So, how do I make $100K in this business???

94jedi

Hey all...so the wife and I were having one of "those talks" the other day. We just had a baby and she's a stay at home mom (mutual decision). She used to own a bridal boutique but she sold it to stay home w/ the baby. Not that she made a ton of money but without her business paying most of our bills, my paycheck just isn't cutting it. We're dipping into savings every month. We've tightened our belts a bit but when you own a house, there's always random things coming up that cost you an arm and a leg.

Anywho----

So, my question is how the heck do I make $100k in this business? I know its not an overnight thing. I'm in about 10 years in so far. I don't have a degree but I do have a couple of certs and I'm working more constantly. Obviously a degree would help me get into upper management more but I don't know if that's for me. I like getting my hands dirty. I don't think I'll be satisfied w/ just sitting behind a desk and giving out orders.

I guess this boils down to career advice mostly. I'm just attaching a benchmark ($100k) to it.

Should I specialize in 1 niche area more? I'm currently a Network admin, a sort of jack of all trades type. I do SQL, exchange, Web sense/surfcontrol, ms server maintenance etc. I pretty much do everything. My IT dept is a 2 man operation, I take care of just about everything while the IT director does alot of policy/paper work/politics etc. I don't think have much upward mobility where I am now but I want to raise my "net worth" to where I can make about $100k...


So any suggestions, thoughts, questions, and most importantly - career advice?

Ahriakin

Specialize but in something relatively common, which also means you need to aim for an area where you can really prove yourself - and finding a match for those 2 is not easy. Look around the job boards and see what positions are in the $100k + range for your area.
Server administration is more common but harder to break 6 figures on (it can be done but not on pure admin. alone).
Network engineering is probably a better bet (if you get your CCIE in whatever track you like you will break 6 figures very easily - as long as you have the experience to back it up).

dynamik

Also, consider where you're living too. $100k in LA isn't the same as $100k in Minneapolis.

skrpune

This is kinda out of left field, but what about if your wife did occasional bridal consulting for some extra cash?? If she had a boutique then she's obviously got some experience and some connections from being in the biz, and she can be a bridal consultant and charge out the yin-yang. It's not exactly the answer to the question you were asking, but it's an alternative that has a flexible schedule and could be a nice little side business. Heck, she can even take along the baby on some appointments...we chicks do love to coo over cute little babies.

Claymoore

Some quick options:

1. Search engine optimization for pr0n sites
2. Herbal supplement spam
3. Keylogging identity theft

But if you want to take the more challenging route of working hard in a legitimate profession there are still options:

Take a job where IT is a profit center not a cost center
If you still like getting your hands dirty and want the opportunity to make six figures, you will probably have to work for a consulting firm. Not many companies can afford (or need) to keep a CCIE on staff. Go to work for a vendor partner who values your skills and needs your certs to meet partner obligations. You will get the opportunity to work with your chosen tech more often and with greater depth. For example, when I worked internal IT, I would get the opportunity to deploy a new Exchange version once every 5 years. Now I get to work maybe 3 large deployments a year. Greater skills = higher bill rates = larger salary.

Specialize
A jack-of-all-trades is useful in internal IT and can be a valuable addition to a consulting project team as well, but you'll be a utility player and not a starting all star. Find a tech or product that you like - you'll be working with it every day so make sure you like it - and work to become one of the best at that product. Whether it's a CCIE Voice, Exchange Master, Oracle DB God or SAP Overlord, just try to be the best you can.

Move
Move to a larger city with more tech jobs if you can. If you already live in a city, either move close to downtown or the airport. There aren't many high-paying tech jobs in the sticks or the suburbs.

Travel
Travelling all the time for projects sucks and people don't like doing it. However, if you are willing to travel you can be compensated well in different ways. I travelled when I was younger and single and I got the opportunity to work on projects and gain skills that I wouldn't have had without travelling. This past summer I turned down an opportunity at a large consulting firm because it was 80% travel. If you had the skills and were willing to travel that job could have been yours, and it probably paid close to six figures.

brad-

I dont know about where you live, but in the south, a $100k job is rare. The people that do make that kind of bread here in the IT world are consultants.

bertieb

Claymoore wrote: »

Some quick options:

1. Search engine optimization for pr0n sites
2. Herbal supplement spam
3. Keylogging identity theft

D'oh, Claymoore has busted my 'plan A' Back to the study then....

Turgon

94jedi wrote: »

Hey all...so the wife and I were having one of "those talks" the other day. We just had a baby and she's a stay at home mom (mutual decision). She used to own a bridal boutique but she sold it to stay home w/ the baby. Not that she made a ton of money but without her business paying most of our bills, my paycheck just isn't cutting it. We're dipping into savings every month. We've tightened our belts a bit but when you own a house, there's always random things coming up that cost you an arm and a leg.

Anywho----

So, my question is how the heck do I make $100k in this business? I know its not an overnight thing. I'm in about 10 years in so far. I don't have a degree but I do have a couple of certs and I'm working more constantly. Obviously a degree would help me get into upper management more but I don't know if that's for me. I like getting my hands dirty. I don't think I'll be satisfied w/ just sitting behind a desk and giving out orders.

I guess this boils down to career advice mostly. I'm just attaching a benchmark ($100k) to it.

Should I specialize in 1 niche area more? I'm currently a Network admin, a sort of jack of all trades type. I do SQL, exchange, Web sense/surfcontrol, ms server maintenance etc. I pretty much do everything. My IT dept is a 2 man operation, I take care of just about everything while the IT director does alot of policy/paper work/politics etc. I don't think have much upward mobility where I am now but I want to raise my "net worth" to where I can make about $100k...


So any suggestions, thoughts, questions, and most importantly - career advice?

Everything is a generalization. There are exceptions but if you want 100K+ you need to move away from the support sphere into senior management, design, architecture, or consulting. Even low level designers earn less these days. The money has been collapsing to the centre for years now away from the techies. Architects, senior management, auditors earn the loot.

94jedi

skrpune wrote: »

This is kinda out of left field, but what about if your wife did occasional bridal consulting for some extra cash?? If she had a boutique then she's obviously got some experience and some connections from being in the biz, and she can be a bridal consultant and charge out the yin-yang. It's not exactly the answer to the question you were asking, but it's an alternative that has a flexible schedule and could be a nice little side business. Heck, she can even take along the baby on some appointments...we chicks do love to coo over cute little babies.

Yes, she thought about that but unfortunately, in 4 years she burned herself out with dealing with bride-zillas and mom-zillas lol. It's a good suggestion though. Thanks for that!!

94jedi

dynamik wrote: »

Also, consider where you're living too. $100k in LA isn't the same as $100k in Minneapolis.

That's very true, where I live now, $100 is like $130k in the Washington DC/Metro area where I used to live.

94jedi

Turgon wrote: »

Everything is a generalization. There are exceptions but if you want 100K+ you need to move away from the support sphere into senior management, design, architecture, or consulting. Even low level designers earn less these days. The money has been collapsing to the centre for years now away from the techies. Architects, senior management, auditors earn the loot.

You're right. that seems to be the direction things have taken.

Plantwiz

94jedi wrote: »

...

Anywho----

So, my question is how the heck do I make $100k in this business? ....?

I haven't seen anyone paying that sort of money for General IT support in our region...ever. You may (as already mentioned) be able to specialize and maybe get some custom programming work and such, but generally not a flat out salary for that amount of money.

How close are you currently to that goal? (without being too specific). If you are at $40K (which seems about normal), then another full-time job or a couple part-time additional jobs may bring you closer to $80K...but the time away from your family...just doesn't make it worth it for the long term. IMHO


The bridal consulting gig as someone mentioned is a great opportunity IF your wife WANTS to do this, as there will be very little overhead and she likely needs her old contacts and she'll be up and running.

More education is ALWAYS good (right up until you price yourself out of the market ). But if you went out on your own, you could control your income level better then you do working for someone else...it just isnt' as 'easy' as working for someone else.

$100K is a lot of money (unless you live in LA or NYC), so it really just depends on where you live and if you have truly done a written budget to see where your money is going. Average income is around $44K for most households...and frankly, that is a decent living....doesn't mean the desire to work harder to have more is bad, but there is a $60K spread between 'average' and your goal. Likely there is some room to play in the middle, correct?


Three budget forms listed here to get you started:
Financial Peace University - Tools



Otherwise,
- more school
- extra jobs
- maybe wife consults on the side (while you are home).

94jedi

Claymoore wrote: »

Some quick options:

1. Search engine optimization for pr0n sites
2. Herbal supplement spam
3. Keylogging identity theft

But if you want to take the more challenging route of working hard in a legitimate profession there are still options:

Take a job where IT is a profit center not a cost center
If you still like getting your hands dirty and want the opportunity to make six figures, you will probably have to work for a consulting firm. Not many companies can afford (or need) to keep a CCIE on staff. Go to work for a vendor partner who values your skills and needs your certs to meet partner obligations. You will get the opportunity to work with your chosen tech more often and with greater depth. For example, when I worked internal IT, I would get the opportunity to deploy a new Exchange version once every 5 years. Now I get to work maybe 3 large deployments a year. Greater skills = higher bill rates = larger salary.

Specialize
A jack-of-all-trades is useful in internal IT and can be a valuable addition to a consulting project team as well, but you'll be a utility player and not a starting all star. Find a tech or product that you like - you'll be working with it every day so make sure you like it - and work to become one of the best at that product. Whether it's a CCIE Voice, Exchange Master, Oracle DB God or SAP Overlord, just try to be the best you can.

Move
Move to a larger city with more tech jobs if you can. If you already live in a city, either move close to downtown or the airport. There aren't many high-paying tech jobs in the sticks or the suburbs.

Travel
Travelling all the time for projects sucks and people don't like doing it. However, if you are willing to travel you can be compensated well in different ways. I travelled when I was younger and single and I got the opportunity to work on projects and gain skills that I wouldn't have had without travelling. This past summer I turned down an opportunity at a large consulting firm because it was 80% travel. If you had the skills and were willing to travel that job could have been yours, and it probably paid close to six figures.

All very good points. At my current employer, IT is a "cost center". We're viewed as an "overhead" expense and thus, we're not valued as much as we should be.

I've considered traveling and I'm willing to do so but I'm going to take it up a notch and say that I'd like to work remotely from home as much as possible. Is that asking too much? lol. Ok, maybe not.

I don't think a move is going to be possible although who knows...stranger things have happened. I certainly see that $100k in my area is going to be very hard to come by.

I definitely see the need to specialize. I do many things at my current job but as someone mentioned, I don't deal with those things enough to really increase my skill level.

94jedi

Plantwiz wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone paying that sort of money for General IT support in our region...ever. You may (as already mentioned) be able to specialize and maybe get some custom programming work and such, but generally not a flat out salary for that amount of money.

How close are you currently to that goal? (without being too specific). If you are at $40K (which seems about normal), then another full-time job or a couple part-time additional jobs may bring you closer to $80K...but the time away from your family...just doesn't make it worth it for the long term. IMHO


The bridal consulting gig as someone mentioned is a great opportunity IF your wife WANTS to do this, as there will be very little overhead and she likely needs her old contacts and she'll be up and running.

More education is ALWAYS good (right up until you price yourself out of the market ). But if you went out on your own, you could control your income level better then you do working for someone else...it just isnt' as 'easy' as working for someone else.

$100K is a lot of money (unless you live in LA or NYC), so it really just depends on where you live and if you have truly done a written budget to see where your money is going. Average income is around $44K for most households...and frankly, that is a decent living....doesn't mean the desire to work harder to have more is bad, but there is a $60K spread between 'average' and your goal. Likely there is some room to play in the middle, correct?


Three budget forms listed here to get you started:
Financial Peace University - Tools



Otherwise,
- more school
- extra jobs
- maybe wife consults on the side (while you are home).

I haven't seen anyone make that amount in my area either. I make about $55k right now although w/ benefits and profit sharing and insurance, my company claims my "total compensation" is in the area of $71k. Obviously, I don't see the latter amount on my paychecks, or even the first amount for that matter.

I do realize that $55k is a decent salary for my area although I can't help but feel under-valued. This is an internal struggle that I think most people deal with. I should be happy to even be employed at this time, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be ambitious.

I don't think going out on my own is really a viable option at this point. I have a good friend that is a partial owner in the largest IT Consulting firm in my area so I wouldn't want to burn that bridge if you know what I mean. That is a potential option as well.

I'll have to talk to the wife about bridal consulting but I doubt she'll go for it. I dont' mind continuing my education if that's what it takes. I've been extremely complacent about it in the past but obviously I need to turn it up a bit.

LarryDaMan

dynamik wrote: »

Also, consider where you're living too. $100k in LA isn't the same as $100k in Minneapolis.

So true. I have relatives in more rural locations who think my wife and I should be rich with our combined family income. However, we don't live in Hickville or Podunk. Besides, most people who make a lot of money also spend a lot of money. Your lifestyle tends to change with your income.

94jedi

LarryDaMan wrote: »

So true. I have relatives in more rural locations who think my wife and I should be rich with our combined family income. However, we don't live in Hickville or Podunk. Besides, most people who make a lot of money also spend a lot of money. Your lifestyle tends to change with your income.

That's one thing the wife and I really try to work on. The way we live right now suits us just fine. I'd like to keep it this way while increasing my income.

joey74055

94jedi wrote: »

I don't think going out on my own is really a viable option at this point. I have a good friend that is a partial owner in the largest IT Consulting firm in my area so I wouldn't want to burn that bridge if you know what I mean. That is a potential option as well.
QUOTE]

I understand not wanting to burn any bridges with any friends but getting hired on as a consultant at your friends company may be your best bet. You don't have to be a partner or owner just an employee, a consultant at one of the largest IT consulting firms in your area. This could really open your door with the kind of exposure that only a IT consultant gets, which in the long run could help you acheive your goal.

rsutton

dynamik wrote: »

Also, consider where you're living too. $100k in LA isn't the same as $100k in Minneapolis.

This is what I was thinking too. $100k here in the Bay Area is nothing.

94jedi

joey74055 wrote: »

94jedi wrote: »

I don't think going out on my own is really a viable option at this point. I have a good friend that is a partial owner in the largest IT Consulting firm in my area so I wouldn't want to burn that bridge if you know what I mean. That is a potential option as well.
QUOTE]

I understand not wanting to burn any bridges with any friends but getting hired on as a consultant at your friends company may be your best bet. You don't have to be a partner or owner just an employee, a consultant at one of the largest IT consulting firms in your area. This could really open your door with the kind of exposure that only a IT consultant gets, which in the long run could help you acheive your goal.

The more I think about it the more it really comes down to this. I think you're right. I'll talk to him about the possibility of this. My current employer actually uses his firms consulting services. Whenever I have a project that is out of my scope of knowledge, I call him up. Luckily, I've been able to pick up a lot of knowledge from him.

94jedi

rsutton wrote: »

This is what I was thinking too. $100k here in the Bay Area is nothing.

In the DC Metro area (where I'm from originally) $100k isn't all that much either.

ColbyG

Get into Storage, Security, high level Voice or Networking. Those pay the big bucks. Get a CCIE.

Claymoore

94jedi wrote: »

All very good points. At my current employer, IT is a "cost center". We're viewed as an "overhead" expense and thus, we're not valued as much as we should be.

I would hope that you and the work you do are valued, but that work is still only worth so much. None of us expect a six figure salary for working first level help desk. It's not that the effort of that first level technician isn't valued - in fact it's necessary - but it is still only worth first level pay. A $20/hr person may do a slightly better job, but a $15/hr person does a good enough job.

This is why I said most companies don't need a CCIE on staff even if they could afford one. Unless their network is so large and complicated that they need CCIEs at their beck and call (like at a large ISP or a telco), there is no reason to pay that annual salary. They staff what they need for day-to-day operations and rely on partners and support contracts for the rest.

Aldur

My advice would be similar to many other's in this thread. You need to specialize in something that would be valuable enough to an employer to pay over 100k for. Consider pursuing IE level certifications, when I got my JNCIE-M it opened an unreal amount of doors for me and even though I was very low on experience I was able to get a salary that I would have never thought I could get.

Also if you're willing to travel then you are likely to make a higher wage, very few ppl want to do 100% travel for their work. I have a friend who works for a training company, they fly him all over the world and he makes over 100$/hr. Keep in mind though that his work is 100% travel and it kinda drags on him from time to time. Although, if I was single I would definitely go that route without thinking twice about it, see the world on the company dime and make tons of cash in the process, not a bad idea if you have nothing tying you down

eMeS

100k doesn't really seem like that much anymore, and as others have said it's all about where you live and your lifestyle.

There's a saying I heard once about the California gold rush. It goes something like this: "The people that made all of the money were the ones selling the shovels to those digging for gold".

I think there's some truth in statements such as that one. Steer your career more towards equipping and enabling others to do the actual low-level work. For example, a manger of a help desk would primarily ensure that his staff has the tools and capabilities to get their work done, but he might do very little of the actual work. Generally, this person will command a higher salary too.

IMO, it always pays better to sell the shovels than to do the digging. Even better is if you can sell someone the plans to make the shovels, and so on....

This can be done at many levels, and it fits nicely with advice you've already received in this thread.

If you intend to continue to work for others, then one of the fastest ways that I've seen people get their salaries up is by changing jobs every 18 months or so. Loyalty doesn't seem to be valued as much in some companies, and this might be a strategy that works for you. Job hopping can be a double-edged sword, but with a strategy like this it's almost always a #'s game...in other words, out of all of the employers out there someone will hire you, if you knock on enough doors.

Another way to make money is to go independent. There are several on this board doing this very thing. The big question is always where and how to start. There are about a million answers to this question.

Something you might do in the interim is set yourself up to do some side work in your spare hours. There are always people out there that don't know how to configure this or that, or need general pc work done. I don't know if that's your thing, but if you have a skill, then there is likely some market for it.

94jedi

eMeS wrote: »

100k doesn't really seem like that much anymore, and as others have said it's all about where you live and your lifestyle.

There's a saying I heard once about the California gold rush. It goes something like this: "The people that made all of the money were the ones selling the shovels to those digging for gold".

I think there's some truth in statements such as that one. Steer your career more towards equipping and enabling others to do the actual low-level work. For example, a manger of a help desk would primarily ensure that his staff has the tools and capabilities to get their work done, but he might do very little of the actual work. Generally, this person will command a higher salary too.

IMO, it always pays better to sell the shovels than to do the digging. Even better is if you can sell someone the plans to make the shovels, and so on....

This can be done at many levels, and it fits nicely with advice you've already received in this thread.

If you intend to continue to work for others, then one of the fastest ways that I've seen people get their salaries up is by changing jobs every 18 months or so. Loyalty doesn't seem to be valued as much in some companies, and this might be a strategy that works for you. Job hopping can be a double-edged sword, but with a strategy like this it's almost always a #'s game...in other words, out of all of the employers out there someone will hire you, if you knock on enough doors.

Another way to make money is to go independent. There are several on this board doing this very thing. The big question is always where and how to start. There are about a million answers to this question.

Something you might do in the interim is set yourself up to do some side work in your spare hours. There are always people out there that don't know how to configure this or that, or need general pc work done. I don't know if that's your thing, but if you have a skill, then there is likely some market for it.

That's an interesting perspective. Obviously, even though I like to get my hands dirty, I don't want to be doing low-level work forever. I guess specializing in a specific technology will help w/ that.

I've definitely done some side-work in the past and it's a nice way to make a few extra bucks but it can get very time consuming. I also worry about the IRS and how much I actually need to claim. The thing that bothers me about side work is that it's typically, for a one man operation, very basic low-level stuff.

You're right though. I do have a skill and I should use it to make extra cash on the side. I've done some of that in the past but I can certainly do more.

joey74055

94jedi wrote: »

That's an interesting perspective. Obviously, even though I like to get my hands dirty, I don't want to be doing low-level work forever. I guess specializing in a specific technology will help w/ that.

I've definitely done some side-work in the past and it's a nice way to make a few extra bucks but it can get very time consuming. I also worry about the IRS and how much I actually need to claim. The thing that bothers me about side work is that it's typically, for a one man operation, very basic low-level stuff.

You're right though. I do have a skill and I should use it to make extra cash on the side. I've done some of that in the past but I can certainly do more.

As far as side work goes, the way I see it is stay away from home users, like the plague. If you were to do some side work, I would look for a very very small business owner, like a dentist or lawyers office. Once you start working on home users PC's, which in that by itself isn't going to help you with any higher level exp, they will have you on speed dial. They will expect you to fix every littl ething all the time, worst yet, if they are family or friends you won't want to make them mad so you will be trapped. With a small business, you can put in a couple servers for them, a firewall, router, switch and etc. You are basically their consultant. The larger the business the more complex setups you will do. Another thought just to get started or your feet wet, is to start off with your first client for free, just so that you can get some exp and can use them as a referrel for future clients. So a thought for doing things on the side. however, just as with the home user, they may call on you at every little thing and want you to fix their PC-related issues which would hinder your time from doing higher level things.

itdaddy

Joey74055 said:

As far as side work goes, the way I see it is stay away from home users, like the plague. If you were to do some side work, I would look for a very very small business owner, like a dentist or lawyers office. Once you start working on home users PC's, which in that by itself isn't going to help you with any higher level exp, they will have you on speed dial. They will expect you to fix every littl ething all the time, worst yet, if they are family or friends you won't want to make them mad so you will be trapped. With a small business, you can put in a couple servers for them, a firewall, router, switch and etc. You are basically their consultant. The larger the business the more complex setups you will do. Another thought just to get started or your feet wet, is to start off with your first client for free, just so that you can get some exp and can use them as a referrel for future clients. So a thought for doing things on the side. however, just as with the home user, they may call on you at every little thing and want you to fix their PC-related issues which would hinder your time from doing higher level things.

OMG Joey, you crack me up! you hit the nail on the head my friend. That is what I did. I only do mom and pop businesses on the side work. Never again will I do home users. Home users are a living hell and friends...callingyou all the time for help and free this and free that..
and never do I get a free lunch nor anything but thanks for the free this or that bud see you at work..and home users...home user never backup their data and if some how you delete stuff by accident, you ask them hey did you back up your computer data, they say no! and you are SOL!

joey is right do not do home users. their pc problems will take too much time and they piss and moan about paying you! for your hard labor..
pc repair is a thank less job.. doesnt bother me when repair shops charge so much that way only needy people who really want stuff fixed will come in...people need to know more about PCs to take care of their own stuff a little more.... but yeah home users are nightmarish! yikes ahaha
but man that was funny..someone else out there that has felt my pain!
but no more home users, no more pain! I stilll get them but send them to local PC repair shops! hee hee;)

apd123

I make $100K + with 4 years experience, the certs listed in the DC Metro Area if that helps. If you have 10 years experience and no degree I would think people would want to see higher level certs. All the people who called me on my most recent job hunt wanted security and voice specializations. Also during my job interviews it was all about being grilled for knowledge the certs just got me the interviews. I will say the one common factor was they did not care about my 2.5 gpa and pathetic number of college credits. I do want to finish my degree but am starting to doubt it will happen which saddens me.

94jedi

joey74055 wrote: »

As far as side work goes, the way I see it is stay away from home users, like the plague. If you were to do some side work, I would look for a very very small business owner, like a dentist or lawyers office. Once you start working on home users PC's, which in that by itself isn't going to help you with any higher level exp, they will have you on speed dial. They will expect you to fix every littl ething all the time, worst yet, if they are family or friends you won't want to make them mad so you will be trapped. With a small business, you can put in a couple servers for them, a firewall, router, switch and etc. You are basically their consultant. The larger the business the more complex setups you will do. Another thought just to get started or your feet wet, is to start off with your first client for free, just so that you can get some exp and can use them as a referrel for future clients. So a thought for doing things on the side. however, just as with the home user, they may call on you at every little thing and want you to fix their PC-related issues which would hinder your time from doing higher level things.

I hear you on the home users. That's why I don't do much sidework. I didn't want to say it in case some of you do that type of work but yes, I've felt your pain as well, many times. Speed dial, free phone support all that crap. Then they moan when you charge $60 an hour or a $120 flat fee to wipe and restore a jacked up pc. Sometimes though, it's the only way to make some extra cash so I cant' really rule it out at this point.

94jedi

apd123 wrote: »

I make $100K + with 4 years experience, the certs listed in the DC Metro Area if that helps. If you have 10 years experience and no degree I would think people would want to see higher level certs. All the people who called me on my most recent job hunt wanted security and voice specializations. Also during my job interviews it was all about being grilled for knowledge the certs just got me the interviews. I will say the one common factor was they did not care about my 2.5 gpa and pathetic number of college credits. I do want to finish my degree but am starting to doubt it will happen which saddens me.

interesting. As far as college, I'm in the same boat as you I guess. I have about 30 credits towards an Architectural Design major but I sort of quit college to get into the network admin biz.

You're right though, people want to see high-level certs if you don't have a degree. They want to see that you've done something w/ your time other than mastering HALO and Madden lol.

So it seems like Voice and Security are the big draws....Security seems like it would be harder to be at an elite level...maybe I'll look more into voice. Bah, who knows...

itdaddy

94jedi
yeah my logic is same. better to get into voice than security..security is always changing and well voice not so much..yuo just say "let the ccie security guy be responsible! I am a ccie voice guy!" hahahahha