Is CCNP cert a crime without experience?

hooklow

I come across a conundrum: pursue CCNP not being able to use most of it at work at the time but learn a great deal or regurgitate CCNA material to the point one starts quoting himself.
I’m tying to expand on ideas learned in CCNA but don’t want to fit the stereotype of “paper cert”,do I keep going and not get certified or get certified and not tell anyone? Quest is the same yet cert somehow validates the knowledge. I bet most of us read/learn about thing we don’t work with just to see how they work. What does one do?

ryanlin2002

A crime? of course not. It's your life. Would I or anyone hire a CCNP without any experience to manage the network? No, because it's too risky. There is a whole lot of the real world stuff that isn't covered in the CCNP studies.

hooklow

I'm not trying to get a job and if I did I would not lye about my experience, but don't you find yourself doing your job better knowing more than required?

ryanlin2002

Sure. There is nothing wrong with studying for CCNP while you are at your job or looking for a job. The materials that you are learning from your CCNP studies will keep you sharp.

Once you get an entry level job in networking, be sure to let the engineers know your goal/intentions. Ask them to see if you can shoulder surf. Most of the time they will say yes, and go from there.

suffah

I'm working towards my CCNP without any real experience. But I'm not crazy and don't expect some to land a Middle/Sr. level network engineering level job. I'm looking for an entry-level position. I don't see how it can hurt my chances?

seraphus

Pursue it. If you have the opportunity, do it. Downside: You could run the risk be being seen as overqualified for an entry level position by an HR rep or hiring manager. Upside: Not that the NP is a requirement, but you could continue with your studies and pursue the CCIE.

jovan88

I'm persuing CCNP and I have very little experience. With all the competition thats out there I wouldn't be worried about being over qualified.

Turgon

hooklow wrote: »

I come across a conundrum: pursue CCNP not being able to use most of it at work at the time but learn a great deal or regurgitate CCNA material to the point one starts quoting himself.
I’m tying to expand on ideas learned in CCNA but don’t want to fit the stereotype of “paper cert”,do I keep going and not get certified or get certified and not tell anyone? Quest is the same yet cert somehow validates the knowledge. I bet most of us read/learn about thing we don’t work with just to see how they work. What does one do?

How are you supposed to learn something new if your work environment provides no outlet? Certification is one of the best ways. So continue with the CCNP studies. You will find a lot of work environments these days have timeserved people who are actively encouraged to obtain certifications but procrastinate over doing so. Your qualifications will impress someone sooner or later who is doing the hiring is such an environment.

The rub here is that certifications do not necessarily equip you to do a job of work in a given field setting. There are many reasons for this and not all are technical reasons. Many networks are organic creatures that have evolved in all sorts of directions over time. This is very different from the vanilla examples one finds in Cisco Press books and such. neither will the CCNP teach you that feature x actually sucks and really shouldn't be used when alternative approaches are much better.

Nevertheless, certification provides you with a structured syllabus to follow that will introduce you to technologies, concepts and techniques that you might understand a little better than if you were simply grinding out change control tickets in a work environment. It demostrates you have some awareness of what technology is capable of which is a good thing. Of course just because you know something about what *can* be done doesn't necessarily mean you *should* do it on a production network. The right experience and aptitude teaches the answers to that

So long as you dig that, I think progressing your CCNP plans may be very helpful.

kalebksp

Turgon wrote: »

How are you supposed to learn something new if your work environment provides no outlet? Certification is one of the best ways. So continue with the CCNP studies. You will find a lot of work environments these days have timeserved people who are actively encouraged to obtain certifications but procrastinate over doing so. Your qualifications will impress someone sooner or later who is doing the hiring is such an environment.

The rub here is that certifications do not necessarily equip you to do a job of work in a given field setting. There are many reasons for this and not all are technical reasons. Many networks are organic creatures that have evolved in all sorts of directions over time. This is very different from the vanilla examples one finds in Cisco Press books and such. neither will the CCNP teach you that feature x actually sucks and really shouldn't be used when alternative approaches are much better.

Nevertheless, certification provides you with a structured syllabus to follow that will introduce you to technologies, concepts and techniques that you might understand a little better than if you were simply grinding out change control tickets in a work environment. It demostrates you have some awareness of what technology is capable of which is a good thing. Of course just because you know something about what *can* be done doesn't necessarily mean you *should* do it on a production network. The right experience and aptitude teaches the answers to that

So long as you dig that, I think progressing your CCNP plans may be very helpful.

I agree with this 100%, you describe my approach to certification exactly.

hooklow, I have no real experience beyond basic switch configurations, but as you can see I have two professional Cisco certifications. As long as I'm realistic about what those certifications really mean and don't let the knowledge stagnant there really is no downside, in my opinion.

nel

Turgon wrote: »

How are you supposed to learn something new if your work environment provides no outlet? Certification is one of the best ways. So continue with the CCNP studies. You will find a lot of work environments these days have timeserved people who are actively encouraged to obtain certifications but procrastinate over doing so. Your qualifications will impress someone sooner or later who is doing the hiring is such an environment.

The rub here is that certifications do not necessarily equip you to do a job of work in a given field setting. There are many reasons for this and not all are technical reasons. Many networks are organic creatures that have evolved in all sorts of directions over time. This is very different from the vanilla examples one finds in Cisco Press books and such. neither will the CCNP teach you that feature x actually sucks and really shouldn't be used when alternative approaches are much better.

Nevertheless, certification provides you with a structured syllabus to follow that will introduce you to technologies, concepts and techniques that you might understand a little better than if you were simply grinding out change control tickets in a work environment. It demostrates you have some awareness of what technology is capable of which is a good thing. Of course just because you know something about what *can* be done doesn't necessarily mean you *should* do it on a production network. The right experience and aptitude teaches the answers to that

So long as you dig that, I think progressing your CCNP plans may be very helpful.

Words of a wise man!

mella060

I too am in a similar situation. I completed my CCNA back in early may after around six months of solid study. I have been off work for the past year and a half with injury's and am still unable to work. Should be right in the next month or two.

Over the past month or two i have been debating whether to go ahead and start studying for either the BSCI or BCMSN. Ive watched some of the CBT Nuggets and Train signal videos which really helps in getting the blood flowing again. Ive learnt more about things like multilarea OSPF and multilayer switching and CEF, which cant be a bad thing.

At the moment i am going through a couple of books which are perfect for expanding the knowledge to the next level. One is called Network Warrior which is titled "everything that wasnt on the CCNA exam" A lot of real world stuff in there. And CCNP level stuff. The other is called Cisco Network Professionals Advanced Internetworking guide which has only just come out. Check them out on amazon and read some of the reviews on them. Very encouraging. Both of them pretty much say "If you have your CCNA or equivalent knowledge, your next step is to get these books"

I'll be going through these books first before i commit to any more exams

Cyanic

Certification tells you that a tomato is a fruit.
Experience tells you that a tomato does not go in a fruit salad.

phoeneous

I'm going to go slightly off tangent here and ask, why do you list both CCENT and CCNA under your name? One gives you the other. Does having the extra letters provide you with some sort of meaningless fulfillment? Just curious.

msteinhilber

ryanlin2002 wrote: »

A crime? of course not. It's your life. Would I or anyone hire a CCNP without any experience to manage the network? No, because it's too risky. There is a whole lot of the real world stuff that isn't covered in the CCNP studies.

Certainly not a crime, if you desire to pursue the CCNP by all means go for it.

I however would hire an individual with a CCNP without the experience to backup the certification, but you wouldn't be performing CCNP level tasks and you wouldn't be commanding CCNP level pay. But I would provide you with a means to build experience and gradually progress into CCNP territory.

accely

Exactly my thoughts, what others are saying.

It's not entirely about getting a cert to claim "i can do everything in the exam topics". It's a point that if you were put into a position where the topics were to arise then you'd have a fairly decent understanding and probably be able to catch on alot quicker than someone else.

I get decent exposure to the various topics that I'm studying in the CCNP, actually I think I get alot of good hands on, but I still don't expect to go right into a networking position where I'm on my own managing everything. I do expect to be looked at as someone who can perform a good amount of basic tasks with supervision, and gradually come up to full steam of what an experienced CCNP can do.

-Dan

SysAdmin4066

Its no different than listing MCSA and MCSE 2003. One would theoretically give you the other, but I got my SA before I got my SE and it was an accomplishment in itself. I think the same would apply to the CCENT.

I agree with all of the other posts. You do need to back that up at some point with some experience though. It will not net you the things that an experienced CCNP will have i.e. assignments and pay.

fonque

I got my CCNA then got a job, and took a year off from studying certs to learn the job. There are a lot of aspects to a networking job, that no cert touches, or is really expected to touch.

The hardest aspect for me to learn, was how to balance troubleshooting/technical development with management expectations and customer expectations. You have to keep the people who pay you happy and that is all about perception.

nel

phoeneous wrote: »

I'm going to go slightly off tangent here and ask, why do you list both CCENT and CCNA under your name? One gives you the other. Does having the extra letters provide you with some sort of meaningless fulfillment? Just curious.

Its because the CCENT and CCNA are seen as individual certs if achieved through the 2 exam route.