Inexperienced but highly qualified people having troubles in getting a job!

curtisdaley

The large majority of IT jobs are asking for experienced professionals and there isn't much room in the market for newly qualified workers! Do you think the situation will change?

WilliamK99

No, and you can blame folks about 10 years ago for this.

Quite a few companies got burned by "paper certs" basically those who used Brain **** and other nefarious means to get the certifications, but then when hired, really f'd things up because they had no idea what they were doing.

You basically need experience nowadays to get any decent job besides entry level (Helpdesk etc).

jbrad95706

Yes.

Until then keep looking - every now and then I see a Jr position that is willing to take someone with a few certs and a brain.

kalebksp

I would say that there is no such thing as a inexperienced highly qualified person. Certifications without experience basically make you entry level with a head start. You have to work your way up, there aren't any shortcuts. (Of course you might occasionally find stories about someone who was extremely lucky or exceptionally gifted, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.)

jbrad95706

WilliamK99 wrote: »

No, and you can blame folks about 10 years ago for this.

Quite a few companies got burned by "paper certs" basically those who used Brain **** and other nefarious means to get the certifications, but then when hired, really f'd things up because they had no idea what they were doing.

You basically need experience nowadays to get any decent job besides entry level (Helpdesk etc).

It's true that 10 years ago people were running around with certs for things they new nothing about. I don't blame the people that took advantage of this as much as I blame the companies. (I'm not saying I don't blame these people...) The tests were easy to prep for using **** etc... and they required little or no hands.

It's getting better though.

mikej412

curtisdaley wrote: »

The large majority of IT jobs are asking for experienced professionals and there isn't much room in the market for newly qualified workers!

You have nothing to lose by applying for some of the "2-5 years experience" jobs. Back in the "old days" a highly motivated and highly qualified but inexperienced noob would sometimes get a shot -- since they were usually willing to work cheaper then the experienced highly motivated and highly qualified and highly experienced job candidates.

But with the current state of the economy (and job cuts and lack of new jobs), there are lots of highly motivated (to get any paycheck) highly qualified (at least on paper) and experienced (highly, average, or at least on paper) people going for the same jobs -- and lots of them are willing to work for less now.

Mark Knutson

Having been in the technology business for over 30 years, I can tell you that getting a job when you have little or no practical experience has always been a challenge. Do what you have to do to get a job in your chosen field, and don't worry about compensation until you have a year or more of experience. As has been pointed out, the world is full of people who have passed cert exams, though cisco certs are better than most. A noob is a noob, and if you are truly brilliant but unappreciated due to no experience, than there will be plenty of years in your career to get properly recognized and compensated.

Also, be careful about taking a help desk job and hoping it will develop into something more. It may or may not, and while you have to pay the rent, if its a dead end job, don't stop looking for the position more in line with what you are looking for.

Back when I was starting out in the olden days, when we had to walk 5 miles to school and so on, a computer cost a million dollars and you were at the mercy of the employer to get experience. Now you can buy a computer--or network gear in this case--and get some hands on.

I'm kind of guessing here, but maybe you can sign on with a consulting group stringing wires and move up from there. Hustle and be creative. Very few of us have employers chasing us around waving $100 bills begging us to work for them--at least not until you get your ccie....

curtisdaley

I suppose i'll just have to try and lab the hell out of the labs at Uni!

curtisdaley

I've seen a few ok Desktop jobs asking just for knowledge and not certs or experience and others asking for the full whammy, 2 - 5 years exp, MCSA, CCAN and even degree's for a telephone job thats ridiculous in my eyes!

Xenz

If anyone finds a job that you feel is beneath you, please let me know! At this point it's likely I will be creating a small folder of information to go along with my resume outlining all the VM's I run/labs I've done so maybe I can get noticed or at least past the first screening. Even starting out at the bottom seems to be a problem in this economy.

I'm in the unique position of 0 help desk related jobs in the area, but slighly more than 0 positions related to network/systems administration wanting 2+ years experience. My plan of landing something is to continue with certifications and the information packet I mentioned above. Maybe something else such as a DVD with some powerpoint presentation with the information I planned to include with the packet / video resume (even though this could be detrimental to the cause). I'm hoping if I push for the MCSA I could fit the bill for some Windows Server related experience.

All the PC repair work I did is mostly discarded because I've lost contact with my customer base. I gave up advertising and service once I decided to focus on college 2 years ago. I'm not sure I would even want employers contacting some of my problem customers (the ones who could break their PC's 3 hours after they got it back).

WilliamK99

jbrad95706 wrote: »

It's true that 10 years ago people were running around with certs for things they new nothing about. I don't blame the people that took advantage of this as much as I blame the companies. (I'm not saying I don't blame these people...) The tests were easy to prep for using **** etc... and they required little or no hands.

It's getting better though.

It's getting alot better, 4 years ago, a workmate of mine passed his CCNA by basically visiting brain **** and memorizing questions, well this year he went to re-cert and failed miserably, he got pissed because there is now hands on portion which kicked his behind...

I had to smile a bit on the inside, so yes most companies are getting smarter to help increase the value of holding their respective certs...

billscott92787

It doesn't pay off to **** ever, in any way shape or form. It eventually comes back to bite you in the butt. The economy is tough right now. I have a friend in my area that is a CCIE, and he can't find a job. He has had a potential few line-ups. But, they have all fell through. I'm not sure why, because he is one of the most knowledgeable dudes that I know. He has one of those photographic memories that everyone has been talking about on here. There really is nothing he can not do. He passed it on the first try as well. Pretty smart dude.

apd123

billscott92787 wrote: »

It doesn't pay off to **** ever, in any way shape or form. It eventually comes back to bite you in the butt. The economy is tough right now. I have a friend in my area that is a CCIE, and he can't find a job. He has had a potential few line-ups. But, they have all fell through. I'm not sure why, because he is one of the most knowledgeable dudes that I know. He has one of those photographic memories that everyone has been talking about on here. There really is nothing he can not do. He passed it on the first try as well. Pretty smart dude.

Has your friend posted his resume online? Is he willing to commute to the DC/MD/VA area? I read posts like these online and they had me a little scared going into the job market being jobless for 6 months while studying. Now I am just confused by these posts as my experience of jobless with a CCIE was in such contrast. I never applied for a job and got the price range I wanted like 4 months ago. I had so many calls I stopped answering and likely have less experience than your friend based upon my guesstimate of the average CCIE.

OP - The jobs I see in this industry it is almost impossible for someone to be inexperienced and highly qualified. I can't even think of a job where the original statement would fit. Four years ago I was at a help desk nothing wrong with starting at the bottom.

rsutton

Inexperienced but highly qualified

You havn't mentioned what type of jobs you are looking for; a lot of entry level work does not require experience but instead looks for skills. I just did a search for "entry" in the technical support section of Craigslist and found a page full of jobs that you could apply for. You could do the same for the bigger job boards as well.

curtisdaley

What I meant by that statement is by having certs and so on, but no much in job experience, as when my friends have applied for jobs in the past, employers have said to them, its fine you having your certs and i'm sure you can actually do what you say you can do, but because you don't have in role time served i can't employ you! I've got a close friend with an A+, MCP in XP and CCNA who can't get a job, he's been applying for jobs, for 6 months and still no luck!

rsutton

What types of jobs are you applying for?

Stotic

What job sites are you using? Besides Craigslist, I'd recommend indeed.com and dice.com

Cyanic

Here is some advice on the subject.

1. Network and get to know IT persons in your area. You may be even able to meet some here. The more people you know the better your chances of hearing about a job that is not publically posted or simply getting your foot in the door. Sometimes it is not what you know, it is who you know.

2. Find out the tech companies and other potential employers in your area. Find out where they post jobs, and monitor those areas regularly.

3. Apply for the job even if you feel you are not 100% qualified. Sometimes people are hired that are not 100% qualified according to the job posting. We have if the candidate shows promise and we think they can easily come up to speed in the areas they are lacking.

Oh, be honest in the interview if you are not strong in a certain area. The employer will remember a dishonest candidate, and if a job becomes available that you are more qualified for… well you burned that bridge already.

4. Don’t give up. Getting your first IT job can be the hardest test you will ever face in your career. If you get discouraged, read up on the Col. Sanders story.

I have sat as a technical liaison on many interviews, and anyone who is a paper cert is easily weeded out. It is actually pretty fun drilling the candidates to find out how much they really know. So I agree with the poster that says it is the employers fault for not doing a thorough interview.

rsutton

That is indeed good advice Cyanic.

curtisdaley

Thanks for your valid advice everyone, eh jobcentreplus.com cwjobs.com and londonjobs.com

i wanted to do network engineering at an isp, just requires ccna really the jobs i've been looking at aswell as the other jobs ie network design companies

it management or network manager/adminstrator jobs are to fare above me, you know, mcsa and so on. i suppose i'll have to settle with help desk at the moment looks a lot easier to get into, seen many positions on the jobcentreplus website asking for specific lengths served in that kind of role or not to many certs or none at all, thanks again

wbosher

Helpdesk jobs are a great place to start. Most require no qualification or experience and it gets you a foot in the IT door. While on a helpdesk you often have to speak to engineers and the like, and you will often get quite friendly with some of them. They are invaluable people to know when looking at climbing the ladder.

rsutton

Helpdesk + Aptitude is the natural progression to bigger and better things.

curtisdaley

In todays world, being very competitve and all, nothing is below an individual anymore, doing helpdesk while holding CCNA and MCSA not just A+ is becoming standard, i suppose building up some time serve before being able to move on to bigger things is becoming standard practice i suppose!

Ashenwelt

curtisdaley wrote: »

The large majority of IT jobs are asking for experienced professionals and there isn't much room in the market for newly qualified workers! Do you think the situation will change?

Nope. But I think you are a bit off. If you are applying for entry level positions, those positions often do not want high level certs. High level certs mean you are going to want to do more. This could be advance in the company or leave. This is when you get declared over qualified.

So, I wouldn't really be all that stressed on it. Entry level is still entry level.

curtisdaley

I suppose so, i think i might chill out now hehe!

fieldmonkey

I feel that in the US, many companies are in the process of outsourcing their IT work, even more. This includes a tremendous amount of the entry level work that Americans could be doing, but the companies only have to pay foreign workers a fraction of the salary. This has put a strain on all entry level IT work, especially with bigger companies.

The jobs are just not there, because someone in India, Mexico or elsewhere will do it cheaper or you have to work in a shop with a small IT staff and hold several talents/skills.

Personally I think any US company that makes profits in this country has a responsibility to maintain their workforce in that country. Same kind of thing happened in the manufacturing back in the 80's and it is happening now in technology. Our government is the only one that can stop it, but most of them are in bed with the lobbyist of these corporations.

DerekAustin26

rpfutrell wrote: »

I feel that in the US, many companies are in the process of outsourcing their IT work, even more. This includes a tremendous amount of the entry level work that Americans could be doing, but the companies only have to pay foreign workers a fraction of the salary. This has put a strain on all entry level IT work, especially with bigger companies.

The jobs are just not there, because someone in India, Mexico or elsewhere will do it cheaper or you have to work in a shop with a small IT staff and hold several talents/skills.

Personally I think any US company that makes profits in this country has a responsibility to maintain their workforce in that country. Same kind of thing happened in the manufacturing back in the 80's and it is happening now in technology. Our government is the only one that can stop it, but most of them are in bed with the lobbyist of these corporations.

Right on! I just got laid of last month because the company that my company was contracted with outsourced our whole NOC Group to KL, Mulaysia! P$$d me off!