Dealing with illegal software in the field !!!

Markie

Hi Guys.

I have just started up my own computer troubleshooting business and would like a few tips when it comes to dealing with illegal software (Microsoft products in particular).

For example: just the other day I visited a client who is almost 90 yrs old. He was running WinXP and it was taking about a half hour to boot up. Anyway, I agreed to take the machine back to my workshop to resolve the issue (as I would have more resources at my disposal). I should point out that as he is living in a nursing home, he does not have an internet connection.

Anyway, after trying a whole bunch of things to resolve the issue, I diagnosed the problem as a failing hard drive (event log was filled with disk SMART errors). This was backed up by other disk diagnosis tools.

So it seems that the only course of action is a Windows reinstall on to a spare 120GB hard drive I have in the workshop. (And Yes, 120GB is more than enough for a 90 yr old without an internet connection).

The problem I am facing but is that I cannot say for sure that the original installation of WinXP was a legitimate copy. I have used a well known (Microsoft approved ) tool to extract the product key from the machine. I suspect that the key may be corporate key (volume licence) but can't be a 100 percent sure at this stage.

One thing is for sure, the client did not have an authentic retail copy of an XP Pro cd nor is there an OEM sticker on the machine itself.

What can I do in such a situation? Unfortunately I cannot go to the computer store and purchase a new copy of XP as it is no longer for sale. The machine is about 7 yrs old so it aint going to run Vista.

Feel free to answer the question in general terms. I guess my main areas of concern are:

1) If I had not visited the site, the customer would have still been using illegal software. I did not install or propose to install illegal software.

2) Its not always easy or time effective to spend hours working out if the original installation was legitimate. In this case the customer had not had an internet connection for almost 4 years so "Genuine Advantage" was not going to assist me.

3) If I was to take any action (hypothetically speaking), I would be using the product keys extracted from the machine. I am thus not providing an illegal key, but rather just using the existing ones (which may or may not be legal).

4) If I cannot sight a legal copy of a disk or an OEM sticker etc, should I just be walking away from the job? Would doing a repair install be acceptable? Is a complete reinstall a definate NO NO?

As a business owner (armed with Microsoft qualifications), any tips on how to not turn away customers without breaching a "Microsoft Code of Conduct" (does that even exist?).

Reading though hundreds of published blacklisted product keys is not a time-effective solution. Relying on the Windows activation process is also not very effective. I have witnessed several legitimate product keys being denied during Windows Activation and vice versa.

Your thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

dynamik

I typically use the key that was originally on there. I give them the benefit of the doubt, and it's easy to lose those stickers, etc. If they tell me that everything they have is pirated, I tell them I'm not going to touch it. Also, you can still get XP at places like NewEgg.

RobertKaucher

At one place I worked as a tech we had a strict policy; If the end user could not provide us with both a disc and product key we were unable to perform a reinstallation.

In my own personal deals I am less strict. If the installation is clearly a legit OEM (IE it's an HP or something) I do my best to use the existing key if they have removed the sticker or it is worn too badly to read. I have managed to do well cloning even bad hard drives.

However, if there is overt piracy, as Dynamik mentioned, I inform them that I will not perform the reinstall untill I have a proper license key.

One thing I can say for sure is if you are serious about having your own business, talk to a lawyer about this. You can get all the information you want on the Internet, but talking to a professional face-to-face is probably best.

rsutton

For me it depends on what is pirated. If the OS is pirated I often wont fix it as I don't know the OS image they used is even clean or full of backdoors, rootkits etc. If they pirated the full version of Adobe I don't have a problem fixing their system. I figure it is not my place to judge them.

msteinhilber

If I am informed that software is pirated, I don't touch it at all for two reasons. First reason is they just admitted it was pirated and I would indirectly be contributing to piracy by solving any problems they have even if I was able to fix it without reinstalling. Second reason, when I worked for another company in the retail world we would still work on them and I found the customers with pirated software to be generally very cheap and would always bicker about prices and give you a hard time. They of course have the option of buying a copy of Windows from somewhere or have me get a legitimate license for them, and I'll take the computer in - but 9 out of 10 times they move on to try another avenue.

Most of the machines I work on though are typically from one of your major brands so it's fairly clear it is a legitimate OS, so if the COA is missing or worn off I'll reinstall if I can pull the key from the registry. It's the custom built machines that I end up turning away often, usually the ones built by a friend of the family or other "computer expert".

rsutton

I don't really see how fixing someone's computer who has pirated software on it would implicate you of anything unless you need to reinstall that software.

msteinhilber

rsutton wrote: »

For me it depends on what is pirated. If the OS is pirated I often wont fix it as I don't know the OS image they used is even clean or full of backdoors, rootkits etc. If they pirated the full version of Adobe I don't have a problem fixing their system. I figure it is not my place to judge them.

Do you fix any problems they might be having with the pirated Adobe software or would you reinstall it for them though? While it's not your place to judge them, I would be concerned about any service performed on a machine where you were aware of pirated software even if it did not specifically involve fixing issues with the pirated software.

aordal

The dude is 90. What don't they steal? plus, He's 90 and using a computer! My 60 year old father doesnt even know what a computer is. Bravo to that dude.

rsutton

I should have clarified. If working on their computer requires me personally to install or fix pirated software I would not do it. What I was saying is if they have pirated software, Adobe for example on their system and something else is broken, I have no problem fixing it.

LarryDaMan

Man, this is always a tough one. I would not check the car title if I was a mechanic, and I would not ask to see the receipt if I was a TV repair man... so in that context, I probably would not do any investigating. If someone tells you outright that it is pirated, then I guess you don't work on it.

Stotic

You can always plead ignorance. The guy is 90 and probably received the PC from a family member or the garbage.

Kaminsky

rsutton wrote: »

I should have clarified. If working on their computer requires me personally to install or fix pirated software I would not do it. What I was saying is if they have pirated software, Adobe for example on their system and something else is broken, I have no problem fixing it.

If your not happy doing it, don't do it.

I doubt he ripped the software himself and probably a family member donated it. Take it back to him and just say he needs a licence key. Better yet.. write it down what he needs so he can get someone else to sort it out for him.... If he lives that long.

networker050184

Kaminsky wrote: »

.... If he lives that long.

Nice one.

Markie

dynamik wrote: »

I typically use the key that was originally on there. I give them the benefit of the doubt, and it's easy to lose those stickers, etc. If they tell me that everything they have is pirated, I tell them I'm not going to touch it. Also, you can still get XP at places like NewEgg.

Sorry for late feedback on this old post. I thought I would just share with you guys my final feelings on this issue.

Well, Dynamik's post is basically the way I have been approaching this issue in my business dealings.

It seems based on everyone's answers, there is two approaches:

1. Limit the investigations until you receive information that you may in fact be dealing with pirated software.

2. Basically turn away every customer that cannot prove that they have a COA (i.e. either an OEM sticker or a valid retail CD with its matching product key.

I don't think you can take a mixture of these approaches. Its either one or the other or otherwise there is too many grey areas.

So yeah, as I said, I will be taking the first approach for now.

What I have been doing (as a basic level of investigation) is utilising the Microsoft Genuine website to validate Windows and Office installations in cases where I have not sighted a COA. Of course there is the activation process as well. These investigations are based on the product keys that were already present on the machine.

I realise that these steps don't guarantee that the software is legitimate but at least it is a step in the right direction.

After all, I am not the Microsoft Licencing police and I do on-sell their products in clear cut cases where piracy is apparent or when I am building a new machine.

With respect to the original case (the 90 yr old). I did go ahead with the job seeming as the O/S did pass the validation tests at the Microsoft Genuine website.

Yes, he was using a volume licence (corporate) key but I don't think this in itself means the software is illegal.

After all the nursing home may have purchased a volume licence (which would explain the sticker on the PC saying something like "xxx Nursing Home".

I was hardly going to go and approach their IT dept (that is if it exists) and make further investigations.

Oh well, whats done is done I guess. I hope he enjoys his refurbished PC. Good luck to him I say.

Solaris_UNIX

Markie wrote: »

Anyway, after trying a whole bunch of things to resolve the issue, I diagnosed the problem as a failing hard drive (event log was filled with disk SMART errors). This was backed up by other disk diagnosis tools.

So it seems that the only course of action is a Windows reinstall on to a spare 120GB hard drive I have in the workshop. (And Yes, 120GB is more than enough for a 90 yr old without an internet connection).

The SMART errors / IO errors on the drive were so bad that you couldn't just use Acronis to clone the drive (thus eliminating the need for a re-install)?

One of my buddies has used Acronis many times before in this same kind of situation to clone Windows OS drives that were giving off SMART errors and he said the cloning always worked. Anyone else here have similar experiences?

Just my 2 cents of useless advice: you're going to have a tough time competing with the likes of Geeksquad and what not if you don't have a solid disk-cloning tool like Acronis available for use in situations like this. I only say this because I'm trying to be helpful.

egamboacr

Good questions and points brought up.
While at Dell we never went into the details of someone's software legitimacy (or OS for that matter).
If it was Dell OEM software/OS, we fixed it, if it was NOT Dells, we didn't fix the OS but directed them on how to do it and the resources they could do it with EVEN if we suspected it being pirated and even if they admit it. It was in no way a breach of contract with MS for us to direct a pirate to fix their stuff.

On some rare occasions we had to fix software on a PC where we DIDN'T know if it was Dell OEM installed OS (operating system which we support). Like for example, they were running Win XP Media Center 2005 SP2 Dell OEM image when I know it shipped with XP SP1 Dell OEM image due to them having bought it at that time or because it was on the shipping slip maybe. There were ALL sorts of rules on this sort of thing and many things that would make it a breach of contract for us to support EVEN our own OEM image that a computer DIDNT ship with.

Many legal hurdles, but the rule of thumb was, if it wasn't 100% evident and I didn't have to pry around their shipping info to actually SEE the XP version and I didn't HAVE to go looking around the system window to check the XP Media Center Edition 2005 line (or i failed to spot it), MS won't hold us liable and we can troubleshoot away. Now if we DID install XP Media Center 2005 SP2 when the shipping system was SP 1 then we could be in a world of hurt and it would have been a breach of contract and technically illegal.

Of course we could have installed Windows XP SP2 or even SENT them a copy of Dell OEM SP2 just not MEDIA CENTER SP2. Catch my drift through all of this?

Ok to make things short (sorry if i confused anyone). Don't go prying around if you want to keep a customer. Their OS is none of their business as a technician. Like the guy above said, mechanics don't go prying around for your title, repair people don't ask you for your title to your house, and a TV repairman sure as hell won't ask for your receipt. Prying is unethical and on top of that, dealing with a customer (or potential customer) as a "potential" PIRATE out of suspicions is not ethical and not part of the job.

As a technician your job, like the mechanic above and the tv repair guy, is to fix the machine not to be sherlock holmes.

Now that I work on my own, and not for Dell anymore, I can honestly say I'm happier knowing I am not liable for anything I am not brought to the attention of and cannot possibly be held liable for that negligence because its not my job to be a police officer for Adobe, MS, Apple, etc...

Separate the blatantly obvious pirate from the somewhat legitimate customers (should be obvious after some time in the PC field) and you'll be OK.

So yeah I would have used Acronis to image that 90 yr old gentlemans harddrive in a heartbeat

mikedisd2

90 years old? The guy lived through WW2, the '29 stock crash and Tiny Tim.

Give him some respect and turn a blind eye, he doesn't need any more problems.