For Those of You Pursuing or Considering University Level Education

eMeS

I'm not exactly sure how to present this, and perhaps some of the guys over in the UK can add a little bit to this....

There is an organization called the British Computer Society - Home : BCS

They offer several certification-like qualifications. One thing I found very interesting are their professional examinations - BCS Professional Examinations : BCS

They offer 3 levels, the highest being the Professional Graduate Diploma in IT, which upon completion is equivalent to year 3 in a UK University Honors Degree progam (the first two are equivalent to years 1 and 2). Completion of this allows admittance into numerous, well-respected graduate level programs - See Postgraduate study : Current student : BCS

These qualifications are earned by taking exams that are only offered twice per year (some only offered once per year). These exams are not only available in UK countries, but can be taken worldwide based on need. My understanding is that there is no formal study required...these credits can be gained entirely through self-study and at your own pace.

The exams are marked on an English system; if you don't know what that means I suggest you find out before you experience it. I looked through some of the questions and answers and it looked very difficult. Definitely not a cakewalk.

Interestingly enough, the test fees look extremely affordable; less than many of us pay for various vendor certifications.

I checked around with some people that I know, and it turns out that this credential is well-respected in the UK.

The two questions that I have with this is how it would transfer into a US school, or how it might be used to meet graduate school entry qualifications in the US? I think the answer to both questions is that it will depend on the school...

Hopefully someone out there can look into this and if it's a fit for them, let us know in a few years how it went. Also, perhaps someone from the UK that's familiar with this program can add their thoughts to this thread.

MS

qwertyiop

I have wondered the same thing

GAngel

Don't take this as gold because I've only glanced at the website. The BCS is basically just a governing/regulating body. I know we have it in canada and australia has it's ACS version. Mainly for use in immigration having your skills recognized. I'm pretty sure most of the G20 probably have something or other like it.

As to how it would be for getting into unis. Almost all undergrad/postgrad programs in the u.s.a require a four year degree you'd have to check each school you want individually to see if 3 years is enough. For post grad. U.S I'd say no in 95% of cases. But i'm sure the BCS staff could help you there as they've probably fielded that question a few times.
In general canada and the U.S require 4 years. Australia and the U.K between 3-4.

I did note the canadian website said

"The BCS is part of the Engineering Council UK (ECUK) a regulating body for engineers, technologists and technicians. The ECUK is affiliated with ESOEPE, FEANI, EurEta and the International Register of Professional Engineers.
The BCS is the only Chartered Engineering Institution for Information Technology (IT), which enables qualified membership to use the Chartered Engineer (CEng) designation."

laidbackfreak

eMeS wrote: »

I checked around with some people that I know, and it turns out that this credential is well-respected in the UK.

I'd be interested to know who you spoke to, over here it's not that highly regarded by anyone I've ever met.

I think academically it holds water and I've known a couple of uni tutors who have been members but they were engineers (non IT).

I've looked at it a couple of times and dissmissed it as no real value to me.
I've never met an employer who values it either. They are mostly looking for vendor certs or traditional accedmic qualifications.

That said I am going through the ACS for immigration purposes and it's a complete nightmare !!
If the BCS is anything like them then I'd stay well clear lol

Sorry I have no idea how any of there exams would transfer so no real input.

NinjaBoy

I have to say that the BCS is changing from the old stuffy shirts to a more modern outlook (thanks to the new president). I'm a MBCS as well as a CITP, and quite a few people I know have also joined up and either have applied for the CITP or at least thinking about it.

Apart from that, whatever a persons view is of the BCS, the qualifications are still worth it in the UK as well as the commonwealth and the ex-commonwealth countries (other countries also, but there's not guarantee). Granted they may not be assessed at the same level as they are in the UK, but a person doing those qualifications should realise that before hand. After all these qualifications are comparable or equivalent to a UK degree and not a UK degree.

The BCS aren't the only body offering comparable or equivalent UK degree qualifications in the UK, there are also City & Guilds (see here and here), Edexcel/BTEC (with their NVQ program and quals at level 4 and above, including distance learning), etc...

In fact any UK qualification mapped (and approved) to Englands NQF at level 4 or above is classed as comparable or equivalent to University level education, a rough guide would be:

NQF level 4 = C level (first year degree)
NQF level 5 = I Level (Second year degree)
NQF level 6 = H level (full UK degree)
NQF level 7 = M Level (Master's degree)
NQF level 8 = D Level (Doctorate level)

-Ken

eMeS

laidbackfreak wrote: »

I'd be interested to know who you spoke to, over here it's not that highly regarded by anyone I've ever met.

I'm a full member of IOSM (a UK-based professional organization for IT Service Management). I spoke with a couple of other members based in the UK, and a couple of guys in this org. that hold Fellow status. I also speak regularly with a couple of people that are FBCS level in the BCS. Of course I recognize that the FBCS people might be a bit biased.

In all fairness, I am not a member of the BCS and I am not seeking any kind of undergraudate degree (those years are well in my past). I simply posted this as it seems people on this site are always looking for ways to achieve "a degree".

I would think simply based on the list of graduate-level programs that completion of this allows entry to would provide some amount of credibility/respect in the marketplace.

laidbackfreak wrote: »

That said I am going through the ACS for immigration purposes and it's a complete nightmare !! If the BCS is anything like them then I'd stay well clear lol.

I can only imagine!

MS

eMeS

NinjaBoy wrote: »

I have to say that the BCS is changing from the old stuffy shirts to a more modern outlook (thanks to the new president). I'm a MBCS as well as a CITP, and quite a few people I know have also joined up and either have applied for the CITP or at least thinking about it.

Apart from that, whatever a persons view is of the BCS, the qualifications are still worth it in the UK as well as the commonwealth and the ex-commonwealth countries (other countries also, but there's not guarantee). Granted they may not be assessed at the same level as they are in the UK, but a person doing those qualifications should realise that before hand. After all these qualifications are comparable or equivalent to a UK degree and not a UK degree.

The BCS aren't the only body offering comparable or equivalent UK degree qualifications in the UK, there are also City & Guilds (see here and here), Edexcel/BTEC (with their NVQ program and quals at level 4 and above, including distance learning), etc...

In fact any UK qualification mapped (and approved) to Englands NQF at level 4 or above is classed as comparable or equivalent to University level education, a rough guide would be:

NQF level 4 = C level (first year degree)
NQF level 5 = I Level (Second year degree)
NQF level 6 = H level (full UK degree)
NQF level 7 = M Level (Master's degree)
NQF level 8 = D Level (Doctorate level)

-Ken

Interesting...so the subtle nuances of Queen's English appears to have caught me again, as it has done many times ("Operations Bridge", "Bespoke").

I browsed through the syllabus at each level. The recommended reading and preparation appeared to be top-notch, although some amount of it was really out of date. The past papers that were available looked very challenging. I don't think this would be something that would be easy to achieve.

I did look at the NQF. Question, if someone achieves something at level 6, can that be transferred as credit into universities in the UK? What I'm getting at is, has the BCS established specific agreements with all of the universities that they list that will accept this as entry to their graduate programs, or is acceptance of an achievement deemed to be NQF level 6 standard practice?

Another question I would have is around the project that this requires. Does anyone know someone who has done this and perhaps completed the project?

MS

eMeS

NinjaBoy wrote: »

I'm a MBCS as well as a CITP, and quite a few people I know have also joined up and either have applied for the CITP or at least thinking about it.

Does being a member of the BCS and holding the CITP help career-wise in the UK? Does it help you earn more, does it provide access to better jobs, etc...?

MS

NinjaBoy

eMeS wrote: »

...I did look at the NQF. Question, if someone achieves something at level 6, can that be transferred as credit into universities in the UK?...

It depends...

eMeS wrote: »

...What I'm getting at is, has the BCS established specific agreements with all of the universities that they list that will accept this as entry to their graduate programs, or is acceptance of an achievement deemed to be NQF level 6 standard practice?...

The Uni's that are listed on the BCS website are ones where they will except the BCS qualifications as entry requirements onto their graduate programs (eg MA, MSc, PGCert, PGDip). For other universities in the UK, it would have to go thru an assessment to see if they will accept it. For the most part, they will accept it (at least for home students, not sure about overseas students).

Even though it's comparable or equivalent, they are assessed against a different educational framework. Further education is assessment against the NQF, while higher education (CertHE to PhD's) are assessed against the FHEQ. The mapping across is really a rough guide.

However for the majority of people with NQF level 6 qualifications they would be (for the most part) over 21, hence classed as a mature student. Being a mature student, you kinda get a different set of entry requirements into University (which is great):

Direct.gov.uk wrote:

Routes into higher education for mature students
Some mature students get into higher education with A levels or with equivalent, work-related qualifications (like NVQs or a BTEC).

But traditional qualifications aren’t always necessary. Some institutions may give you credit for professional qualifications or relevant work experience. Others won’t always ask for formal qualifications because the course itself has units aimed at giving you the right study skills and ‘foundation’ knowledge.

Finding out about entry requirements
Entry requirements vary between courses, so if you have one in mind it’s worth looking up the entry requirements online. To find out whether a university or college is willing to take your work experience into account, get in touch with the admissions tutor for your course.

See here.

-Ken

NinjaBoy

eMeS wrote: »

Does being a member of the BCS and holding the CITP help career-wise in the UK? Does it help you earn more, does it provide access to better jobs, etc...?

MS

Well the BCS are currently the only organisation able to award the CITP credential, they are in talk with other associations/organsations like the IET so that they can offer it also.

One thing to take into consideration is that the CITP is new compared to alot of other Chartered credentials (like the CEng) so it's still building recognition in the industry, added to that there are people who believe that IT is a sub-catagory of engineering so it should fall under the CEng. The only thing with this is that while some parts of IT do fall into engineering, there are parts of IT that do not. Hence one of the reasons why the CITP was developed, to encompass the IT industry as a whole and not just parts of it.

Anyway, back to the question... There are higher level IT jobs that now list the CITP as either a requirement or a desirable (not all of them do, mind you), the same thing goes for membership into a professional IT association. Now I state higher level IT jobs as the CITP is based on the person achieving at least level 5 of the SFIA. So to be fair the entry level to mid level IT job would not be stating this on the job advert, simply because they would not need that level of experience or skill at that level.

So it can, however nothing is guaranteed.

-Ken