Chips in official IDs raise privacy fears

veritas_libertas

What does everyone think about this? There was a lot of discussion in my Telecommunications class about RFID. I for one am not excited about this

My Way News - Chips in official IDs raise privacy fears

wd40

In my country we have "Smart Identity Cards", I believe they have RFID chips.

The Government wrote:

With built-in biometrics such as fingerprints as well as the photograph and signature of the holder, the Smart Card allows fast and secure verification of the holder's identity. The Smart Card contains data and information from the holder's passport, ID card, CPR card and driving license. Additionally, the Smart Card can include the holder's basic medical details and the latest academic qualifications.

It is mandatory, the deadline for all citizens to get the new card is the end of July.

So, basically if your government decide to go with RFID documents the only option that you have is to buy one of those RFID waves blocking wallets, or wrapping your documents in aluminum foil

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tiersten

wd40 wrote: »

So, basically if your government decide to go with RFID documents the only option that you have is to buy one of those RFID waves blocking wallets, or wrapping your documents in aluminum foil

If you're worried about RFID then yeah, this is your only reasonable solution. Some people advocate burning out or damaging the transponder chip inside but that is a bad idea for multiple reasons.

wd40

tiersten wrote: »

If you're worried about RFID then yeah, this is your only reasonable solution. Some people advocate burning out or damaging the transponder chip inside but that is a bad idea for multiple reasons.

No 1 reason for us: You will not be able to use the ID card and will have to get a new one.

"it costs around 6 US$ only" but you have to take an appointment and wait in line.

dynamik

I haven't followed this for awhile, but last I saw, these were hackable. Did anything change?

I'd definitely be going the aluminum-foil paranoia route if I ever have to get one of these.

tiersten

dynamik wrote: »

I haven't followed this for awhile, but last I saw, these were hackable. Did anything change?

Last I saw, they were hacked but only up to the point that a basic reader device would be fooled. The "proper" readers that are actually used in passport control would do further checks.

You can read them from a distance very easily though.

Forsaken_GA

This is why I'm a fan of these guys -

Show All Products-Identity Stronghold

veritas_libertas

I just think the whole thing is a bad idea. Anything is hackable given time. Mixing private information and wireless is a bad idea. I sure got a kick out of that guy sitting there and being able to pick up on RFIDs.

I would sure like to know what information is suppose to be recoverable from these passports. Names? SS#?

wd40

in our country you can get the following with a card reader "not sure about what you can get from the RFID chip" + a simple application provided by the government.

Full name
CPR "our SSN#"
Colored picture
signature
full address

but fortunately identity theft is extremely rare here . .

wastedtime

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

This is why I'm a fan of these guys -

Show All Products-Identity Stronghold

There are also DIFRWEAR and probably a whole lot of sites selling items like these. I personally like the pink one though

Don't forget that RFID has been used by credit card companies for a good while now too. I seem to remember them being a big thing at the gas station.

veritas_libertas

wastedtime wrote: »

There are also DIFRWEAR and probably a whole lot of sites selling items like these. I personally like the pink one though

Don't forget that RFID has been used by credit card companies for a good while now too. I seem to remember them being a big thing at the gas station.

I don't know if that makes me feel any better though I am an avid listener to Security Now Security Now! and I think the argument that because its been out there for a while is weak. Not trying to disrespect you or anything.

msteinhilber

The thing that concerns me the most with RFID chipping is the fact that you can potentially be identified as a particular "type" of person. I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist but I do respect my privacy and feel the government has overstepped boundaries with privacy and has a willingness and means to continue to do so. What would be to stop operations at some point if the government decided they were going to have officials read track RFID numbers in the vicinity of protests or near the entrance to gun shops.

Add me to the list of those that will utilize wallets or other RFID blocking mechanisms.

veritas_libertas

msteinhilber wrote: »

The thing that concerns me the most with RFID chipping is the fact that you can potentially be identified as a particular "type" of person. I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist but I do respect my privacy and feel the government has overstepped boundaries with privacy and has a willingness and means to continue to do so. What would be to stop operations at some point if the government decided they were going to have officials read track RFID numbers in the vicinity of protests or near the entrance to gun shops.

Add me to the list of those that will utilize wallets or other RFID blocking mechanisms.

I think you explained my feelings better than me I have no problem with using RFID for getting through gates, its the fact that I am now individually identifiable. Thanks for clarifying your thoughts and mine

wastedtime

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I don't know if that makes me feel any better though I am an avid listener to Security Now Security Now! and I think the argument that because its been out there for a while is weak. Not trying to disrespect you or anything.

Na, my personal feeling that RFID should stay with inventory management/equipment tracking until they get some of the privacy/security issues addressed. As far as security now I wasn't a big fan of it or how Steve Gibson goes off about windows and raw sockets. I was more into Binrev (liked the live/creativeness) and secthis.com among others.

tiersten

wastedtime wrote: »

Steve Gibson goes off about windows and raw sockets.

The Internet is doomed! Doomed I tell you! Oh wait... nothing happened...

TravR1

Lets all just agree that it starts with just a simple name and number and ssn and address and they keep adding little things here and there.. they never do it all at once, and they do it promising you how great and convienent it's going to be and how it's better for everyone in the long run.

It's just a way for gov't to keep tabs on people.. what other reason would they have for it that a drivers licenses doesn't already take care of.

It reminds me of that right-wing report that Homeland security came out with saying people that come back from Iraq or Afganistian need to be monitored and watched because they are extremists.. or something like that.

wd40

TravR1 wrote: »

It's just a way for gov't to keep tabs on people.. what other reason would they have for it that a drivers licenses doesn't already take care of.

What about people that do not have drivers license?

TravR1

wd40 wrote: »

What about people that do not have drivers license?

Go to the DMV and pick up a regular state identification card. I have a DL and a state ID card. I keep my DL in my car and my ID in my wallet.

mikedisd2

TravR1 wrote: »

Lets all just agree that it starts with just a simple name and number and ssn and address and they keep adding little things here and there.. they never do it all at once, and they do it promising you how great and convienent it's going to be and how it's better for everyone in the long run.

If you can't control the masses by force, do it by stealth.
No one here has mentioned NWO?

wd40

TravR1 wrote: »

Go to the DMV and pick up a regular state identification card. I have a DL and a state ID card. I keep my DL in my car and my ID in my wallet.

My point is, everybody can get an ID Card, so it should be the standard identity document.

I'm not American, YMMV

veritas_libertas

mikedisd2 wrote: »

If you can't control the masses by force, do it by stealth.
No one here has mentioned NWO?

I don't believe there is any official NWO. There are many people that want a world government though.

Veritas Est Libertas - Truth is Liberty

I detest controlling people by technology. I think that is why I like the Internet so much. Masses of information (though some are just plain wacky), and I believe the last vestige of freedom in many ways. Look at Iran, China, and other countries. They use technology to control their people but in many ways it can't be achieved. People in Iran turned to Twitter and the cell phones to get the word out. China as hard as they try have difficulty stopping their citizens from using proxies to see the Western World's web sites.

Sorry, I know I am going on a rant. I apologize if I have begun a way to hot topic I really love TE and I don't want to destroy any chance to learn from you guys.

msteinhilber

mikedisd2 wrote: »

If you can't control the masses by force, do it by stealth.
No one here has mentioned NWO?

The thought was in my mind, but I didn't want to get too political since politics is a no-no here. I'm on the fence, I feel there are many out there that want a world government but I think that is a ways away. I wouldn't at all be surprised if that happened in my lifetime or my son's lifetime though. I'm more concerned about a more regional government movements (such as an EU like atmosphere for Canada, The United States, and Mexico) happening since that I think is a more realistic possibility. But that's too off topic and too political I suppose for here.

I agree though, RFID has it's uses I suppose - but I would prefer it be kept far away from forms of identification. As pointed out, you can too easily exploit it and add a little bit here and there to track people more and more. It's too easy for government entities to make sweeping assumptions and as a result keep a close eye on a particular group of people, I wouldn't want a RFID chip in my pocket and a label attached to myself as belonging to a particular "group" because I desire to own an AK-47 or M4 Carbine or other "assault rifle". Fortunately I live in a state where private sale transactions of a used weapon are not required to file a form 4473 nor require any other form of registration.

veritas_libertas

I like my AR