How big is a linux mail server in the IT industry?

dynamik

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Now, I know it seems like I come across pretty anti-Microsoft.

You really don't. I like to tease a bit, but I've enjoyed hearing your opinions. Healthy discussions are always great.

msteinhilber

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Properly deployed, CentOS and Debian make very, very reliable platforms. We host some very large and well known names in the e-commerce world, and by and large, it's all done on Linux.

When it comes down to it, this is very true. There are a lot of very popular websites that are hosted on their own dedicated server(s) that often run CentOS, Debian, or FreeBSD. They could work on a Windows server, sure, but when I was running a hosting firm back in the days I only supported Linux systems. If I had a client that really insisted on Windows based hosting I would direct them to a popular Windows host and if they wanted to colo I would not offered any managed services since it just wasn't my thing. Partly because I didn't know enough about Windows Server at that point and partly because I didn't feel it was the best choice for hosting.

Forsaken_GA

Yup. Folks who think that *x isn't well deployed and who use Firefox, should install the ServerSpy add-on and take note of how few websites come up as IIS. techexams.net, for example, is run from a Red Hat box.

Hyper-Me

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I think you'd be surprised at how many enterprises are using Linux, BSD, or Solaris.

I will admit that in the collaboration department, open source software loses the duel. There are good enterprise collaboration tools that run on some form of Unix, but they all cost money as well. So sure, I'd agree that I wouldn't run collaboration on linux.

But I also wouldn't even dream of running core services on a Windows platform. Properly deployed, CentOS and Debian make very, very reliable platforms. We host some very large and well known names in the e-commerce world, and by and large, it's all done on Linux. For the folks who do have Windows servers, it's usually for one reason, and one reason only - Flash Media Server. (Adobe will only support Red Hat Enterprise, but it's much easier overall to use FMS on a Windows platform.) And we've recently gotten folks away from doing that by using lighttpd or apache's flash streaming modules, which have been more reliable than FMS, and end up saving the customer money to boot.

Now, I know it seems like I come across pretty anti-Microsoft. The truth of the matter is that I'm pretty OS agnostic. I believe in choosing the best tool for the job, and there are things that Windows is better at. ColdFusion immediately comes to mind. I absolutely *hate* supporting it on a Linux platform.

But when it comes down to it, insisting on using one type of platform is alot like using a flathead screwdriver when it's a phillips head screw. Sure, it might be possible, and with enough practice, you can get pretty good at it, but it's still less efficient and presents the opportunity for more pain.

Lol. Changing your reasoning to refer to Web hosting defeats the entire purpose of discussing mail servers. I would not argue against apache over IIS any day (although IIS is perfectly fine for small to medium size sites as well).

When it comes to mail servers, i dont know of much (if any) open-source nix based mail servers that come close to the robustness and popularity of exchange.

And yeah, there are definitely places where nix shines and should be used, but there are also places that I would never even think of trying to use a nix solution (directory services, for one)

msteinhilber

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Lol. Changing your reasoning to refer to Web hosting defeats the entire purpose of discussing mail servers. I would not argue against apache over IIS any day (although IIS is perfectly fine for small to medium size sites as well).

When it comes to mail servers, i dont know of much (if any) open-source nix based mail servers that come close to the robustness and popularity of exchange.

And yeah, there are definitely places where nix shines and should be used, but there are also places that I would never even think of trying to use a nix solution (directory services, for one)

Actually, if you read this thread in it's entirety he did not change his reasoning. He clearly states from the very beginning that for internal mail you are likely to see some form of collaborative messaging system such as Exchange. He then goes on to state in a hosting environment (which a lot of small to medium businesses use for a web presence and e-mail) it is likely a *nix based solution. Shortly after that, other people - yourself being one of them, took the thread into a *nix vs Microsoft battle. Further more, even if he did change his reasoning, it doesn't defeat the purpose of discussing mail servers as a large portion of web servers also host e-mail.

As far as directory services, there are a LOT of universities that use Unix/Linux servers and LDAP.

Hyper-Me

msteinhilber wrote: »

As far as directory services, there are a LOT of universities that use Unix/Linux servers and LDAP.

and? Its not like Univerisities can do no wrong. You will always have a variance in any industry. An example is the hippy Berkeley that uses Open Directory....possibly the worst form of Directory Services available, but they swear by their precious Apple stuff.

msteinhilber

Hyper-Me wrote: »

and? Its not like Univerisities can do no wrong. You will always have a variance in any industry. An example is the hippy Berkeley that uses Open Directory....possibly the worst form of Directory Services available, but they swear by their precious Apple stuff.

You missed my point. You stated there are many places you would never consider directory services, while *nix can be used and used well for directory services as well as I pointed out.

Just because you dislike something due to lack of experience or just plain don't like dealing with it doesn't mean it's a terrible thing. And making sweeping statements such as your opening statement in this thread regarding sendmail really don't add anything at all to the discussion. Had you backed it up with examples or even provided a bit more depth, then your original post in this thread would have merit as would other posts you have made on the forums. Anyways, this is gearing away from the topic now.

Back on topic, how big of a role Linux plays in the IT industry for serving mail applications really varies. It depends a lot on the size of the organization. A majority of the large organizations that I know about of have had past professional experiences with utilize Exchange or Lotus Notes. A good portion of the small to medium sized businesses that I did work for were often through something as simple as a shared web hosting account (likely Linux based) or a managed dedicated server if their website required more horsepower (again, typically Linux based). There were some of those small to medium sized businesses that recognized the need for something more robust and would go with a hosted Exchange solution. I worked for a large retail organization and we used Linux for hosting e-mail for our employees as well as our ISP division (some 25,000 users). It all sat behind two Linux spam assassin boxes, and it worked well. So the real answer is it depends on your needs and your own experience and what you feel comfortable supporting.

Hyper-Me

I didnt say that NIS domains dont work well or arent effective, but i beleive that Active Directory is by far the most robust and capable directory services platform available today. Some people may not agree, but i think most would. I think most would also agree that Apache is likely the best web server platform available. That doesnt mean that IIS isnt capable, it just isnt AS good.

Forsaken_GA

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Lol. Changing your reasoning to refer to Web hosting defeats the entire purpose of discussing mail servers. I would not argue against apache over IIS any day (although IIS is perfectly fine for small to medium size sites as well).

I'm hardly changing my reasoning, I said straight out that it all depends on context. Not every company does the same thing, and some companies host mail servers with their webservers, or we do it on our mail cluster. I know more than a few companies that use linux for email, google calendar for their calendar, and jabber for their instant messaging - I know it because we're hosting their servers.

When it comes to mail servers, i dont know of much (if any) open-source nix based mail servers that come close to the robustness and popularity of exchange.

Well sure, I'm not arguing that. But if I need to prune a rose bush, I'm not going to take a scythe to it. I suspect you're probably a product of your environment, and I have no doubt that your opinions are perfectly valid and appropriate for it. I just wish you'd keep a bit more of an open mind and realize that folks do things differently, and there's more than one way to slay a dragon

And yeah, there are definitely places where nix shines and should be used, but there are also places that I would never even think of trying to use a nix solution (directory services, for one)

Properly deployed LDAP is perfectly fine for directory services. The problem is that once you do anything remotely complex, you usually have to hire an LDAP developer, or make one of your developers learn LDAP. It's very popular in university environments (which is true of alot of open source, there's a reason why alot of universities are big contributors to the open source world).