-911 GI bill plays out. I am hoping we get everything they're promising, but wont know until August 1st of this year.

Tyrant1919

I was in the USAF, wish I would have stayed in. I miss the military life. Lucky for me, we only had shore duty :^). The only thing I wasn't to hot on in the military, is that you don't decide what you'll be doing, or where you'll be going. On the outside, I have complete control of everything career wise.

As for a degree you'll be interested in, I'm not sure as I'm not to up to date on that stuff. If staying in so they pay for your degree is your main motivation, do remember you have your MGIB. Hell I use it to pay for my tests.

carboncopy

Do you have a clearance? I was also an IT in the Navy and got out at 23yo. I am 24yo now and doing very good. I was stationed in a command that a lot of people would call one of the worst in the Navy for ITs which is one of the reasons I probably got out.

So with your experience, clearance if you have one, and military background I would say you can land a pretty good job as a civilian. If you don't mind the Navy then I would recommend for you to extend and finish your 8 years so that you are not Inactive Reserve when you get out.

eansdad

Stay in and let them pay for the degree and certs. Also with NMCI coming to a close soon (at least with EDS/external involvement) there should be more opportunities in the IT field with in the Navy. I wish I had a stayed in the Army, would have been 7 yrs from a pension now and still would have been young enough to find a good job.

JDMurray

Hallucinate wrote: »

My enlistment ends in August 2010, but I am considering re-enlisting for a 2 or 3 year shore-duty in San Diego. That will get me detached from this boat in March 2010 with an new EAOS of March 2012 or 13. My main reasoning for that would be to relocate to San Diego (i live a ferry ride away from Seattle now), save some more money, and hopefully get to work on a degree while working pretty skate hours. A single E-5 in the navy, living in San Diego, makes about $4200 a month before taxes. I am also trying to decide if I should commit myself to purchasing a house, or hold off until after I find a more permanent career.

San Diego is a beautiful area, the weather is fantastic, it's a great place to live, but very expensive--especially housing. Because of the current housing market, right now is probably the best time to buy a house, if you can get a mortgage. You can earn a lot of money down in "LoCal" as an IT person, but you'll need to because you'll be paying some of the highest state, local, and sales taxes in the USA. We don't have it any better up here in "SoCal."

Hallucinate

Tyrant1919 wrote: »

I was in the USAF, wish I would have stayed in. I miss the military life. Lucky for me, we only had shore duty :^).QUOTE]

Believe me, if all I had was shore duty staying in would be a no-brainer.

carboncopy wrote: »

Do you have a clearance?

I am fortunate enough to have a TS/SCI clearance.

eansdad wrote: »

Stay in and let them pay for the degree and certs. Also with NMCI coming to a close soon (at least with EDS/external involvement) there should be more opportunities in the IT field with in the Navy.

NMCI would be an awesome shore duty; unfortunately, you are required to obliserve when picking NMCI billets. That would required me to reenlist for 5 years and I certainly don't want two more years at sea. I have done enough time in the water.

JDMurray wrote: »

San Diego is a beautiful area, the weather is fantastic, it's a great place to live, but very expensive--especially housing. Because of the current housing market, right now is probably the best time to buy a house, if you can get a mortgage. You can earn a lot of money down in "LoCal" as an IT person, but you'll need to because you'll be paying some of the highest state, local, and sales taxes in the USA. We don't have it any better up here in "SoCal."

I love San Diego! I have probably been there about 50 different times. I have been talking to a realtor that USAA referred me to. I told him I was looking for a 3 bed/2 bath (even though it's just me). He said that I could afford that in National City, Spring Valley, Paradise Hills, and maybe City Heights. I know that is south and east of downtown, but I am concerned I will end up with a long commute to work.

I will be hoping to move into the house by March, but I am a bit nervous. I don't want to have this crazy long commute everyday to work. It's kind of hard to plan for when I dont know where I will be working. Perhaps it's better to get a smaller house some place different in California? My price range is probably topping off at around 250,000. Naturally, cheaper would be easier. Thoughts?

JDMurray

Hallucinate wrote: »

I will be hoping to move into the house by March, but I am a bit nervous. I don't want to have this crazy long commute everyday to work. It's kind of hard to plan for when I dont know where I will be working. Perhaps it's better to get a smaller house some place different in California? My price range is probably topping off at around 250,000. Naturally, cheaper would be easier. Thoughts?

Yes, not knowing where you will be working is a big planning problem. There are lots of cheap houses out in the desert areas, but that's a long, hard commute unless you are working out there. I would suggest renting until your work situation firms up.

SysAdmin4066

Former Marine here, got out at 22 as E5, now 26 (27 next month) and making 6 figures. Marine Corps paid for Bachelors, and gave me 4 years of hands on experience, best decision I ever made and the catalyst for the wonderful life and career i've enjoyed so far. But I am glad I am not in. The military was a stepping stone in my case. I served my country, gave my life for 4 years and in return they gave me my life back with interest. But in the Corps, you could come home in a body bag. Not so pleasant, us all being riflemen. I did a tour in Afghanistan, and I dont ever want to do something like that again. It was an experience I will never forget, have the scars and injurys to remind me. Its up to the individual though, Navy is different, though not much safer. Good luck, and thank you for protecting my family and I.

Hallucinate

JDMurray wrote: »

Yes, not knowing where you will be working is a big planning problem. There are lots of cheap houses out in the desert areas, but that's a long, hard commute unless you are working out there. I would suggest renting until your work situation firms up.

I am trying to find a location that isn't too far away from everything, but affordable too. How is the city height's area? After reenlisting, I will be working for 2 or 3 years in San Diego. Also, I plan on going to school somewhere like San Diego State University, while in the navy and after i get out. If i am not mistaking, city heights is kind of inbetween them. I'd hate to rent for 3-6 years. I am thinking about just buying a POS. I think it would probably be better than renting.

Hallucinate

SysAdmin4066 wrote: »

Former Marine here, got out at 22 as E5, now 26 (27 next month) and making 6 figures. Marine Corps paid for Bachelors, and gave me 4 years of hands on experience, best decision I ever made and the catalyst for the wonderful life and career i've enjoyed so far. But I am glad I am not in. The military was a stepping stone in my case. I served my country, gave my life for 4 years and in return they gave me my life back with interest. But in the Corps, you could come home in a body bag. Not so pleasant, us all being riflemen. I did a tour in Afghanistan, and I dont ever want to do something like that again. It was an experience I will never forget, have the scars and injurys to remind me. Its up to the individual though, Navy is different, though not much safer. Good luck, and thank you for protecting my family and I.

I am happy to hear you are doing well. A close friend of mine recently got out as an IT2 out not too long ago. He is currently making over 6 figures as well out near Seattle. The only thing is it's contracting work, but getting involved in that scares me. Just today i sent him an email saying im worried about getting a contract job and this is what he said:

Yeah moving to California is DEFINITELY the way to go, just go down and talk to Carlson. Ask him how Sadler is doing down there. The cost of living is much higher and the jobs pay less than the Seattle market. If you are scared of the economy and you seriously want to work in the IT field as a Security guy you are retarded for leaving this area. It is number one for jobs in the United States, the tech market is still very strong here. San Diego is not even top 10 – so don’t pretend this is about getting a job or good for your career! This is about you wanting to go party some more J Just keep it real and state it for what it is homo!

When I said I was going to go to VA it was because there were some good job opportunities there for people with clearances. Yeah I was scared because my current contract expired – but I had another job before that one even ended – it took me a whopping 3 weeks of looking to find a job that increased my pay by more than 20k a year. If you think about it, I have gone from making about 40-50k in the military to making 60k at my first contract, to 84k at my second one to over 100k now. The work may be less ‘certain’ but the money is certainly coming in.

Let me know if you have any more statements you want to say that I can make you look like an idiot :P

-Mort
Go Seahawks

He keeps telling me to get out, but I am a bit nervous about doing so.

Kasor

I agree, stay in the service. Guarantee training and stable income...

networker050184

I'd say if you don't plan on staying in twenty go ahead and get out now. I knew after six years I wasn't going to do twenty so I just went ahead and got out as I had gotten all I was going to get from the military. Don't get me wrong, joining the military was the best decision I ever made, but you can get more then enough out of one enlistment (experience, education, discipline and money for school) if you work hard to make it easily in the civilian world.

And don't worry about the nerves, we all get them when the time comes to go and make it in the civilian world. Smart people with military experience are highly sought after.

carboncopy

I must say that as a contractor I have very good job security. It all depends who you work for and what contracts you are working on. Don't be afraid about being a contractor. I have not heard of any of my friends that were in the military of having to worry about employment. You have a good set of skills that were provided to you by the Navy. If you are not making the Navy your career, I would definitely get out and get a jump start on your new career. You still have your MGIB right?

Hallucinate

carboncopy wrote: »

I must say that as a contractor I have very good job security. It all depends who you work for and what contracts you are working on. Don't be afraid about being a contractor. I have not heard of any of my friends that were in the military of having to worry about employment. You have a good set of skills that were provided to you by the Navy. If you are not making the Navy your career, I would definitely get out and get a jump start on your new career. You still have your MGIB right?

Everyone is telling me to get out, and I keep telling myself I should reenlist because due to the current state of the economy. Also, if i dont get out, I will have to wait until I graduate from college to buy a house.

I do still have my GI bill. Did you hear about the post-911 GI bill? Basically, it will cover full tuition of the highest paid public college in whichever state you choose. You get E-5 "dependant" BAH, based on the zip code of the school. There is like $1000 a year for books for something, and a 250 stipend for something. If I stay in the Seattle area, E-5 BAH is like 1500 dollars a month.

It definitely is an option to get out. If I did, then I would just have to wait until after I graduated and found employment to buy a home. I guess the good thing would be that I will know where I am working and can buy something close.

It's such a tough decision for me. It's a life-changing decision! Get in or stay out. If I knew i was going to get out, I wonder what would be more important cert wise.. cisco or mcse?

JDMurray

Hallucinate wrote: »

Everyone is telling me to get out, and I keep telling myself I should reenlist because due to the current state of the economy.

What are the reasons people give for getting out of the military at this time? Are there a lot of people who think the military is (or will be) a bad place to be under President Obama?

Hallucinate wrote: »

If I knew i was going to get out, I wonder what would be more important cert wise.. cisco or mcse?

Apples and oranges. One is for netadmins and the other is for (Microsoft) sysadmin. Which are you?

the_Grinch

If you want to stay, stay. The pieces will fall where they need be either way. But if you want an education then it makes sense to take advantage of the Navy paying without touching your GI Bill. You'll have no issue getting a contracting job, but a lot of Navy guys I talked to said it was easier to get a job if you had a degree. Also, I would consider renting. Let BHA pay the rent, save like a $1000 a month, then get out find out where you want to live/work, and have a good down payment. As a vet you should be able to get a decent mortgage rate whether your in or out. Then use the GI Bill for graduate school!

megatran808

I think everyone is giving you great advice. I think you should stay in as well. Especially in this down economy. Lots of job cuts and companies closing down. Guys with all the certs and degrees are being laid off.
Who pays you 1st and 15th of each month? Uncle Sam. You might as well milk your time and get your degree in this recession period. When times get better you'll be well armed with a degree and certs.

But whatever decision you make. I wish you good luck!

shodown

JDMurray wrote: »

What are the reasons people give for getting out of the military at this time? Are there a lot of people who think the military is (or will be) a bad place to be under President Obama?



Apples and oranges. One is for netadmins and the other is for (Microsoft) sysadmin. Which are you?

1. The war is wearing people thing. By the time I had been in for 6 years I was already on my 4th deployment. This is no fault of the current president, just the reality of being in the military during war time.

Also the new GI bill is awesome. If I was younger I would quit my job and go and get a degree. I already have the job I want, so giving it up for a degree is kinda going backwards for me.



To the OP

Get more certs before you go. If you don't want to do NMCI look for NOCs that are available. You can do some server stuff, cisco and linux/unix. You work shift work, but at least you don't have to obliserver. I was at one of the NOCs before I got out and was able to land a VOIP job from being there. You also have your TS/SCI that is a very good card to have in your deck upon getting out. I didn't use mine when I got out, but still have 2 years before its gone. Try the regular world and if it dont' work out jump on to a military contract somewhere.

Hallucinate

JDMurray wrote: »

What are the reasons people give for getting out of the military at this time? Are there a lot of people who think the military is (or will be) a bad place to be under President Obama?

I dont want to open up a political discussion, although, I think that would make this thread extremely interesting. The main reasoning that people are telling me to get out is because of my rating. Joining the navy as an IT, I have acquired valuable job experience that can be used on the outside world. It is extremely common for ITs to serve only one enlistment because of that. There is more money to be made on the outside in this particular jobfield.

Apples and oranges. One is for netadmins and the other is for (Microsoft) sysadmin. Which are you?

I am interested in both and more. What would be the best way to land a penetration testing job without experience in that field? Or the best way to simulate lab environment to gain some hands-on experience?

I have read all over the infosec forum talking about building a foundation by learning how everything works so that you can secure it. How can you secure 100 doors if you only know about 20? The 6 pack of coke anology (in reference to the CISSP cert), etc. To me, penetration testing sounds like the most exciting thing in the world. What would I need to get on my resume so that I can sell myself at an interview?

Hallucinate

the_Grinch wrote: »

If you want to stay, stay. The pieces will fall where they need be either way. But if you want an education then it makes sense to take advantage of the Navy paying without touching your GI Bill. You'll have no issue getting a contracting job, but a lot of Navy guys I talked to said it was easier to get a job if you had a degree. Also, I would consider renting. Let BHA pay the rent, save like a $1000 a month, then get out find out where you want to live/work, and have a good down payment. As a vet you should be able to get a decent mortgage rate whether your in or out. Then use the GI Bill for graduate school!

I have been doing some more research lately and if I were to get out in August 2010, I could roll right into Computer Science at the University of Washington. It would easily be a full ride. As for the renting, that is certainly a good idea too! I found a 3 bedroom apartment that myself and 2 buddies will be able to split after we return from this deployment for dirt cheap. I will be able to save up a lot.

Hallucinate

shodown wrote: »

Get more certs before you go. If you don't want to do NMCI look for NOCs that are available. You can do some server stuff, cisco and linux/unix. You work shift work, but at least you don't have to obliserver. I was at one of the NOCs before I got out and was able to land a VOIP job from being there. You also have your TS/SCI that is a very good card to have in your deck upon getting out. I didn't use mine when I got out, but still have 2 years before its gone. Try the regular world and if it dont' work out jump on to a military contract somewhere.

You made me smile just there. I HATE dealing with PRNOC!!! It is always the most difficult thing. Just a few weeks ago, we were unable to access numerous websites. After checking around with several other ships, it turns out that no one is able to access these same websites. So I call the NOC and I ask them to verify that no changes have recently been made to their router and that their DNS is functioning properly. I explain that it's not just us having the problem, it's everyone! Well, I was told to reboot our router, verify our ACL, etc. Eventually, they came out and said it was their fault, but it is always like pulling teeth.

Just to be clear, I am not bashing your recommendation about the NOC. I am sure there is a lot of valuable experience to be learned there. I just shared that story because when you mentioned the NOC, that was the first thing I thought of!

I also want to thank everyone for their time responding. Like it was said above, I think everyone is offering a lot of really good advice. Thanks to everyone for all of your responses. They are all appreciated!

shodown

Hallucinate wrote: »

You made me smile just there. I HATE dealing with PRNOC!!! It is always the most difficult thing. Just a few weeks ago, we were unable to access numerous websites. After checking around with several other ships, it turns out that no one is able to access these same websites. So I call the NOC and I ask them to verify that no changes have recently been made to their router and that their DNS is functioning properly. I explain that it's not just us having the problem, it's everyone! Well, I was told to reboot our router, verify our ACL, etc. Eventually, they came out and said it was their fault, but it is always like pulling teeth.

Just to be clear, I am not bashing your recommendation about the NOC. I am sure there is a lot of valuable experience to be learned there. I just shared that story because when you mentioned the NOC, that was the first thing I thought of!

I also want to thank everyone for their time responding. Like it was said above, I think everyone is offering a lot of really good advice. Thanks to everyone for all of your responses. They are all appreciated!

I don't want to bash the NOC here either, but there are several shifts and we often didn't check the last shifts work and would just say we didn't change anything(which is true) but never go back to look. Also going to the NOC you will really understand working in hi stress levels. Every ship calling you talking about how important they are over other ships and you really learn to prioritize. There are a few other commands you can go to get some great experience. If you are really Sh1t hot DEVGRU and JSOC JCU are great places to go. You will get all the training you want and work at the tip of the spear. JCU is a jumping billiet so choose wisley if your scared of heights,lol. You can be a devgru without being a jumper and get your expeditionary pin there also, but if you decide to stay in getting 2 pin's at 1 command would look great going up for CPO. Or there is always White House COMMS. I have a few friends working there. That will get you a Yankee White, and certain positions come with FS Poly. That will be invaluble to have in later years. Good luck

Hallucinate

shodown wrote: »

JCU is a jumping billiet so choose wisley if your scared of heights,lol. You can be a devgru without being a jumper and get your expeditionary pin there also, but if you decide to stay in getting 2 pin's at 1 command would look great going up for CPO. Or there is always White House COMMS. I have a few friends working there. That will get you a Yankee White, and certain positions come with FS Poly. That will be invaluble to have in later years. Good luck

We just pulled into Hawaii today (i have duty), and my friend is transfering to JCU. He had to fly out to North Carolina for an interview a month or so back. He is really excited about it.

I already got both of my pins. I had to get a waiver to get them so quickly. The minimum requirement is 1 year onboard, but i fought hard. I rocked both Surface and Air Warfare as an E-3. I will definitely never put anchors on though. If i were to even consider staying in long enough, I would end up going officer. Enlisted just isnt the way to go...

shodown

Hallucinate wrote: »

We just pulled into Hawaii today (i have duty), and my friend is transfering to JCU. He had to fly out to North Carolina for an interview a month or so back. He is really excited about it.

I already got both of my pins. I had to get a waiver to get them so quickly. The minimum requirement is 1 year onboard, but i fought hard. I rocked both Surface and Air Warfare as an E-3. I will definitely never put anchors on though. If i were to even consider staying in long enough, I would end up going officer. Enlisted just isnt the way to go...

I was talking about the Exw pin and naval Para wings. That would be 4 pin total. Also doing that would make you a Prime candidate for any "O" program you were eligible for. When you friend comes back from his interview he will tell you that most people get to JCU as E5/E6 and everybody leavees in Khaki's no matter what kind they want. Take your time to figure out what you want. I was a 8yr E6 Going up for CPO when I decided the navy wasn't for me anymore. I make less money money now, my benifits are gone, and no retirement check coming at 20 years. On the flip side, my acne is gone, acid refux is gone, no more chest pain and no more bouts with depression. So think about your reasons. Everybody talks about that check and cheap health benfits when you retire, but you can look at what I posted above with my health and you can clearly see that it was in my best move to get out.

Hallucinate

shodown wrote: »

I was talking about the Exw pin and naval Para wings. That would be 4 pin total. Also doing that would make you a Prime candidate for any "O" program you were eligible for. When you friend comes back from his interview he will tell you that most people get to JCU as E5/E6 and everybody leavees in Khaki's no matter what kind they want. Take your time to figure out what you want. I was a 8yr E6 Going up for CPO when I decided the navy wasn't for me anymore. I make less money money now, my benifits are gone, and no retirement check coming at 20 years. On the flip side, my acne is gone, acid refux is gone, no more chest pain and no more bouts with depression. So think about your reasons. Everybody talks about that check and cheap health benfits when you retire, but you can look at what I posted above with my health and you can clearly see that it was in my best move to get out.

Yeah, Tyler is really excited about the whole JCU thing. He is already done with the interview process and is actually transferring to that command from this in-port period.

I know for sure I wont do 20 years. That is definitely out of the question. I dont want to spend all my years out to sea. So much time goes by, and too fast.

the_Grinch

Don't forget about the Navy Commissioning programs...

https://www.sta-21.navy.mil/overvw.html

As for getting into pen testing (I don't do it for a living), but I've gotten interviews based on courses I have taken. With your experience and an education you shouldn't have any issues. Plus with your clearance there are a couple 3 letter agencies that would be happy to hire you on as a civilian and pay you nicely for it. Then you can buy back your military time to put it in your civilian pension!

jenniferruth04

Don't have much idea about this. I would also like know more about this. Anybody have knowledge, please share your views.