Anyone set up a linux desktop/server?

L0gicB0mb508

Just because you have "expert level knowledge" in one domain does mean you can say to a beginner that they will have no problems with it. While I agree with you saying its not that big and scary it is still a large undertaking to learn all the useful commands.


Good luck on your Linux studies knwminus.

varelg

For a quick and painless tryout of linux on any machine try Ubuntu's Wubi installer. The most obvious benefit of wubi is you get to test if your hardware will work under Ubuntu, most notably the wireless adapter. If you didn't like what you saw for any reason, you can uninstall Ubuntu just like any other win app, from the control panel. No risks like possible loss of data with partition resizing in dual booting.

fleck

varelg wrote: »

For a quick and painless tryout of linux on any machine try Ubuntu's Wubi installer. The most obvious benefit of wubi is you get to test if your hardware will work under Ubuntu, most notably the wireless adapter. If you didn't like what you saw for any reason, you can uninstall Ubuntu just like any other win app, from the control panel. No risks like possible loss of data with partition resizing in dual booting.

Arguably, a Live CD is even better.

kimanyd

There's actually a few others than ipconfig and tracert, and PoSh is an entirely different animal. I know someone who is a PoSh guru and enjoys these types of threads. Maybe he'll chime in...

HeroPsycho

fleck wrote: »

Nah. You're talking about access servers with specialized purposes. Windows will always be mainly GUI for like 99% of things. For nix it just so happens that that's the way it's always been and it's still preferred to have shell skills for system maintenance. For Windows it's not even necessary.

Please actually have experience with recent Windows server products before talking about this like you know something.

PowerShell is now a part of the Common Criteria for all new Microsoft server products, including OS's. Every single new product must have PowerShell integration from here on out. Windows 2008 R2 will be the same. In fact, Exchange 2007/2010 is built on PowerShell. The GUI's simply issue PowerShell strings.

And even without PowerShell, when there's an entire mode of installation called Windows Core without a GUI whatsoever, your argument is way off base.

fleck wrote: »

Why, because ipconfig and tracert are gonna break my fingers? I'm pretty sure that 'powershell mastermind' isn't a prerequisite for Windows Server admin. Is it really popular with anyone except code monkeys?

If you don't know PowerShell, you cannot effectively deploy Exchange 2007, and your ability to manage Exchange 2007 is suspect. With E2K7 being the first server side product with full PoSh integration, what do you think the trend is?

K thx.

Hyper-Me

Fleck you couldnt be more wrong, man, sorry.

Dynamik, HeroPyscho and Msteinhilber pointed out why, so i dont need to go into that.

RobertKaucher

fleck wrote: »

Nah. You're talking about access servers with specialized purposes. Windows will always be mainly GUI for like 99% of things. For nix it just so happens that that's the way it's always been and it's still preferred to have shell skills for system maintenance. For Windows it's not even necessary.

Um, I spend easily 25% or more of my time as an admin at the CLI in Windows. If I can avoid doing something via the gui I do, because it's faster and more accurate via the command shell. While I agree it's not necessary with the introduction of Server Core and PowerShell it is more and more important.

RobertKaucher

HeroPsycho wrote: »

If you don't know PowerShell, you cannot effectively deploy Exchange 2007, and your ability to manage Exchange 2007 is suspect. With E2K7 being the first server side product with full PoSh integration, what do you think the trend is?

K thx.

All I can say about this is I am very excited about PoSh with SharePoint 2010. The amount of admin work that I have done with WSS 3.0 just amazes me and this is basically with no built in integration. I have not heard anything but I can only imagine that we will see something similar to what they did with Exchange 07 in the next version of SharePoint.

Bl8ckr0uter

Wow guys. I just wanted advice on linux. Geez

RobertKaucher

knwminus wrote: »

Wow guys. I just wanted advice on linux. Geez

We usurp your thread and substitute our own.

kimanyd

Hijacked threads are the most fun anyway

Bl8ckr0uter

While we are on the subject:

PoSH and Windows Admin work.

Since I would like to obtain this job I am interviewing for tommorow, more than likely I will go for the MCSA after the CCNA. What is the best way to learn powershell and what is powershell used for in daily monitoring/admin work?

Hyper-Me

knwminus wrote: »

While we are on the subject:

PoSH and Windows Admin work.

Since I would like to obtain this job I am interviewing for tommorow, more than likely I will go for the MCSA after the CCNA. What is the best way to learn powershell and what is powershell used for in daily monitoring/admin work?

Well, for example. We have a very dynamic, ever changing active directory environment so I run some scheduled powershell scripts that search for certain objects to add to security groups on a nightly basis.

L0gicB0mb508

All this over some Linux advice. Can we just help the guy out with some Linux? Poor admins, I feel kinda bad for you.

Bl8ckr0uter

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Well, for example. We have a very dynamic, ever changing active directory environment so I run some scheduled powershell scripts that search for certain objects to add to security groups on a nightly basis.

Is PoSH more scripting based or is it an actual programming language?

Bl8ckr0uter

L0gicB0mb508 wrote: »

All this over some Linux advice. Can we just help the guy out with some Linux? Poor admins, I feel kinda bad for you.

Ah it is cool. I guess I asked for it by asking such a controversial question ..

Honestly I just want advice on how to be the best of both worlds so I will take what I can get

HeroPsycho

knwminus wrote: »

Is PoSH more scripting based or is it an actual programming language?

PoSh is an interactive shell with scripting capability. You wouldn't call it a programming language. Technically, it's a method of interacting with .net.

knwminus wrote: »

Ah it is cool. I guess I asked for it by asking such a controversial question ..

I think that whole thing was a culmination of pent up frustrations with someone we will cease to mention.

Pash

fleck wrote: »

You are right. I was just talking out of my ass based on my own perceptions. I try not to do that but I thought I was right. I am pleased to learn that there are Windows Server command line jockeys. It really is a great thing to know that I was wrong. I look forward to finding out more about the Windows CLI, I really do.

Haha I am beginning to think fleck is great.

But serially, knwminus just wanted a good answer on how to fly into the world of Linux, I think for the most part the posters have helped! Also, as fleck actually said the linux command line and shell scripting book is great, my colleague told me to get it and he is studying for his RHCE currently.

That said, id say even before you delve into the world of shell scripting, play around with the distros first, get news at:-

DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.

Do something cool in Linux first like setup ubuntu with compiz, get a funky 3d like desktop to really have some fun, then learn about Gnome/KDE and get a feel for which you like best. It's when you start having some fun with something that you really wan't to start to get down to the nitty gritty stuff.

Then get serious by setting up server based roles as mentioned above, my first full LAMP server was setup in CENTOS a few years ago (I used to do php development on a freelance basis for my friends company), admittedly I haven't done it much since because ive being doing more windows based stuff!

As hero said, powershell is a very nice shell based scripting language. I have to say with powergui/AD Quest (which is free) I have found many different ways to make AD administration/reporting easier. My boss asked me to get the NTFS permissions for all subfolders in a root folder, thats one line of script to get that work done.

ally_uk

Welcome to my world I have been using Linux for about 2 years after making the switch from Windows and havent looked back, It's a very powerful operating system what I like is the freedom and having the ability to run it on older hardware is a massive advantage plus the reliability is superb.

If you are looking for a decent book and want to know how to get a server up and running then you cannot go wrong with this.

APRESS.COM : Beginning Ubuntu LTS Server Administration: From Novice to Professional, Second Edition : 9781430210825

What I like about this book is it doesn't baffle you and expect you to be a Linux Guru it covers alot of information and it is very easy to take in.

Other guides I would suggest is if you do a google search for the dedicated server handbook this basically teaches you how to deploy a Open Source Solution
( Webmin, FTP, Apache) really good book.

It's good you are interested in Open Source despite what the Microsoft fanboys say I belive it is a good alternative and a great skill to have in I.T.

Pash

ally_uk wrote: »

It's good you are interested in Open Source despite what the Microsoft fanboys say I belive it is a good alternative and a great skill to have in I.T.

See ive never really understood this fan boy ****. Both Microsoft Windows and Linux ARE in the IT industry at this present moment, you cannot escape that fact regardless of who wishes it not to be true. I read in last months Linux Format magazine the article where they compare linux to windows 7, there are some valid points but I would not mind betting all my posessions in saying that Windows 7 will sell.

eMeS

knwminus wrote: »

Is PoSH more scripting based or is it an actual programming language?

I'd call it more of an interpreted scripting language, much like REXX or something like that (which also runs on Windows, BTW).

JDMurray wrote:

Just remember that once upon a time there was only the command line, and everybody had to learn and use it to get work done. It wasn't until the Macintosh that a GUI attempted to replace the command line. And so far, in the last 25 years, that hasn't happened, so you still need to learn the command line.

As JD has stated here, this makes the **** contest in this thread about CLIs vs. GUI seem really irrelevant and pointless.

In my experience, regardless of the platform, in order to work effectively directly with modern-day IT a thorough understanding of relevant CLIs/Shells is a necessity.

In fact, I've never used what we all think of as a "GUI" on any *nix system or z/OS platforms for any reason. I've found very little reason to when you have such a powerful CLI. Additionally, CLIs aren't a new thing in the DOS/Windows world either. I can remember regularly doing NT commands some time ago such as net start and net stop for custom services that we had running. Of course I could have done this with a GUI, but it was much easier to simply type the command.

To the OP, a better question on this board might be "Who hasn't setup a *nix server?" I would suspect a large % of the population has installed and configured various flavors of *nix.

Whether it's a command line or a GUI, there's nothing be afraid of...as long as it's not production you're not going to break anything that can't be fixed, and part of how you learn is by screwing up.

MS

JDMurray

And apparently the command line is the "new geek kewl" with today's cyber-youth. I work with a bunch of "kids" fresh out of college and they are nothing-but-command-line-minded for Cisco, Linux, and even Windows. If they are watching me work on a Linux box and I type "startx" at the prompt, I'll hear a collective "AWWWWW!!" erupt from the peanut gallery.


I, personally, believe in "the right tool for the right job," be it CUI- or GUI-based.

Pash

JDMurray wrote: »

I, personally, believe in "the right tool for the right job," be it CUI- or GUI-based.

Haha thats so diplomatic!

JDMurray

Pash wrote: »

Haha thats so diplomatic!

Well, it's true. I'm not gonna suffer using a sub-standard tool just because I refuse to use a more efficient alternative that implemented in a different UI.

"Sorry Mr. Customer, but I didn't fix your problem because GUIs suck!"

NightShade03

I'd agree with JD strongly. I work in a mixed environment and I do alot of work with active directory. When I need to make a quick change to a user account I use the GUI interface because its quick, easy, and gets done what I need. But when I need to make multiple changes on multiple accounts, I use the CLI. Is it because the GUI is not as good? Not really I'm just much faster on a CLI to script what I want done vs doing each individual change by hand.

So I agree...."Right tool for the right job"

kimanyd

Pash wrote: »

See ive never really understood this fan boy ****.

You're apparently secure with yourself as a human being.

HeroPsycho

eMeS wrote: »

I'd call it more of an interpreted scripting language, much like REXX or something like that (which also runs on Windows, BTW).

Not to split hairs, but it's still an important point to make. PowerShell is not technically a scripting language. It's first and foremost a shell.

The reason I'm pointing this out is I hated VBScript for the simple reason that you can't "play" with snippets at a command prompt directly. You had to run entire scripts to do anything. With PowerShell, you can put any part of a script in the interactive shell, and a script is very very close to what you'd type interactively at the prompt similar to a batch file, with some differences like variable scope and what not.

Still a good point though eMes...

eMeS

HeroPsycho wrote: »

Not to split hairs, but it's still an important point to make. PowerShell is not technically a scripting language. It's first and foremost a shell.

The reason I'm pointing this out is I hated VBScript for the simple reason that you can't "play" with snippets at a command prompt directly. You had to run entire scripts to do anything. With PowerShell, you can put any part of a script in the interactive shell, and a script is very very close to what you'd type interactively at the prompt similar to a batch file, with some differences like variable scope and what not.

Still a good point though eMes...

I agree and I should have stated myself more clearly...very little of what I've seen done in PoSh (which is in fact, very little) ever actually ends up in a script....it's all for the most part as you say, snippets entered directly at the command prompt.

I actually wrote some courseware on it earlier this year, however, the course didn't get used and is presently gathering dust.

But just to keep the belligerent trend of late in full swing...You Suck!

MS

Pash

kimanyd wrote: »

You're apparently secure with yourself as a human being.

If only there was a middle finger emote

Bl8ckr0uter

Well this thread did teach me a couple of things but the most important 1 is the CLI is still kicking, which is good (i guess). My primary focus are networking certifications and my network degree (see certs in my sig). Since
I want to be the best, I will obviously need to be somewhat verse in servers as well.

Switching gears, does anyone do network penetration (professionally or at home, preferably both)? What tools do you use? I am playing with "NMAP" and "Wireshark". I have messed around with older version of backtrack but I just recently downloaded the latest and greatest. I also use "metasploit" for a little while. Anyone use anything else? How about a good test lab. I was thinking that around my CCNA:S studies I would also try to pen the network that I just secured. Anyone have any good book suggestions to learn the basics from Network penetration (from a Network/Security Engineer perspective)? Specifically at Dynamik or Kimanyd, what are some things you study to get more knowledge in the world of network penetration. Mind you I am not an aspiring network pen tester but I do want to know exactly what I am up against.
Also for better skillset would a OSCP or CEH help me in my quest for networking knowledge? Has anyone taken these test and if so were they worth while?

Perhaps I should start another thread?

FYI: Our forum doesn't like the word "Metasploit" or "Backtrack". Maybe it thinks they are dirty words