State of IT Field in 4 years

I will be graduating in about 4 years time with an ITM (Information Technology Management) degree, my question is what can i expect in the job market? Hopefully the economy will be fully recovered by then, but then again there is the issue of off shoring... any input greatly appreciated.

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Turgon

aeroguy wrote: »

I will be graduating in about 4 years time with an ITM (Information Technology Management) degree, my question is what can i expect in the job market? Hopefully the economy will be fully recovered by then, but then again there is the issue of off shoring... any input greatly appreciated.

I dont think the economy will be fully recovered by then. In fact I think there is every chance it will tank again between now and 2013. There will be a lot of competition for jobs in the years ahead and many more layoffs. Unemployment is rising here in Europe. Here are US stats..

United States Unemployment Rate

But there will be jobs. Just not enough to go around.

With foreign policy as it is I think the military or government will be steadily hiring. Financial services are starting to recruit again a little bit since they have been recapitalised by tax payers. Retail and manufacturing will continue to struggle. Oil and gas may do better. You will need to keep any eye out on not only technology trends but what organisations actually want to invest in so stay frosty on economic and business reports in the trade rags. Some of the offshoring will come home in the years ahead. There will also be a lot of rationalisation going to get costs down so there is work there. Virtual datacentres, reducing the footprint of IT that kind of thing. Regs coming in for financial corporations will generate some IT projects.

mikej412

It took the National Bureau of Economic Research one year after the job market went into the toilet to determine that we were in a recession. Long before that there was a CCN news poll where 60% of joe public (who do CCN website polls) thought we were already in a recession.

The same "experts" are now trying to sell joe public on the idea that the recession is over..... but all that means is that the hole isn't getting any deeper (or isn't getting deeper as fast as it was).

Even if the economy suddenly was all rainbows and butterflies, it's going to take a while to fill in the hole this recession has already caused. The bad news is that we are already being told that the unemployment rate will continue to increase into next year..... A "jobless recovery" is probably going to feel a lot like the current recession for anyone who actually has to work for a living in the private sector.

And when you look at some of the "last numbers" that "dropped" unexpectadly, you might want to take off the rose colored glasses and look at what the "seasonal adjustments" have done to some of the previous "good reports." And you might also want to consider how the move to companies using contract employees also affects the numbers -- 1099 contractors usually don't qualify for unemployment and aren't counted in the jobless numbers.

When the outrageous 600,000+ monthly job loss dropped to an outrageous 580,000 jobs lost the next month, you heard the "good news" -- first time filing for unemployment has dropped.

Turgon wrote: »

I dont think the economy will be fully recovered by then.

ditto

Turgon wrote: »

But there will be jobs. Just not enough to go around.

agree

I'm assuming that "jobless recovery" means they won't be able to "seasonably adjust" the numbers enough to keep us out of a double dip recession. But if enough people can be convinced the economy is on the road to recovery and go back to spending money like drunken sailors, then maybe it will become true.

If you're in school now, you're going to want to be one of the students at the top of your class when you graduate.

Hyper-Me

I think we will be in a much better situation in 4 years than we are now, assuming no monumentous company failures or government screw ups (thats probably a lot to ask for, huh?)

The unfortunate thing is that even when the economy rebounds and jobs return, there will be so many people wanting jobs that we will still be undercut on pay and benefits for some time. I've seen this happening a lot with IT anyway, several jobs cut and only a couple guys expected to do everything for the same low pay. :-/

msteinhilber

I'm in agreement with what Mike and Turgon have mentioned.

Looking at how far the markets in the US have gained since they tanked, to me it seems like things shot up way too quick. If you ask me, it's a matter of time before it tanks again, probably very soon since this time of the year in which we are entering is fairly typical for the market to head down. That coupled with the issues we have faced I suspect is going to kick the sticks out from under the propped up market. There are very uncertain times still in the economy both domestic and foreign, the main stream media leads you to believe that things are moving along fine and dandy but I have my doubts.

As far as where IT will be in 4 years, I am focusing on technologies that will decrease overall operating costs as well as security. Lets face it, IT costs a lot of money for businesses. While spending has increased over the years at most places I have worked, it has been a more rigorous battle to prove to upper management the value in certain projects and why exactly things are needed. Everything is becoming a harder sell, even if it stands to save the company money. For me this means adjusting my skill sets to virtualization and security. Both are fairly popular specializations and I'm sure the first will be around for quite some time, and security will be around even longer as you always have to keep things save.

nice343

Learn IPv6 as much as you possibly can. Competetion will be more than ever.

Don't expect your degree to get you a job. COMPETE for the job. I don't have a degree but I have been picked for jobs that require a degree many times over people with degrees because I choose to do the contract/job for less. for example if the contract pays $40/hr. I sometimes do it for 35 or 30/hr. This is even more true now that the economy is not good. Companies want to save money as much as they possibly can

eMeS

I'm in complete disagreement with the statements about the state of the economy.

The bad times are rarely as bad as we think they are, and the good times are never as good as we remember them to be.

You guys are missing one very important thing....

People are spending less and saving more. Credit card usage and balances are declining significantly. This is all good news. What's even better news is that capitalism abhors money at rest. That money at rest, combined with all of the money that governments are spending will likely produce one of the largest booms cycles we've ever experienced.

One only needs to look back to around 80-81, 92-93 and several other periods to see the pattern that is emerging today. What we have seen and will continue to see is the standard business cycle playing out...

Regardless of whether the economy on a macro level is growing or contracting, there is always demand for certain types of labor. These may not be the skill sets that you have or the work that you think is the most glamorous, but whose fault is that? Fortunately for most of us, "IT skills" are very in demand, and the trend that I think I'm seeing is doing nothing but increasing.

Not trolling for an argument, but the pessimism seems unfounded, especially from people that I think have been gainfully employed during the last two years. It's annoying and sounds a lot like whining.

Personally, my business has grown significantly since 2007, and I regularly turn down work. I am also in the process of bringing others on board and raising rates across the board for existing customers. My business is not unique in this regard.

To the OP. You have 4 years to figure out what will be in demand, and you should not wait until well into the 4th year to start differentiating yourself from others. The tough thing for you will likely be that you have no experience to go along with your education, so you might want to try looking into what can get you some of that.

Now, to agree with some of what Turgon said, I think in a general sense I do agree that some of the offshored jobs will come back home to roost. Anything that proposes to save organizations money and truly can will be a big deal (offshoring being a notable false prophet here). Any programming skills, particularly as applied to the energy generation and delivery industry will be in high demand. Companies out there have huge implementations of COBOL, so there is almost always work in that area. People who do Assembler programming are also in high demand. As always, whatever the next area of innovation is will be in high demand, but I'm not at this moment willing to place any bets there...

MS

Turgon

eMeS wrote: »

Not trolling for an argument, but the pessimism seems unfounded, especially from people that I think have been gainfully employed during the last two years. It's annoying and sounds a lot like whining.
MS

It's not pessimism. For my part that is how I see things at this time. We were asked for opinions and that is my considered opinion. It's certainly not whining and I do not understand why you should take it as such. Many thousands of experienced IT contractors were laid off the last 12 months in the UK.

GAngel

Turgon wrote: »

It's not pessimism. For my part that is how I see things at this time. We were asked for opinions and that is my considered opinion. It's certainly not whining and I do not understand why you should take it as such. Many thousands of experienced IT contractors were laid off the last 12 months in the UK.

But in other non g7 countries they're begging for quality IT people. The hiring freeze of the last year has only made the situation worse. If you're good you'll get a job regardless of the country. IT as a whole still doesn't actually have that many unemployed and it won't for a long time especially with the boomers all on the way out.

eMeS

Turgon wrote: »

It's not pessimism. For my part that is how I see things at this time. We were asked for opinions and that is my considered opinion. It's certainly not whining and I do not understand why you should take it as such. Many thousands of experienced IT contractors were laid off the last 12 months in the UK.

My thoughts are not directed solely at you, please don't take it as such. Many thousands more will be laid off over the coming months, including contractors and direct employees, and not just in IT. It's the nature of an economy. What is pointless is for any of us to argue in contradiction of a normal business cycle.

To me a more genuine discussion, especially from those of you who have remained gainfully employed, is more along the lines of "here's how I did it, and here's how I think I'll continue to do it". You provided much of that answer in your response.

MS

UnixGuy

eMeS wrote: »

.. The tough thing for you will likely be that you have no experience to go along with your education, so you might want to try looking into what can get you some of that.

...
MS

to the OP, that's exactly what you need to do.

At university, try to absorb as much as you can from your courses. EVERYTHING is useful IMO. Don't say that this course will be useful and this won't. Just study everything...make use of your time.

Don't make the same mistake I did, I dedicated my whole time to studying and doing homeworks/projects which is good, but I could've done better in the sense that I think if I got a part time job it would've been better.

Find a part time job or try volunteering. See what your colleagues are studying at this job and do like them. Get certified in the technologies you will get a chance to work on. Network with IT professionals and learn from them.

Also, keep checking IT forums like this one. It's very useful since you will always know what's the latest trends and what's in demand and what employers expect...etc.

Kasor

Just make sure you study hard, take internship and anything you can get from the Federal intern program..., and networking

dynamik

Things will definitely be more competitive. As much as Turgon bitches about how long his CCIE is taking, I know he'll have it by then. Look out!

mikej412

eMeS wrote: »

To me a more genuine discussion, especially from those of you who have remained gainfully employed, is more along the lines of "here's how I did it, and here's how I think I'll continue to do it".

Based on the number of "networking" phone calls I've been getting from out of work former coworkers and how empty the parking lot has become at work, the most important thing has been dumb luck. Having a large and varied skill set and lots of impressive experience has helped a great deal. Getting the job done and working the funky hours required has helped a great deal. But being the right person in the right spot at the right time probably has been the most important thing.

My plan is to continue to hope for the best and plan for the worst.

human151

Wow such pessimistic outlooks.

The economy goes in cycles. We just happen to be in a down cycle, or coming out of one. Things will be back to normal sooner rather than later. Employers will be hiring, the economy will be creating more jobs, consumers will be spending.

The technology sector will be expanding. not contracting for the foreseeable future.

The only problem I see is that I believe I.T. Wages will continue to be depressed and actually decline. I have no idea why this is.

Hyper-Me

eMeS wrote: »

To me a more genuine discussion, especially from those of you who have remained gainfully employed, is more along the lines of "here's how I did it, and here's how I think I'll continue to do it". You provided much of that answer in your response.

MS

How?

I work for the public sector and right when the economy started tanking I took on a new project that, to be honest (not conceited) I am the only one who can 100% perform the duties required. The other guy I work with is very good, but doesnt spend as much time as I do learning the material and practicing it. There also would simply be too much work for just one person, heck theres too much for 2 people.

Probably a lot of luck, but also positioning myself to where they cant afford to lose me.

bubble2005

mikej412 wrote: »

It took the National Bureau of Economic Research one year after the job market went into the toilet to determine that we were in a recession. Long before that there was a CCN news poll where 60% of joe public (who do CCN website polls) thought we were already in a recession.

The same "experts" are now trying to sell joe public on the idea that the recession is over..... but all that means is that the hole isn't getting any deeper (or isn't getting deeper as fast as it was).

Even if the economy suddenly was all rainbows and butterflies, it's going to take a while to fill in the hole this recession has already caused. The bad news is that we are already being told that the unemployment rate will continue to increase into next year..... A "jobless recovery" is probably going to feel a lot like the current recession for anyone who actually has to work for a living in the private sector.

And when you look at some of the "last numbers" that "dropped" unexpectadly, you might want to take off the rose colored glasses and look at what the "seasonal adjustments" have done to some of the previous "good reports." And you might also want to consider how the move to companies using contract employees also affects the numbers -- 1099 contractors usually don't qualify for unemployment and aren't counted in the jobless numbers.

When the outrageous 600,000+ monthly job loss dropped to an outrageous 580,000 jobs lost the next month, you heard the "good news" -- first time filing for unemployment has dropped.

ditto

agree

I'm assuming that "jobless recovery" means they won't be able to "seasonably adjust" the numbers enough to keep us out of a double dip recession. But if enough people can be convinced the economy is on the road to recovery and go back to spending money like drunken sailors, then maybe it will become true.

If you're in school now, you're going to want to be one of the students at the top of your class when you graduate.

Well I'll surely keep that last part in mind since I'm in school Mike. I'll try to get what I can now to be better economically prepared later.

Turgon

dynamik wrote: »

Things will definitely be more competitive. As much as Turgon bitches about how long his CCIE is taking, I know he'll have it by then. Look out!

hehehehehe..you never know!

Pash

mikej412 wrote: »

Based on the number of "networking" phone calls I've been getting from out of work former coworkers and how empty the parking lot has become at work, the most important thing has been dumb luck. Having a large and varied skill set and lots of impressive experience has helped a great deal. Getting the job done and working the funky hours required has helped a great deal. But being the right person in the right spot at the right time probably has been the most important thing.

My plan is to continue to hope for the best and plan for the worst.

How can you see the parking lot from your basement?

Interesting thread this. I guess for you old dinosaurs (take that as an insult) you must have seen this stuff before, but for us young hustlers I barely know what stability means!

GT-Rob

mikej412 wrote: »

Based on the number of "networking" phone calls I've been getting from out of work former coworkers and how empty the parking lot has become at work, the most important thing has been dumb luck. Having a large and varied skill set and lots of impressive experience has helped a great deal. Getting the job done and working the funky hours required has helped a great deal. But being the right person in the right spot at the right time probably has been the most important thing.

My plan is to continue to hope for the best and plan for the worst.

I think this statement holds truth even when the economy is doing well. Even in the best of times, there are usually multiple people after the same jobs, and you have to have the right skills to stand out (and sometimes, get lucky).

blargoe

Regardless of "how the economy is" in 4 years, that really doesn't change the things you should do to put yourself in the best possible situation.

1. Start getting work experience before you graduate. Right now. Anything goes, part-time, graveyard shift, whatever.
2. Networking. (People, not data

)
3. Entry level certs.
4. Your first "real" job will be crappy, entry level wages in all likelihood, regardless of how high your grades are, your "credentials" etc. Prepare for that ahead of time.
4a. Learn fiscal responsibility now. Don't spend more than you have, don't get yourself in a situation where you "have to" make x salary because you've racked up a pile of bills. It won't be long until you have a killer job and can have the nice home, car, or whatever floats your boat.

Paul Boz

Get into security. when the economy goes down crime goes up and security professionals are in high demand now. The role of IT in organizations is growing by the year based on the role of technology in environments. Many studies that i have read have stated that while the over-all job market is going down, IT is doing well by comparison.

AlexMR

Paul Boz wrote: »

Get into security. when the economy goes down crime goes up and security professionals are in high demand now. The role of IT in organizations is growing by the year based on the role of technology in environments. Many studies that i have read have stated that while the over-all job market is going down, IT is doing well by comparison.

Same here in the third world. Comapnies here are struggling to maintain a decent level of retention. I have more than one friend in top management of the telecommunications companies and in one of them, the market leader, they keep paying for the studies of some employes and a few have got the CCIE, only to have them hired by another bigger company in the USA (mainly), Brazil or Europe.

Something that is a bit overlooked in the field is that there is a big leap between the very good professionals and average or mediocre ones. The very good IT pros are in high demand, and they are expensive. There seems to be only two classes in the field and that is the very good and the not so very good

. The kind of professional that is very dependable and works with high impact (on the business-networking, DBA) technologies is generally very well paid, even in times of economic depression, and has a very high level of job security.

Because of my IT inclinations I have lots of friends in the field. I can say without a doubt that of my generation (I'm 30) the professionals that are doing better on average are the IT pros. And that is in Dominican Republic, and M.Ds and Lawyers are included.

Try to align what you love to do with a projection of what you think will be on high demand and you'll do excellently. but remember that doing something you love is an absolute must...