Light at the end of the tunnel

undomiel

6 months later I have finally won a job offer. Unfortunately I can't feel so great about it as it is a rather low ball offer with an extremely restrictive non-compete attached. So we'll see how well my negotiating skills work out over the next several days. Hopefully I can pull it up closer to what I am actually worth. Fortunately the owner was rather free with financial information so I can calculate how exactly I fit into the equation. About the only part of the offer that really excited me was paid training. I've never had that in a job before so it is quite novel.

So how did I win this job offer? Doing the job. I successfully completed an Exchange 2007 migration on contract for the company leaving a very happy client. No interview required. If you can find a way to do the job instead of doing the interview, your chances of success will definitely increase. Of course, provided you can do the job.

dynamik

Congrats buddy! Even if the pay is a bit on the low side, it sounds like it'll be a good opportunity for your to build up some real-world experience (at least on paper - I know you know you're stuff ). It seems like the lack of "experience" was what was making things such a struggle for you. Couple that with paid training for a couple of years, and you're going to be looking real good when you want to move on. Do you get to work with anything cool like VMware?

How bad is the non-compete? I've seen some that basically prevent you from doing any work in the state (or a multi-state area) for years. I think that's insane.

Forsaken_GA

low pay and a non-compete would be deal breakers for me. One of those needs to go away. Unfortunately, IT employment is a buyers market at the moment

undomiel

Yeah, I would have to move out of Arizona. Not that I would shed any tears out of leaving here! I've got a chance at Citrix experience and I would be the sole VMware experience here. Hopefully some projects would turn out using VMware, as I know the owner is wanting to push more virtualization out there. Who knows, maybe I'll get a VCP out of the deal. We'll see.

undomiel

Preferably the low pay goes away. It won't be a deal breaker for me though as it is still more than unemployment currently pays out.

dynamik

undomiel wrote: »

Yeah, I would have to move out of Arizona.

That's ridiculous. There's no way I'd sign that. I don't mind making an ethical agreement to not poach their existing customers, but something like that is way too broad. I know it doesn't matter to you since you'd want to leave anyway, but it's the principle of the thing!

Forsaken_GA

The only way I'm signing a non-compete without any challenges is if the salary is commiserate with the risk. Otherwise, the only way I'm signing a non-compete is if the terms are only enforceable if I decide to go look for another job. If you fire me or lay me off, the non-compete needs to become invalid, unless you're going to give me a severance large enough to live off of for the duration of the non-compete period.

One of my former employers tried that crap with me. Basically they wanted us all to sign a non-compete that stated we can't go work for another employer in the same capacity for three years after leaving the company. Period.

I crossed out the parts I didn't like, added a few clauses of my own, and sent it back to HR saying that this was the only non-compete I would sign. They called me in, had me sit down with my manager and the VP of Operations and decided to lean on me, explaining that if I didn't sign it, my future with the company would be in jeopardy, so on and so forth. I explained to them that I felt I was being bullied and that the company didn't have my best interests at heart, and that while I understood them wanting to protect themselves, but that if they weren't going to, I had to look out for myself. If that didn't sit well with them, they were free to let me go.

They said they'd consider what I said, and I never heard a word about me signing a non-compete ever again, and I stayed with the company for another 2 and a half years.

eansdad

There are laws governing non-competes. I would look it over and do some research as to whether the provisions are unreasonable (time and job scope) or maybe take it to an attorney to over look. A lot of companies abuse non-competes to scare employees from leaving.

I had a non-compete with Compaq/HP and Accu Staffing and they tried to enforce it when I left for a better job. They had 3 years, within 150 miles of job site and same job duties as well as a few others listed. I went to an attorney who drafted a letter saying if they tried to enforce it they'd be sued for infringing on my ability to find work. I got a better job and they left me alone.

itdaddy

I went to an attorney who drafted a letter saying if they tried to enforce it they'd be sued for infringing on my ability to find work. I got a better job and they left me alone.

+1
yeah f them!

undomiel

Employed again! Starting on Monday I'll be a Senior Engineer. I had a somewhat successful negotiation as well. We went back and forth several times which brought the salary up a bit. Not as high as I would like and it is still a definite pay cut, but the benefits are great and actually make up a lot of the difference. Plus in 3 months we'll revisit the salary issue with certain metrics in place to enable bringing it up. And yes, I have it all in writing too.

Definitely feels good to finally be back into work! Oh and the non-compete got relaxed a lot as well so I'm perfectly fine with it now. I'll be able to work in Phoenix if things go sour. The guy is a good guy to work for, since I've already been working with him for a month now, so I don't for see that happening. I also definitely like the idea that when I'm not at a client's site I'll most likely (though not always) be working from home. That will make work a lot more stress free for certain. It also looks like the first thing I'll be working from the training budget will be the CCNA, with a slight chance of VCP instead. So that's exciting too. I wonder when I'll find time to do the RHCE, which will definitely have to be on my own dime since the company stays away from linux.

dynamik

Glad to hear things are finalized for you; keep us posted!

zen master

I think the issue of 'non complete' clauses in contracts deserves its own topic. They seem to be the norm in our field these days, and us IT guys don't really seem to know how to read or handle contracts, mix that with a bit of desperation and you've got the recipe for making very bad decisions.

eansdad

Glad to hear it worked out for you. I agree that a "No Compete" thread should be started. I can see a lot of people staying in a bad spot since they have a crappy no compete that may not be valid.

NetAdmin2436

Awesome!

Glad to hear everything is working out for you. Now get back to work you slacker

msteinhilber

Congrats! That's great news!

I've been close and seeing that light at the end of the tunnel myself the past few weeks. Unfortunately my lights keep ending up like these.

snadam

Undomiel,

I am so glad you're out of the woodworks. That takes guts and determination. Believe me when I say I am truly happy you found a job and wish you nothing but the best. I know that we havent kept in contact much, but you are definitely not forgotten (besides, I think you still have some of my books )

PLEASE keep us all posted and let us know how its going!