Frustrations for a wannabe CCVP job-seeker

Crunchyhippo

As I'm nearing the end of my CCVP pursuit, I'm looking more and more at what's on the job boards, and I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned. It seems the only job postings are by companies wanting 5+ years of previous voice experience and someone who can already design and implement a voice network - not someone wanting to enter the field after studying their butts off to get the VP. And these employers beg the question of how you were supposed to get the voice experience to begin with - that you're already supposed to have - without have prior voice experience to get that job.

As far as hands-on experience, let's face it - a voice lab is extremely expensive, and either VMWare or rack rentals are the best option. But they're not a substitute for doing real voice work in the real world. And unless you're already working for a "voice" employer, you need to get a job working for one.... But this is proving to be nigh impossible without prior experience.

It seems by the boards that there isn't a place for someone just obtaining the VP and having learned the technologies to just start out. We're all supposed to be brilliant right off the bat if the job ads are any indication. I sometimes think the employers are confusing a CCVP with a CCIE, considering some of the things they're asking for.

I've heard some say, "Do volunteer work to get experience; then you can put it on your resume." Well, have you ever heard of background checks? They're not going to let someone who's not even an employee - who's had to pass a check, btw - tinker with their voice network, especially when they don't know a thing about that person's background. For all they know, you could have been convicted of industrial espionage. Second, why are they going to waste their precious time to train or invest any time in you and divert it away from valuable employees? Scratch volunteering.

I think the best bet is to post your resume instead of replying to employers who think that just because you have a VP you're going to have the skills of an IE. That way the employers who are looking for an entry-level voice person will know where you are. No employer expects you to know all their programs and systems just walking in off the street - they train you on what you need to know. Anyone who tells you that you're expected to immediately be able to set up a voice network right away is a liar. At the NOC where I work, they wanted a CCNA, which I have. But they trained me in all the programs I use, and the knowledge that came with the CCNA aids me in what I have to do. It's not "do this CCNA-project today", then "tomorrow you have this CCNA-project to do." I just have the theory and knowledge when I need it, and I'll bet it's the same with a CCVP job.

Ultimately, I think trying to find a job by responding to a we-want-the-world job ad for a CCVP is a losing - and disheartening - proposition

Paul Boz

Telecom & Wireless Jobs: Telecommunications, IT, IP, VOIP, Unified Communications, Mobile & Cellular Careers- TelecomCareers.net

there are also other voice-specific and telecom-specific linkedin groups you can join to make contacts.

The CCVP is one of the more well-paid Cisco certifications on the market man. Don't get let down by the fact that less people are advertising jobs for it.

networker050184

I think the issue is that employers expect a person with a professional level certification to already have built the underlying hands on experience, I know I would. You may just be looking at jobs which you simply do not qualify for regardless of what certification you have.

My advice would be to find a job that voice would not be your primary role, but a secondary duty. That way you can gain the experience to put on the resume, but not have to be a voice expert to get the position. You may also think about relocating if you can't find anything in your area.

In the end an employer is going to want someone with experience over someone without. Thats just the way it is man. Put yourself in their shoes.

Crunchyhippo

Paul Boz wrote: »

Telecom & Wireless Jobs: Telecommunications, IT, IP, VOIP, Unified Communications, Mobile & Cellular Careers- TelecomCareers.net

there are also other voice-specific and telecom-specific linkedin groups you can join to make contacts.

The CCVP is one of the more well-paid Cisco certifications on the market man. Don't get let down by the fact that less people are advertising jobs for it.

Thanks for the recommendation. I did go to this website, but even when searching nationwide for all IT and Engineer positions, the only thing offered was from Verizon Wireless - sales jobs (retail). Maybe Verizon created the site to fill their shopping mall kiosk openings?

msteinhilber

Here's my $.02.

You are looking for an entry level job.

You have (nearly) a professional level certifications.

You are comparing companies seeking 5 years of experience in voice to be seeking out qualities of a CCIE. I really wouldn't consider 5 years of experience to be CCIE level experience, sure people with less than 5 years of experience hold CCIE's but I'm just being realistic.

In my opinion, I doubt you will have very good luck finding a job where you are immersed in voice. You are probably going to have to start out someplace where they utilize Cisco for voice and obtain a position where you might just do a little bit of voice support here and there mixed in with other duties (a helpdesk, network tech role, etc). And for those types of jobs, I'm not sure what you are specifically searching for - but you may need to tweak your search parameters to locate those types of jobs. That's how just about any other career in IT begins for most people, so I don't see that being any different for people desiring to get into a voice specialization.

I have the desire to get into either voice or a form of security myself, and I'm leaning more towards voice right now. I don't plan to jump right down the CCVP track quite yet though, I'm working towards getting my foot in the door where I can apply the skills I pickup as I move along. I really don't see myself getting any pro level certification until I'm in a position with a company that those skills might be beneficial, for the exact reasons you are posting about - difficulty entering the market with the certification and no experience.

GT-Rob

I thinking timing of the technologies is working against you right now. The reason you see lots of companies looking for people to do massive designs and implementations, is because thats what companies are doing right now. Obviously some companies have it set up already, but a lot of places are still doing the transition right now, and are not looking for people to learn on the job, but for people to hit the ground running.


Like Networker said, I think you are better off finding a job where VoIP is a secondary part of the role, and go from there. You may have the CCVP soon, but you still need to put in the time.

darkerosxx

I'm working on CCNA:V, then CCVP, then CCIE:V. My suggestion to you is to start networking with other CCVPs and CCIEs, in any way you can. These will be the people that will most likely help you find your first good gig.

Having said that, if you want to get into a position doing voice at the CCVP level, you need to have some way of showing you have experience proportional to the CCVP. Buck up and do whatever it takes to get the lab you need. Use the lab to start doing specific scenarios. Record your work and document it well. Include this kind of information in a cover letter and be prepared to talk about it in an interview. This can't compare to real experience, in my opinion, but it sure beats nothing.

Forsaken_GA

Honestly, I'd recommend going ahead and actually doing some of the work.

One of my home projects is to wire the house for VOIP in every room, and setup the equivalent to an office system. I won't be using Cisco Callmanager to do it, I'll be using Trixbox instead with Cisco phones, but that will also give me the ability to say I have hands on experience designing, implementing, and managing a VOIP network

apd123

You mention that no one will let you volunteer to work on their network because they don't know your background. Problem is no one is going to pay you to work on their network because they do know your background. Companies expect as close to zero downtime as possible and I feel most employers will feel nervous about hiring someone without experience. Most of us got our start in this field doing the little things for example entering some phones in call manager after the system has already been deployed. Cisco VOIP has only been around for a short time a company asking for 5+ years direct voice experience is a senior level position and not suitable if you have not worked in a live setting. I wish you luck and hope you are open to a more basic networking role that affords you some exposure to Cisco VOIP products.

shednik

Crunchy I thought you had a job in networking already? What happened to that gig?

pitviper

With professional level pay comes professional level responsibilities.

Claymoore

Crunchyhippo wrote: »

As I'm nearing the end of my CCVP pursuit, I'm looking more and more at what's on the job boards, and I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned. It seems the only job postings are by companies wanting 5+ years of previous voice experience and someone who can already design and implement a voice network - not someone wanting to enter the field after studying their butts off to get the VP. And these employers beg the question of how you were supposed to get the voice experience to begin with - that you're already supposed to have - without have prior voice experience to get that job.

...

Ultimately, I think trying to find a job by responding to a we-want-the-world job ad for a CCVP is a losing - and disheartening - proposition

Keep in mind that the postings list their ideal candidate. They may want a CCVP with 5 years experience who is willing to take below-market pay, but they'll take what they can get. Apply for the jobs anyway. As long as you don't lie about your experience, what's the worst that can happen?

Kaminsky

Some great advice in this thread. Here's another avenue to think about.

If you were to join a big IT company but in a lower role, they have a lot of internal only job postings where the CCVP would flag up. You would obviously have to do the initial job for a while but once your in, your in.

With an emerging technology such as voice, the existing VP guy/gal would be the one doing the internal interviewing and would know you for what you are and would also realise where they would be able to take you.

Once you get the pro cert, it could turn out to be a sweet shortcut. Pro certs will open doors regardless of experience if used wisely.

Crunchyhippo

Kaminsky wrote: »

Some great advice in this thread. Here's another avenue to think about.

If you were to join a big IT company but in a lower role, they have a lot of internal only job postings where the CCVP would flag up. You would obviously have to do the initial job for a while but once your in, your in.

With an emerging technology such as voice, the existing VP guy/gal would be the one doing the internal interviewing and would know you for what you are and would also realise where they would be able to take you.

Once you get the pro cert, it could turn out to be a sweet shortcut. Pro certs will open doors regardless of experience if used wisely.

Yes, I think so, too. Having a mid-level cert is oftentimes like having a useless degree. Just the fact that you have a degree will open doors for you.

Another idea is to find the Cisco Partners in your area and send them your resume. To be a Cisco Partner requires an employer to have X number of Cisco certified employees, so they *have* to go looking for qualified and certified people if they want to continue to receive Cisco discounts, service, etc. I was surprised at how many companies were Cisco Gold Partners not only in my area, but in the surrounding areas, too.