MCSE vs. MCITP: Enterprise Administrator

veritas_libertas

Hello Everyone,

I know this question has gone on back and forth but I feel the need to bring it up again. I am looking at going to WGU for my Bachelor degree (because of work related and family reasons so please don't start the B&M vs. online stuff). I have looked at the Network Design that has the MCSE in it, and the Network Administrator that has the MCITP: Server Administrator in it. I want to do the certification path that will get the most respect. Even if I went MCITP: Server Administrator I would move on to the EA eventually.

What does everyone think? I am concerned that the MCSE/MCSA path will be dropped soon, and I don't want to be half way through when it does.

dynamik

It's probably going to be at least a couple of years before they drop the MCSA/E tracks.

120nm4n

As far as I know, there aren't plans to retire the MCSE in the near future. Right now, the MCITP: SA and EA are not very well known, and don't carry the mindshare the MCSE does, not to say that they won't in the future. Since a lot of companies are still on 2003, I would think the MCSE would be more valuable right now, and then upgrading to MCITP is only a couple tests away once more companies move to 2008.

veritas_libertas

Thank you all for your thoughts. If I don't have to worry about the MCSE disappearing in the near future I will go that way. I was only concerned about it going away as option while I was in the middle of it.

I know for sure that it will hold weight for a long time.

I welcome anyone else that wants to comments on this issue.

skrpune

I have to agree that the Server 2003 products aren't going to disappear anytime soon, so the need for MCSA's & MCSE's probably won't go away for a while either. It's no small task to do a server upgrade, and so I don't see them being done outside of situations where people have money to burn or where there is a failure & need for an upgrade.

There's also nothing stopping you from doing the MCSE outside of WGU either.

Side question - outside of the cert difference, which path at WGU interests you more??

veritas_libertas

skrpune wrote: »

I have to agree that the Server 2003 products aren't going to disappear anytime soon, so the need for MCSA's & MCSE's probably won't go away for a while either. It's no small task to do a server upgrade, and so I don't see them being done outside of situations where people have money to burn or where there is a failure & need for an upgrade.

There's also nothing stopping you from doing the MCSE outside of WGU either.

Side question - outside of the cert difference, which path at WGU interests you more??

Network Design and Security, I was planning on doing that anyway. I was just concerned about the MCITP vs. MCSE/MCSA. I eventually plan on getting my MS in InfoSEC so it seems like a good path. After just passing my Network+ I have the certification bug. I won't start WGU until I finish a couple of certifications so I can make it go quicker and cheaper. I am thinking Security+ and Project+.

b1tbuck3t

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Network Design and Security, I was planning on doing that anyway. I was just concerned about the MCITP vs. MCSE/MCSA. I eventually plan on getting my MS in InfoSEC so it seems like a good path. After just passing my Network+ I have the certification bug. I won't start WGU until I finish a couple of certifications so I can make it go quicker and cheaper. I am thinking Security+ and Project+.

I have been updating my certs for WGU as well. It was pretty bad when I realized my last Microsoft certification exam was in 2000.

Here is the link to the current (post March 1, 2010) WGU transfer guidlines: http://kb.wgu.edu/utility/getfile.asp?rid=457

The quickest route for WGU is to go fo the MCITP Server Administrator certification.

You just need to take three Microsoft exams:
Exam 70-640
Exam 70-642
Exam 70-646

By completing these exams you will have your MCITP: Server Administrator certification which will satisfy the following for WGU:

TEV1 - IT Fundamentals II
TTV1 - IT Fundamentals III
ABV1 - Operating Systems
TNV1 - Networks I

You will also satisfy the WGU requirements below for the Network Administration Emphasis or the Network Design and Managment Emphasis.

AHV1 Directory Services (Both)
AIV1 Network Design and Management (Both)
BHV1 Configuring Applications Infrastructure (Network Design and Managment Emphasis)
BIV1 Enterprise Administration (Network Design and Managment Emphasis)
AJV1 Server Administration (Network Administration Emphasis)


Not bad. Three exams qualify you for 36 credits and 9 classes.

Instead, you may want to do the MCSA 2003 first with the following exams:

Exam 70-290 Managing and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Environment
Exam 70-291 Implementing, Managing, and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure

Exam 70-680 TS: Windows 7, Configuring
(or Exam 70-620 TS: Configuring Windows Vista Client)

allong with the below Comptia exam to satisfy the MCSA and MCSE elective requirement plus the WGU Security I requirement:

CompTIA Security+


You can then get your MCITP: Server Administration certification by completing:


Exam 70-649: TS: Upgrading Your MCSE on Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2008, Technology Specialist

and

Exam 70-646: PRO: Windows Server 2008, Server Administrator
(This is according to the graphic at the following link http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx#tab4 and the MCP Support Center)

The path I just detailed has you take one more exam then going directly for the MCITP: Server Administration Certification and having to to pass the Security+ exam as part of WGU. But by doing so you get the MCSA 2003 certification in addition to the Security+, and MCITP: Server Administration Certifications.

The MCSA or Security+ certifications count for the 3 credit WGU course:
TSV1 - Security I

If you prefer to become an MCITP: Enterprise Administrator on Windows Server 2008 you could have taken exam Exam 70-647: PRO: Windows Server 2008, Enterprise Administrator instead of exam 70-646.

I am assuming Exam 70-680 TS: Windows 7, Configuring would count both for the MCSA and the MCITP simultaniously. If not you will need to take an additional client exam.

Finally you can go back and take Exam 70-293 and Exam 70-294 to finish the MCSE 2003 certification.

I hope this helps.

Also one thing that is not detailed on WGU's website is that they take CLEP exams to satisify a lot of the lower level humanities requirements.

earweed

You've just spent a LOT of time replying to an 8 month old thread. Veritas Libertas enrolled at WGU March 1 this information is referenced in the WGU thread he started. The information you've presented here is current and actually relevant but even students at WGU weren't aware (I'm a current student) of most of the changes that were going to be made March 1.
We were aware of the switch from the MCSA/MCSE to MCITP SA/EA to be effective Dec 31, 2010. This just meant if we could not obtain the MCSA/MCSE for our particular emphasis by that date we should switch to MCITP.

SephStorm

b1tbuck3t wrote: »

I have been updating my certs for WGU as well. It was pretty bad when I realized my last Microsoft certification exam was in 2000.

Here is the link to the current (post March 1, 2010) WGU transfer guidlines: http://kb.wgu.edu/utility/getfile.asp?rid=457

The quickest route for WGU is to go fo the MCITP Server Administrator certification.

You just need to take three Microsoft exams:
Exam 70-640
Exam 70-642
Exam 70-646

By completing these exams you will have your MCITP: Server Administrator certification which will satisfy the following for WGU:

TEV1 - IT Fundamentals II
TTV1 - IT Fundamentals III
ABV1 - Operating Systems
TNV1 - Networks I

You will also satisfy the WGU requirements below for the Network Administration Emphasis or the Network Design and Managment Emphasis.

AHV1 Directory Services (Both)
AIV1 Network Design and Management (Both)
BHV1 Configuring Applications Infrastructure (Network Design and Managment Emphasis)
BIV1 Enterprise Administration (Network Design and Managment Emphasis)
AJV1 Server Administration (Network Administration Emphasis)


Not bad. Three exams qualify you for 36 credits and 9 classes.

Instead, you may want to do the MCSA 2003 first with the following exams:

Exam 70-290 Managing and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Environment
Exam 70-291 Implementing, Managing, and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure

Exam 70-680 TS: Windows 7, Configuring
(or Exam 70-620 TS: Configuring Windows Vista Client)

allong with the below Comptia exam to satisfy the MCSA and MCSE elective requirement plus the WGU Security I requirement:

CompTIA Security+


You can then get your MCITP: Server Administration certification by completing:


Exam 70-649: TS: Upgrading Your MCSE on Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2008, Technology Specialist

and

Exam 70-646: PRO: Windows Server 2008, Server Administrator
(This is according to the graphic at the following link http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx#tab4 and the MCP Support Center)

The path I just detailed has you take one more exam then going directly for the MCITP: Server Administration Certification and having to to pass the Security+ exam as part of WGU. But by doing so you get the MCSA 2003 certification in addition to the Security+, and MCITP: Server Administration Certifications.

The MCSA or Security+ certifications count for the 3 credit WGU course:
TSV1 - Security I

If you prefer to become an MCITP: Enterprise Administrator on Windows Server 2008 you could have taken exam Exam 70-647: PRO: Windows Server 2008, Enterprise Administrator instead of exam 70-646.

I am assuming Exam 70-680 TS: Windows 7, Configuring would count both for the MCSA and the MCITP simultaniously. If not you will need to take an additional client exam.

Finally you can go back and take Exam 70-293 and Exam 70-294 to finish the MCSE 2003 certification.

I hope this helps.

Also one thing that is not detailed on WGU's website is that they take CLEP exams to satisify a lot of the lower level humanities requirements.

Thanks anyway, I have idea what I might do now.

b1tbuck3t

earweed wrote: »

You've just spent a LOT of time replying to an 8 month old thread. Veritas Libertas enrolled at WGU March 1 this information is referenced in the WGU thread he started. The information you've presented here is current and actually relevant but even students at WGU weren't aware (I'm a current student) of most of the changes that were going to be made March 1.
We were aware of the switch from the MCSA/MCSE to MCITP SA/EA to be effective Dec 31, 2010. This just meant if we could not obtain the MCSA/MCSE for our particular emphasis by that date we should switch to MCITP.

My hope was to help others who may come across this thread. I did a search and didn't find the WGU thread.

Hyper-Me

bitbucket, how are you so sure that those 3 exams knock out that much of the degree?

I'm about to start the Network Design and Management, and i already have my MCITP:EA. So if it knocks out that much stuff they may as well go ahead and reward me a Bachelors before I even get going.

earweed

b1tbuck3t wrote: »

My hope was to help others who may come across this thread. I did a search and didn't find the WGU thread.

+1 Sorry bout that, I may have been a little harsh. Go check out Western Governors University Questions and Answers / Threads related to WGU

earweed

Hyper-Me wrote: »

bitbucket, how are you so sure that those 3 exams knock out that much of the degree?

I'm about to start the Network Design and Management, and i already have my MCITP:EA. So if it knocks out that much stuff they may as well go ahead and reward me a Bachelors before I even get going.

You're right HM, he listed the A+,Client systems (vista/7), and Net+ classes as rhe first 4 being knocked out by those tests. .

bitbuck3t wrote:

You just need to take three Microsoft exams:
Exam 70-640
Exam 70-642
Exam 70-646

By completing these exams you will have your MCITP: Server Administrator certification which will satisfy the following for WGU:

TEV1 - IT Fundamentals II
TTV1 - IT Fundamentals III
ABV1 - Operating Systems
TNV1 - Networks I

Those 4 classes are covered by A+ (2 tests), 70-680, and net+

b1tbuck3t

Hyper-Me wrote: »

bitbucket, how are you so sure that those 3 exams knock out that much of the degree?

I'm about to start the Network Design and Management, and i already have my MCITP:EA. So if it knocks out that much stuff they may as well go ahead and reward me a Bachelors before I even get going.

This information is coming from WGU published transfer guidelines and speaking to an enrollment councilor.

The link to the current transfer guidelines is:

http://kb.wgu.edu/display/2/kb/article.asp?aid=1906

If the that link doesn't work:

go to http://www.wgu.edu/sh

Select Records and Transcripts on the left side.

Check out Transfer Credit Evaluation - For Student who Began WGU on or after March 1, 2010 Select the PDF for the IT program on the right.

You may also want to look at:
Transfer Credit for IT Certificates
Whom do I contact about a transfer evaluation question?


Choose the appropriate PDF on the right.

If you already have one of the listed certification WGU should provide credit. I have been told that a single cert will apply to multiple courses because you have effectively demonstrated competency.

Unfortunately in other WGU degree programs it is not as easy to get credit. WGU generally only allows the lower level classes to transfer except for the IT program where they expect the certification as having demonstrated competency.

For the BS in IT with a Network Design Emphasis the credit breakdown is:
Potentially Transferable - 97
Non Transferable - 27
Total - 124

Even with all of my Certs including the CCIE (Which WGU currently only recognizes for Networks I) and CLEPing out of a lot of the lower level classes, I still will need to complete 36 credits.

b1tbuck3t

earweed wrote: »

You're right HM, he listed the A+,Client systems (vista/7), and Net+ classes as rhe first 4 being knocked out by those tests. .

Those 4 classes are covered by A+ (2 tests), 70-680, and net+

Once you start the program the tests you listed are required to demonstrate compentancy. However if you hold certain IT certifications prior to transfering, WGU will award credit.

Once you start your classes though you have to pass the associated exams per class.

b1tbuck3t

earweed wrote: »

+1 Sorry bout that, I may have been a little harsh. Go check out Western Governors University Questions and Answers / Threads related to WGU

Thanks for the link pointer. Now I am wishing the post had been in the other thread.

Hyper-Me

Interesting to see if this plays out like you sat bitbucket.

NOT calling you a liar, but I find it difficult to believe i'll get that much credit on transfer. Although, I know I can walk in off the street and pass the A+, prob Net+, Project+, and most of Sec+ without issue...so this is probably where the competency thing plays a key role.

EDIT: When i goto that KB article, it wont load for me.

GWadejr34

I thank you for the information. I will be starting WGU in May and I've learned a couple of new things after reading your thread.

It wasn't all in vain.

b1tbuck3t

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Interesting to see if this plays out like you sat bitbucket.

NOT calling you a liar, but I find it difficult to believe i'll get that much credit on transfer. Although, I know I can walk in off the street and pass the A+, prob Net+, Project+, and most of Sec+ without issue...so this is probably where the competency thing plays a key role.

No offense taken. I still have a little feeling of this is to good to be true. Please study the information at the links I posted and discuss the information with your enrollment councilor. Unfortunately once you start the WGU program you can't transfer any more credit in.

I should hopefully be able to post a follow up in the next few days on my experience. I might have a problem with my last exam posting to my transcript in time for an April 1st start at WGU (The 25th of the prior month is the deadline for transcripts) I am scheduled for my last exam for the MCITP:SA on March 24th. I had to update my MCSE since it was over 5 years old. I also went the route of updating to my MCSA first before realizing three exams would get you the MCITP:SA certification.

Another way to look at this is if someone with no prior IT knowledge completed a 4 year traditional degree, what level of knowledge would they have from their undergraduate classes? Compare that to the level of knowledge you have from completing your certifications and from on the job experience.

My only fear is that if the vendor certs are not protected and if someone can **** on them then it undermines the competency based approach.

I did call the MBA program at Wharton – University of Pennsylvania (Rated as number two in the country) and verified with them that coming from WGU was no problem. I asked about the lack of grades and there response was that Stanford doesn't give grades so why should it be a problem for WGU.



In my case I have delayed getting a degree for years because of the following:

- Wouldn't get an increase in salary due to the level I am at professionally
- Would not gain much knowledge from the undergraduate classes. (I really only would go for an undergraduate so I could start a masters)
- Return on investment given the cost versus no expected increase in pay.

Thankfully distance education in general and WGU particularly have evolved to meet the needs of adult learners instead of recent high school graduates.

My brother in law is also going to start at WGU. It will be interesting to compare our experiences. In my case I have spent the last twenty years in the IT profession actively pursuing and maintaining certifications. In his case he only has a base Network administrator level of knowledge. I will be trying to transfer out of as many courses as possible while he will be taking all but two classes. I get reimbursed from work for Certifications but less for classes while he gets reimbursed for classes but not certifications. So in his case it is in his best interest to take the course work through WGU.

Hyper-Me

My transcripts are all in. As you can tell from my sig I have an array of MS stuff. I sincerely hope you are correct in that my MCITP:EA will knock out several lower end classes. I wouldnt be too upset if I have to do the A+/Net+, as I can pass them very quickly, but any time I can save = money saved in the end which is fantastic.

I should know how my transfers play out by the end of this week.

b1tbuck3t

Hyper-Me wrote: »

My transcripts are all in. As you can tell from my sig I have an array of MS stuff. I sincerely hope you are correct in that my MCITP:EA will knock out several lower end classes. I wouldnt be too upset if I have to do the A+/Net+, as I can pass them very quickly, but any time I can save = money saved in the end which is fantastic.

I should know how my transfers play out by the end of this week.

Cool, Let me know how it goes.

One of the things I am trying to make sure is that I can fit my classes into full semesters. If you have just one or two classes left and have to start a new semester the official policy is that you have to pay for another semester.

You mentioned being able to pass the Project+ certification quickly. You may want to weigh what you have left after what you expect will transfer to see if it is better to knock it out prior to starting with WGU. It would only matter if you thought you were going to have an extra class that wouldn't fit into a semester.

Hyper-Me

It shouldnt be a big deal IF i get a mentor that will let me go at my own pace (fast).

For instance, I can guarantee that I could pass Net+, A+ and Project+ in one sitting, after a weeks time. Reviewing some Net+, minor Project+ and no A+. I don't know if they will let me go at this pace, but it would be silly to hold me back.

b1tbuck3t

Hyper-Me wrote: »

It shouldnt be a big deal IF i get a mentor that will let me go at my own pace (fast).

For instance, I can guarantee that I could pass Net+, A+ and Project+ in one sitting, after a weeks time. Reviewing some Net+, minor Project+ and no A+. I don't know if they will let me go at this pace, but it would be silly to hold me back.

A friend of mine has been having no push back going at that pace. If you get a mentor you don't like you can request another one. He did that because he didn't feel the first was responsive enough.

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

It shouldnt be a big deal IF i get a mentor that will let me go at my own pace (fast).

For instance, I can guarantee that I could pass Net+, A+ and Project+ in one sitting, after a weeks time. Reviewing some Net+, minor Project+ and no A+. I don't know if they will let me go at this pace, but it would be silly to hold me back.

My Mentor doesn't care as long as I am doing well, and not overloading myself.

Hyper-Me

veritas_libertas wrote: »

My Mentor doesn't care as long as I am doing well, and not overloading myself.

What would he consider overloading? about how many are you taking at one time?

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

What would he consider overloading? about how many are you taking at one time?

Well I am currently taking six at a time. You set the date that you believe it will be completed by and then you have to stick to that. I am already well ahead of the dates that I need to complete many of my classes. I just finished the first half of the A+, and I will complete the other half tomorrow. I finished the entry class, and I figure I will knock off the CIW next week if I can.

Hyper-Me

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Well I am currently taking six at a time. You set the date that you believe it will be completed by and then you have to stick to that.

Thats a really tricky way of them doing it.

While I know how long it would take me to do most of the IT stuff, I would have no clue on the GenEd stuff. Also a "freshmen" with no previous IT knowledge would have no clue on any of it and therefore would likely schedule it later to make sure they have adequate time. Since its all time based, this pushes people into more semesters and equals more cash for WGU.

If im not done in 2 semesters, i'll be pissed.

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Thats a really tricky way of them doing it.

While I know how long it would take me to do most of the IT stuff, I would have no clue on the GenEd stuff. Also a "freshmen" with no previous IT knowledge would have no clue on any of it and therefore would likely schedule it later to make sure they have adequate time. Since its all time based, this pushes people into more semesters and equals more cash for WGU.

If im not done in 2 semesters, i'll be pissed.

My Mentor is pretty good at guessing out the time frames. I wouldn't be to worried if I were you. After all, you seem to do a pretty job of flying through those certs...

b1tbuck3t

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Thats a really tricky way of them doing it.

While I know how long it would take me to do most of the IT stuff, I would have no clue on the GenEd stuff. Also a "freshmen" with no previous IT knowledge would have no clue on any of it and therefore would likely schedule it later to make sure they have adequate time. Since its all time based, this pushes people into more semesters and equals more cash for WGU.

If im not done in 2 semesters, i'll be pissed.

Have you thought of doing CLEPs ahead of starting at WGU for the GenEd stuff? It will cost you more money then just taking the class but if it saves you a semester then you will be ahead. I posted a Clep list earlier and there are several straight forward CLEP exams you could do ahead of starting in April.

You could easily do a Clep a week.

Hyper-Me

Im already slated to start April 1. I have an AAS as well as a pile of certs so it should narrow it down to a handful of classes left.

If they waive even more than I expect (from what youve said), it'll be an ever lighter load.

b1tbuck3t

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Im already slated to start April 1. I have an AAS as well as a pile of certs so it should narrow it down to a handful of classes left.

If they waive even more than I expect (from what youve said), it'll be an ever lighter load.

I don't know why I was thinking you had a full month to go before starting.

You'll probably find out on what transfers for you before I find out what transfers for me. I am taking it to the wire with trying to fit another cert in tomorrow. I may have to push a month and start May 1st.

I am hoping I can send my transcript authorization for Microsoft but have them not check it until like April 28th so the last cert has time to post.