Since when did "entry level" become "minimum of two years of experience"?

Tony138

Nearly every single job ad that I see for an entry level tech position still says that they require at least two years of experience. It's frustrating to see "entry level" in the headline and then I read the requirements and they say "at least two years of experience", especially since I know that I’m easily capable of performing all of the job duties that most of these positions list.

How is a person supposed to break into the business when even the entry level jobs require at least two years of experience; I already have a degree in CIS, A+ certification, Network+ certification, CCNA, and MCSA, but apparently none of that can even land me an entry level job without at least two years of experience. I don't really think that getting any other certification will help me at this time if the ones that I already have can't overcome the experience requirement, so what else is a person without any professional experience supposed to do to break into the business?

NinjaBoy

Tony138 wrote: »

Nearly every single job ad that I see for an entry level tech position still says that they require at least two years of experience. This is so frustrating because I know that I’m easily capable of performing all of the job duties that most of these positions list.


How is a person supposed to break into the business when even the entry level jobs require at least two years of experience; I already have a degree in CIS, A+ certification, Network+ certification, CCNA, and MCSA, but apparently none of that can even land me an entry level job without at least two years of experience.

I'm sad to say that those companies don't know what entry level is... If they want 2 years experience then the post is not an entry level job, it still may be 1st tier... Maybe it's their wording...

When I advertise for an entry level position, it's for people with zero experience upwards... It's like those companies who ask for an MCSE for helpdesk, they just don't know, which is sad...

-Ken

miller811

Apply for everything that you think you are remotely qualified for.
If you are already doing that and not getting any interviews, have a professional look at your resume.

JoJoCal19

Tony138 wrote: »

How is a person supposed to break into the business when even the entry level jobs require at least two years of experience; I already have a degree in CIS, A+ certification, Network+ certification, CCNA, and MCSA, but apparently none of that can even land me an entry level job without at least two years of experience. I don't really think that getting any other certification will help me at this time if the ones that I already have can't overcome the experience requirement, so what else is a person without any professional experience supposed to do to break into the business?

I think one of the most overlooked ways to break into IT is through contract jobs. There are plenty of contract jobs to go around and even though it may not be what youre looking for exactly, its still experience. Im not sure where you live but with your degree and your certs you should be able to land something. Even if you have to start in a Help Desk job, its still a way in. You put in a year or so and you should be able to land a junior systems admin or junior network admin job easy.

RobertKaucher

Something that I am always posting about and is really over-looked is donating your time. Go around to small businesses and non-profits and donate your time to support them. Be clear that you are offering your services as a way to gain experience. Tell them about your certifications and degree. Most will be happy to call you when something goes wrong.

My first hands on experience with AD was designing a Server 2003 AD domain for a tax firm. I did it for free. They paid me only the mileage to/from their location. I gained experience with AD, Exchange and SharePoint. It was quite nice and I still get (paid) business from them today. It still looks good on my resume and the owner always gives me glowing reviews for reference checks.

veritas_libertas

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

I think one of the most overlooked ways to break into IT is through contract jobs. There are plenty of contract jobs to go around and even though it may not be what youre looking for exactly, its still experience. Im not sure where you live but with your degree and your certs you should be able to land something. Even if you have to start in a Help Desk job, its still a way in. You put in a year or so and you should be able to land a junior systems admin or junior network admin job easy.

This is absolutely the truth. I got my job through contract work. All you need to do is place a good resume on Monster, and Career Builder. I still get calls weekly about different contract jobs.

Paul Boz

Its the economy. There are a lot of highly qualified IT professionals without work right now and they make it hard for people to break into the field because a potential employer is more inclined to hire the seasoned guy over a newbie. That's why you see adverts for jr positions requiring two years experience. There are a ton of unemployed guys out there that can satisfy their requirement and they know that.

human151

they want someone who can run the entire network for $10.00 an hour.

Someones got to keep the CEO's in their Rolls Royces and pay the country club dues.

kriscamaro68

If you are having a hard time getting into a business enviroment then do what i did. My first few years where spent working for places like bestbuy's geek squad. There are always companies like the geeksquad around that drive to peoples houses and fix their computers. I learned alot doing those types of jobs and it helps because you learn how to deal with people face to face. Also it helps to show the employer that you can deal with high stress situations cause there is nothing like a pist off customer in your face because something got jacked up. I would check around for that kinda stuff to get your experience in.

accely

"minimum 2 years work experience" doesnt just mean you had a job doing the related tasks. It can also include all of your experience on your own with computers/networks etc. Normally it also means, "or equivalent training/schooling". But irregardless of what it really means, just apply for any job you think you want, you'll probably surprise yourself. Alot of the descriptions that companies tag onto a job position are just political.

joey74055

miller811 wrote: »

Apply for everything that you think you are remotely qualified for.
If you are already doing that and not getting any interviews, have a professional look at your resume.

Ditto! Apply anyway, even if you don't have the 2 years. They still are wanting entry level, the 2 years is probably their "preferred" choice but you have nothing at all to lose by applying anyway.

Firemarshalbill.com

Frustrating isn't it. One thing I have noticed recently is that companies are listing a million things for requirements. A few years ago if you had 1/2 of them you were golden and now they want 95%. I would put in for everything you think you may be qualified for. Also another good website is Indeed.com. They actually search other websites for jobs, you can set up job search agents like "ccna" and get notified daily of the new postings. KEEP THE FAITH things will eventually pop. I was out for 5 months. Not sure where you are living but if it is in the Comcast area check out their website for Comm Techs -

mikej412

Tony138 wrote: »

Nearly every single job ad that I see for an entry level tech position still says that they require at least two years of experience.

Even if they explicitly stat they want 2 year relevant experience, you have nothing to lose by applying. In a lot of cases they are looking for someone who has had a job and a proven track record of waking up in the morning and making it to work on time.

2 Years on a help desk answering Microsoft Word questions for users doesn't prepare anyone to be a junior network admin or junior server admin -- but most companies aren't going to trust someone with the keys to the empire if they just walk in off the street.

While our rack 'n stack positions don't require much more than an A+ Certification, quite a bit of effort goes into checking out those candidates before they get hired. You don't want that new guy that's supposed to deliver $500K worth of equipment to a remote location to vanish along with a company van and all the hardware.

Pash

I haven't been around long enough to really know about trends or how the economy might effect IT recruitment. It was still very similar when I was first job hunting in IT around 3 years ago though. My old college tutor would say never lie about your experience, but make sure you sell absolutely everything you have done in IT without bending the truth. It is hard and I did have a slice of luck...........but stick in there mate I am sure it will work out soon.

ULWiz

IMO 2 years experience still makes you entry level in my book.

Contract to hire still seems to be the way to get a job in my area. Keep applying for jobs with a MCSA and CCNA it should not be to hard to get your foot in the door somehow.

Best of Luck and keep us posted

Megadeth4168

I always thought that it was standard for an entry level potion to list 2 years. If I were hiring for an entry level technician, I would list a 2 years requirement in hopes that people with 2 years experience apply. The chances are that they would need less training than someone with no work experience.

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't hire someone with 0 work experience though. I think this is one way of filtering out people who are not really that interested to begin with.

The same can apply to degrees as well. If I am really interested in a job, but I don't meet one of their requirements, I will apply anyway!

I do also think that as posted earlier, the economic times do bring more of the 2 year "entry level" people out of the wood work, making it more difficult for the 0 experience people to get experience.

Zartanasaurus

Apply to a temp company that does IT related jobs. I did this about a decade ago to get started. Keep in mind that they will talk a lot of **** to get you to take a non IT job. They'll try to get you working on a loading dock at a company that does IT work "to get your foot in the door". You'll hear "I get guys in like this all the time" and never meet anyone who works there that was placed via the temp company. In my limited experience, I never saw this happen. I would get placed at a company doing entry level IT work and the same company would place a guy driving a truck or working in the warehouse with the idea that he'd be able to move up to do IT stuff in a few months. It never panned out for him. They are just trying to fill another spot. Make sure you make it clear that you're only accepting a position doing real IT work. If you're any good they'll find you a job that fits what you're looking for. They want to make money off you, and if they think you can make them money you'll get a decent job.

curtisdaley

I remember when doing my CCNA at College, you might be able to **** the theory final assessment of the semester not the pratical assessment, many of my friends failed the practical exams on the hardware, where i smacked it, as i actually new how to set up ospf/ripv1/2 and eigrp routed networks

BigTex71

Maybe that job posting means they want an experienced IT person who will accept entry-level pay.

Norbie

When I graduated college I couldn't break into the IT field. I couldn't get a job without the experience and I couldn't get the experience without getting the job.

I got a non pay internship working in my county's school system's IT department...I hated it but stuck around for the whole internship. A couple buddies I made from that internship had a former professor who had got a job as manager of the city's IT department...they recommended me for a paid internship in the city IT department

Internships are great. It's away around the catch-22 of needing experience and not being able to get it. As the intern you get the experience. Granted you don't get the good paycheck but you get some of the experience needed to one day get there.

(everyone should start at the bottom like I did...it builds character)

mikedisd2

Did anyone mention work experience?

2x weeks of shadowing someone and networking with those in the biz worked twice for me in the past.

Dr IT

Well you can blame the HR people who frame the job description and most of the times are clueless about wat level of expertise /experience a MCSE has.


As said by people earlier - go for contract job if not do some volunteeing which could count as experience

all the luck


PS: tr goes by 50th post (hope i wrote something sensible - Dynamik here i come !!

RouteThisWay

I love the:

"Hiring for Help Desk/Desktop Support. Must have either A+ or MCSE"

lol? Because the A+ is totally on the level of MCSE lol.

Kujo

human151 wrote: »

they want someone who can run the entire network for $10.00 an hour.

Someones got to keep the CEO's in their Rolls Royces and pay the country club dues.

No doubt. It's a joke.

This is one of the biggest issues with the IT industry.

Like Dr. T said, a lot of HR staffs are clueless. They list tons of skills that are allegedly required for the job, when the odds less than half are actually needed. The hiring IT manager should write the job description. This rarely happens.

It doesn't help that there are many experienced unemployed IT Pro's willing to take these entry level jobs to pay the bills.

CompuTron99

Oh Wait!

Then there are the job ads that are just the opposite.

Ad Reads:

" 2+ Years Help Desk / Desktop Support Experience, Familiar with Windows and Office Products"

You get to the interview and find that it's a SysAdmin position overseeing a 1000+ user company with both Windows, Mac, and Unix servers and multiple locations. -- That's just a waste of your's and the company's time.

Zartanasaurus

CompuTron99 wrote: »

Oh Wait!

Then there are the job ads that are just the opposite.

Ad Reads:

" 2+ Years Help Desk / Desktop Support Experience, Familiar with Windows and Office Products"

You get to the interview and find that it's a SysAdmin position overseeing a 1000+ user company with both Windows, Mac, and Unix servers and multiple locations. -- That's just a waste of your's and the company's time.

:jackpot:

skrpune

ULWiz wrote: »

IMO 2 years experience still makes you entry level in my book.

Contract to hire still seems to be the way to get a job in my area. Keep applying for jobs with a MCSA and CCNA it should not be to hard to get your foot in the door somehow.

Best of Luck and keep us posted

I'd have to agree with you - even though two years experience is nothing to sneeze at, there's certain knowledge that only comes with time and experience. Folks are hesitant to let someone without that experience touch their stuff or their customer's stuff. They also don't want to have someone inexperienced spending 4 hours researching how to fix a problem when they can have someone who's more experienced spend just an hour or less to fix the problem.

rwwest7

ULWiz wrote: »

IMO 2 years experience still makes you entry level in my book.

Contract to hire still seems to be the way to get a job in my area. Keep applying for jobs with a MCSA and CCNA it should not be to hard to get your foot in the door somehow.

Best of Luck and keep us posted

Agreed. No matter how much experience you have you're still entry level until you have the degrees/certs to prove you've actually learned something from your experience. You can do something for 20 and still suck at it.

Hyper-Me

I think the 2 year mark of full-time constant work is about the point where id stop considering someone entry level. If they took that time and learned as much as I learned in 2 years of working full-time.

Obviously someone with 2 years experience + certs and any degree will stand out over someone with just 2 years experience.

NetworkingStudent

I remember a point in my life when I wanted to become a carpenter. My friend called me up one day and told me about the carpenters union, and their training center, and how they will train you for any carpentry skill you are willing to learn. He also mentioned the wages ranging anywhere from $15.00-$30.00 an hour, plus a lot of benefits. After hearing all of this information I wanted to give it a go, so I headed to one of the carpentry union meetings for more information. The union rep for the carpentry center went over all the great benefits, wages, and training that anyone could receive, but there was one catch you had to find a company that would sponsor your training, and give you a job. The Union carpentry leader brings out these packets that were 10 pages thick full of employers that specialized in just about everything from Dry wall to Framing, and everything else in between. The packets just had company names, and phone numbers, and that was it. I called at least 10-15 numbers and I had to pretty much ask for an entry level job, and they would ask “do you have any experience?”, and my answer would always be “no”, and then I would mention how I want to join the carpenters union and learn from them, well that response just wasn’t good enough. After I did some heavy debating I decided to volunteer for Habit for Humanity, I did a few sessions there, but I got frustrated after showing up, and there was no work for me to do.
One year later I saw the Carpenters Union booth at the State Fair, and I told them I called the companies up , but no one would sponsor me, and they their response was, did you try going to a technical and major in carpentry, and my response of course was “no”. After that conversation I felt like I was being mislead or lied to, because I felt that after gaining some minimal experience I could have become an entry level carpenter. I was so wrong, and I should have taken a different approach, so that I could break into the carpentry industry.
How does this relate to IT? I went through the same run around that many it the IT world have gone through, however I was trying to break into the carpentry industry. A ton of companies are looking for entry level help desk/technical support workers, but a majority of the job candidates don’t have the experience, therefore the companies aren’t willing to take the risk.
I think colleges that teach IT should offer more internship, and encourage or require students to volunteer time, so that they will become employable when they graduate. It’s sad, but my college dropped our IT internship course, because of a lack of student interest.



Below I have listed some volunteer web sites that I visit to look for volunteer and internship opportunities.
Also I would suggest looking at joining user groups.
Check out new horizons training center by state, they offer IT training, free seminars (some aren’t free), and they have links for user groups.
I hope this helps, and above all don’t give up on your job search!

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Free Geek Volunteer
In addition to Portland, a number of other cities have started their own Free Geek organizations.[4]
• Portland, OR ("the Mothership")
• Fayetteville, AK
• Central FL
• Chicago, IL
• Columbus, OH
• South Bend, IN (Michiana)
• Vancouver, BC (Canada)
• Murfreesboro, TN (Born Again)
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Morty3

My tip is this: Do insane labs. Set up a multiple-area OSPF with MPLS/FR under that. Create a lab of where you can remotely install anything on any computer on different VLANs with layer3-switching. Do a massive network lockdown on a network, making it as impenetratable as you can. Now I'm a network guy and I dont know much about other cool labs that you can do, but get the point. Do complicated stuff

Do a few of these labs, then list them under "Experience" in your resume. It can look like this:

Experience:
Cabled a 10-Gbps compatible ethernet network for 30 users
Securing a 200-users local network using Cisco ASA, and IOS firewall.
Made a logical design of a full IT-enviroment, reaching from the POP and main router to user clients.
Configuered and optimized a 10-router MPLS-network.
Configuered and optimized a 10-router OSPF-network.

There is no real job experience, but experience still.