640-803?

KriptiK

Wassup guys my first post here. This is an awesome board btw. I want to get your guys opinion if you think Cisco will be changing exams anytime soon? Reason I ask is because I had bought books for the 640-801 exam a few years ago but never studied and now there's the 640-802 exam. Do you think they'll be a new exam soon? As in within a year? I don't want to buy a 640-802 book then come to find out the 640-803 exam comes out in 2010. Sorry if this is a repost!

human151

Cisco probably wont be changing the exams but if they do, you're still going to be able to take the older exam for a certain period of time.

Slowhand

We're getting a lot of these kinds of questions about Cisco exams lately, aren't we?

No, the 640-802 is going to be around for a while, Cisco has made no announcement that they're updating the exam any time soon. Check out this page to see any updates or news about the CCNA exam. And regardless of what anyone tells you, it's just a rumor until Cisco, themselves, actually announce it.

Good luck with your studies!

tech-airman

KriptiK wrote: »

Wassup guys my first post here. This is an awesome board btw. I want to get your guys opinion if you think Cisco will be changing exams anytime soon? Reason I ask is because I had bought books for the 640-801 exam a few years ago but never studied and now there's the 640-802 exam. Do you think they'll be a new exam soon? As in within a year? I don't want to buy a 640-802 book then come to find out the 640-803 exam comes out in 2010. Sorry if this is a repost!

KriptiK,

According to the "Retired Certification Exams" webpage, the 640-801 CCNA certification exam was retired on 11/06/07 and was replaced by the 640-802 CCNA certification exam. Since CCNA certification is good for 3 years, by extrapolation the 640-802 CCNA certification exam may be retired by 11/06/10.

1. Retired Certification Exams - Retired Certification Exams - IT Certification and Career Paths - Cisco Systems

Slowhand

tech-airman wrote: »

KriptiK,

According to the "Retired Certification Exams" webpage, the 640-801 CCNA certification exam was retired on 11/06/07 and was replaced by the 640-802 CCNA certification exam. Since CCNA certification is good for 3 years, by extrapolation the 640-802 CCNA certification exam may be retired by 11/06/10.

1. Retired Certification Exams - Retired Certification Exams - IT Certification and Career Paths - Cisco Systems

Considering that 640-607 retired on September 30th of 2003 and its successor, 640-801, retired on September 30th of 2007, it's a safe bet that it's every four years or so. We're probably looking at the 640-802 going to end-of-life around September of 2011 if they follow their pattern. Still, I'd wait until Cisco announces something before worrying too much; and even then, they still give anywhere from six months to a year between first announcing a new exam to the retirement of the existing one.

tech-airman

Slowhand wrote: »

Considering that 640-607 retired on September 30th of 2003 and its successor, 640-801, retired on September 30th of 2007, it's a safe bet that it's every four years or so. We're probably looking at the 640-802 going to end-of-life around September of 2011 if they follow their pattern. Still, I'd wait until Cisco announces something before worrying too much; and even then, they still give anywhere from six months to a year between first announcing a new exam to the retirement of the existing one.

Slowhand,

The 640-407 CCNA certification exam, the 640-507 CCNA certification exam, and the 640-607 CCNA certification exams were all the only option to attain CCNA certification by passing a single exam. If you passed the 640-407 CCNA certification exam, then you had to take and pass the 640-507 CCNA certification exam withIN three years of passing the 640-407 CCNA certification to recertify. If you passed the 640-507 CCNA certification exam, then you had to take and pass the 640-607 CCNA certification exam withIN three years of passing the 640-507 CCNA certification exam to recertify. If you passed the 640-607 CCNA certification exam, then you had to take and pass either the 640-801 CCNA certification exam or the 640-811 ICND certification exam to recertify.

Source: CCNA - Cisco Systems

It was with the 640-801 CCNA generation of exams that Cisco decided to have two paths: 1) the single exam option of the 640-801 CCNA certification exam to achieve CCNA certification or 2) the two exam option of a) the 640-821 INTRO certification exam and b) the 640-811 ICND certification exam that would eventually achieve CCNA certification. If you took the two exam option and passed the 640-821 INTRO exam, you had 3 years from when you took and passed the 640-821 INTRO exam to pass the 640-811 ICND certification exam to complete CCNA certification requirements or else your 640-821 INTRO exam pass would expire and will no longer count towards CCNA certification and you would have to restart the CCNA certification process from scratch.

I believe you're giving KriptiK a false sense of security when you mention "...it's a safe bet that it's every four years or so." because the CCNA certification process must be completed within a 3 year time frame or else the first exam pass would expire, for both first time certification or for recertification purposes. Based on your "...four years or so..." timeframe, that means if you took and passed the 640-802 CCNA certification exam back on 11/06/07 when the 640-801 CCNA certification exam expired to the public, then when you have to recertify your CCNA certification three years later, you'd take the 640-802 CCNA certification exam again because three years is within your "...four years or so..." timeframe?

Slowhand

tech-airman wrote: »

Slowhand,

The 640-407 CCNA certification exam, the 640-507 CCNA certification exam, and the 640-607 CCNA certification exams were all the only option to attain CCNA certification by passing a single exam. If you passed the 640-407 CCNA certification exam, then you had to take and pass the 640-507 CCNA certification exam withIN three years of passing the 640-407 CCNA certification to recertify. If you passed the 640-507 CCNA certification exam, then you had to take and pass the 640-607 CCNA certification exam withIN three years of passing the 640-507 CCNA certification exam to recertify. If you passed the 640-607 CCNA certification exam, then you had to take and pass either the 640-801 CCNA certification exam or the 640-811 ICND certification exam to recertify.

Source: CCNA - Cisco Systems

It was with the 640-801 CCNA generation of exams that Cisco decided to have two paths: 1) the single exam option of the 640-801 CCNA certification exam to achieve CCNA certification or 2) the two exam option of a) the 640-821 INTRO certification exam and b) the 640-811 ICND certification exam that would eventually achieve CCNA certification. If you took the two exam option and passed the 640-821 INTRO exam, you had 3 years from when you took and passed the 640-821 INTRO exam to pass the 640-811 ICND certification exam to complete CCNA certification requirements or else your 640-821 INTRO exam pass would expire and will no longer count towards CCNA certification and you would have to restart the CCNA certification process from scratch.

Since I have no idea what you're referencing here, and it has nothing to do with my previous post, I'm going to leave it be, with the exception of saying that ICND1 from the old exam does count towards the new one, just as "in-progress" exams for the CCNP counted towards the updated exam when they retired those.

tech-airman wrote: »

believe you're giving KriptiK a false sense of security when you mention "...it's a safe bet that it's every four years or so." because the CCNA certification process must be completed within a 3 year time frame or else the first exam pass would expire, for both first time certification or for recertification purposes. Based on your "...four years or so..." timeframe, that means if you took and passed the 640-802 CCNA certification exam back on 11/06/07 when the 640-801 CCNA certification exam expired to the public, then when you have to recertify your CCNA certification three years later, you'd take the 640-802 CCNA certification exam again because three years is within your "...four years or so..." timeframe?

Considering that I've known more than one person who simply retook the same CCNA exam they took to certify, there's no "false sense of security" here. The CCNA is valid for three years, that's true, but you're expected to either upgrade or re-certify. Regardless of whether there is a new version of the CCNA exam out, you still have to renew your exam every three years. What I'm talking about is how often they upgrade it, and so far it's been every four years.

As a side note, how often a person has to retake or upgrade a cert is not relevant to how often an exam is updated. Cisco is happy to take your money, regardless of the exam you take, be it 640-802 or whatever succeeds it.

mikej412

tech-airman wrote: »

According to the "Retired Certification Exams" webpage, the 640-801 CCNA certification exam was retired on 11/06/07 and was replaced by the 640-802 CCNA certification exam. Since CCNA certification is good for 3 years, by extrapolation the 640-802 CCNA certification exam may be retired by 11/06/10.

Someone passing the 640-802 today can still use it as the CCNA Prerequisite for the next 3 years -- even if Cisco announces a new 640-803 tomorrow and the 640-802 retires in 5 or 6 months.

How long an exam is "valid" from the date passed to use to meet Certification Prerequisites has nothing to do with the time between exam updates/upgrades. Some of the CCSP exams have had major updates and new exam numbers several times within the most recent "valid for 3 years" time frame -- and quite a few people are probably still within their "valid for 3 years" time frame with the now retired CCSP exams.

Since it seems at times there are conflicting technical and marketing reasons for some of the past Cisco Certification and Certification Exam changes, I think it's probably best just to NOT buy any Cisco Press Exam Certification book more than 4 months in advance.

tech-airman

Slowhand,

Slowhand wrote: »

Since I have no idea what you're referencing here, and it has nothing to do with my previous post, I'm going to leave it be, with the exception of saying that ICND1 from the old exam does count towards the new one, just as "in-progress" exams for the CCNP counted towards the updated exam when they retired those.

I used the fact that "...the 640-801 CCNA certification exam was retired on 11/06/07 and was replaced by the 640-802 CCNA certification exam..." and the fact that "...CCNA certification is good for 3 years..." to create a reasonable extrapolation into the future of when the "640-803 CCNA" certification exam may be released.

Your addition of another point of the 640-607 CCNA exam retirement date weakens your argument because there exists two paths to recertification, not just one. For someone holding a valid CCNA certificate through taking and passing 640-607 CCNA certification has the option of taking and passing either the 640-801 CCNA certification exam or the 640-811 ICND certification exam to recertify. Therefore, your attempt at creating a linear relationship between the newly added predecessor point of the 640-607 CCNA certification exam retirement date to the 640-801 CCNA retirement date as the basis of your extrapolation does not take into consideration factors such as: 1) there was the 640-811 ICND certification exam option for recertification 2) students of the Cisco Networking Academy in the CCNA 3.1 curriculum were permitted to attempt the certification exams for the 640-801 CCNA generation of certification exams beyond the public retirement date of 11/06/07. So since you added one predecessor point, I added all predecessor points to the beginning of the CCNA certification exams to the very first one which was the 640-407 CCNA certification exam of 1998. So from the 640-407 CCNA certification exam through to the 640-607 CCNA certification exam, since there was only one track/path, a two point analysis may be appropriate. However, trying to use two point analysis from the 640-607 CCNA certfication exam to only the 640-801 CCNA certification exam is not the only path therefore it's not completely true because you neglected to take the 640-811 ICND certification exam into consideration.

You mentioned "...with the exception of saying that ICND1 from the old exam does count towards the new one..." The 640-822 ICND1 certification exam is part of the 640-802 CCNA certification exam generation. The 640-801 CCNA certification exam generation included the 640-821 INTRO certification exam and the 640-811 ICND certification exam.

Slowhand wrote: »

Considering that I've known more than one person who simply retook the same CCNA exam they took to certify, there's no "false sense of security" here. The CCNA is valid for three years, that's true, but you're expected to either upgrade or re-certify. Regardless of whether there is a new version of the CCNA exam out, you still have to renew your exam every three years. What I'm talking about is how often they upgrade it, and so far it's been every four years.

You may know second hand information from "...know[ing] more than one person..." but I'm speaking from first hand experience. When my CCNA certification by taking and passing the 640-607 CCNA certification exam was up for recertification, the recertification options for me were the 640-801 CCNA certification exam and the 640-811 ICND certification exam.

You mention "...but you're expected to either upgrade or re-certify..." I believe that's called the "either or logical fallacy." There's also the unlisted option of letting your certification lapse.

You mention "...you still have to renew your exam every three years..." A certified individual to remain certified must complete a recertification action beFORE three years has elapsed since being certified, not every three years. Exactly at the three year mark down to the day is when the certificate expires. Once again, I speak from first hand experience.

You mention "...so far it's been every four years..." So the 640-801 CCNA certification exam retired on 11/06/07. According to your estimate, the predecessor 640-607 CCNA certification exam retired on 11/06/03. Actual retirement date was 30Sep03. Continuing your extrapolation, according to your estimate, the predecessor 640-507 CCNA certification exam retired 4 years prior to 11/06/03 (since this in compliance with your "4 year rule") which is 11/06/99. Then the predecessor 640-407 CCNA certification exam must have (according to your rule), retired on 11/06/95. There's a problem in that the CCNA certification program didn't start until 1998. So how could the 640-407 CCNA certification exam retire before it existed?

Slowhand wrote: »

As a side note, how often a person has to retake or upgrade a cert is not relevant to how often an exam is updated. Cisco is happy to take your money, regardless of the exam you take, be it 640-802 or whatever succeeds it.

How often an individual must recertify their Cisco certifications is at the discretion of Cisco System. Currently it is withIN 3 years of re/certification, not every three years. It's Vue that takes your money for the Cisco certification exams.

ncsugrad2002

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repeat repeat

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Slowhand

tech-airman wrote: »

I used the fact that "...the 640-801 CCNA certification exam was retired on 11/06/07 and was replaced by the 640-802 CCNA certification exam..." and the fact that "...CCNA certification is good for 3 years..." to create a reasonable extrapolation into the future of when the "640-803 CCNA" certification exam may be released.

Your assumption here is based on how big the re-cert window for the CCNA certification is, not on trends set by the only authority on this matter, Cisco Systems. In recent years, they've updated the exam every four years and have not changed the time frame you have to recertify. I did post the wrong date for the retirement of the 640-801 exam, that's true, which shows a very good reason why it's important to read Cisco's information closely, not blindly follow what someone on a forum tells you.

tech-airman wrote: »

Your addition of another point of the 640-607 CCNA exam retirement date weakens your argument because there exists two paths to recertification, not just one. For someone holding a valid CCNA certificate through taking and passing 640-607 CCNA certification has the option of taking and passing either the 640-801 CCNA certification exam or the 640-811 ICND certification exam to recertify. Therefore, your attempt at creating a linear relationship between the newly added predecessor point of the 640-607 CCNA certification exam retirement date to the 640-801 CCNA retirement date as the basis of your extrapolation does not take into consideration factors such as: 1) there was the 640-811 ICND certification exam option for recertification 2) students of the Cisco Networking Academy in the CCNA 3.1 curriculum were permitted to attempt the certification exams for the 640-801 CCNA generation of certification exams beyond the public retirement date of 11/06/07. So since you added one predecessor point, I added all predecessor points to the beginning of the CCNA certification exams to the very first one which was the 640-407 CCNA certification exam of 1998. So from the 640-407 CCNA certification exam through to the 640-607 CCNA certification exam, since there was only one track/path, a two point analysis may be appropriate. However, trying to use two point analysis from the 640-607 CCNA certfication exam to only the 640-801 CCNA certification exam is not the only path therefore it's not completely true because you neglected to take the 640-811 ICND certification exam into consideration.

You mentioned "...with the exception of saying that ICND1 from the old exam does count towards the new one..." The 640-822 ICND1 certification exam is part of the 640-802 CCNA certification exam generation. The 640-801 CCNA certification exam generation included the 640-821 INTRO certification exam and the 640-811 ICND certification exam.



You may know second hand information from "...know[ing] more than one person..." but I'm speaking from first hand experience. When my CCNA certification by taking and passing the 640-607 CCNA certification exam was up for recertification, the recertification options for me were the 640-801 CCNA certification exam and the 640-811 ICND certification exam.

Very true, you added the information that taking either a current CCNA or ICND2 exam will renew the CCNA certification, but I'm still not sure what you're trying to argue here, exactly. . . I'm assuming you're looking for some sort of fight based on information that I either neglected to mention or forgot to. Adding to what I said is probably more constructive than attempting to disprove the whole statement by jumping on one part of it and attempting to replace it with your own explanation.

tech-airman wrote: »

You mention "...but you're expected to either upgrade or re-certify..." I believe that's called the "either or logical fallacy." There's also the unlisted option of letting your certification lapse.

Again, it seems like you're more interested in provoking an argument, (i.e. you have to be right and others have to be wrong,) than actually informing the original poster of Cisco's policies. If a person doesn't realise that not recertifying means the exam expiring, they probably shouldn't be allowed near a production network to begin with.

tech-airman wrote: »

You mention "...you still have to renew your exam every three years..." A certified individual to remain certified must complete a recertification action beFORE three years has elapsed since being certified, not every three years. Exactly at the three year mark down to the day is when the certificate expires. Once again, I speak from first hand experience.

Again, here you're trying to provoke an Internet message-board argument, not really inform anyone. The window for recertifying is 3 years, I fully agree with that. However, jumping on semantics in order to pursue a fight isn't very productive, nor does it do anything to help clarify the subject. If you'd be happier with me saying "the certification window is 3 years from the date you took the test", as opposed to "you have to recertify every three years", then fine, I'll say that. Again, though, if it's completely unclear to someone reading this that "every three years" means "your certification will expire in three years if you don't renew or upgrade before then", then they really have to reconsider how closely they're reading the information on Cisco's site before they sit for the exam.

tech-airman wrote: »

You mention "...so far it's been every four years..." So the 640-801 CCNA certification exam retired on 11/06/07. According to your estimate, the predecessor 640-607 CCNA certification exam retired on 11/06/03. Actual retirement date was 30Sep03. Continuing your extrapolation, according to your estimate, the predecessor 640-507 CCNA certification exam retired 4 years prior to 11/06/03 (since this in compliance with your "4 year rule") which is 11/06/99. Then the predecessor 640-407 CCNA certification exam must have (according to your rule), retired on 11/06/95. There's a problem in that the CCNA certification program didn't start until 1998. So how could the 640-407 CCNA certification exam retire before it existed?

There is no "rule" here, I also said "if they hold to their pattern." The operative word here is "if". I suggest you read posts a bit more thoroughly before deciding that they're wrong and taking up the cause to prove it.

tech-airman wrote: »

How often an individual must recertify their Cisco certifications is at the discretion of Cisco System. Currently it is withIN 3 years of re/certification, not every three years. It's Vue that takes your money for the Cisco certification exams.

Cisco designs their own exams, they outsource the actual testing to Vue. In the end, money goes to Cisco, (in addition to Vue's fee for administering the test).

Slowhand

To the original poster, this thread's gotten a little confusing, so let me see if I can't clarify some of the things we've discussed:

Currently, the 640-802 exam is not scheduled to be retired. That won't happen until Cisco actually announces it, which is usually quite a long time before it actually happens. Even though you didn't ask about it, there is also the two-exam option, 640-822 and 640-816, (ICND1 and ICND2, respectively,) which also can be taken to become CCNA certified. Once certified, you have three years to either recertify or upgrade your CCNA or it will, in fact, expire. All of what has been talked about can also be found on this page of Cisco's website. If there are any changes made to the CCNA exam, it will be announced there. For an idea of what's been offered in the past, as well as the exact dates of when exams were retired, you can look on the aforementioned Retired Certification Paths page.

Good luck with your studies. Hopefully, they'll be less convoluted than this thread.

mikej412

I'm actually surprised that there haven't been any recent rumors.

While there have been several Cisco Press books/edition upgrades that never happened and dropped off of Amazon pre-order status, a Todd sighting is probably enough to ramp up the rumor mill.

badboyeee wrote: »

Also note that there will be a 7th edition of the paperback, coming out in April 2011:
Amazon.com: CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide, (Includes CD-ROM) (9780470901076): Todd Lammle: Books

Remember that you usually get 5-6 months (with Cisco Network Academy Students getting even more time) to take the old exam(s) from the OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT -- and Cisco usually offers a Mix 'n Match option for any multiple exam certification options (with the old CCNP ONT/ISCW exams being the only recent "get both or none" exception)

Cisco Live! (Networkers) London at the end of the month (the online virtual event is scheduled Feb 1 & 2 during the wee hours of the morning here in the states). The time just before and durning Cisco Live! events are always popular for certification upgrade rumors -- and official announcements.

Slowhand

The description for the 7th edition of Lammle's book doesn't specify either the 640-802 or the (assumed) 640-803 exams specifically, (it's not mentioned on the offical Sybex site either,) but it'd be strange to think that a book for a new exam would be announced before Cisco themselves have even hinted at an update.

One thing that does occur to me is that Cisco might not have as much incentive to update the CCNA at this point in time as they've had in the past. Routing and switching technologies haven't really changed in their fundamentals all that much since the 640-802 was launched, and the specialty exams cover changes and updates in other types of networking technologies, (like VoIP and firewalls, for example.) If nothing else, an updated version of the CCNA might have fewer topics to cover, much like the changes we saw in the CCNP.

We'll have to wait and see. If there is a change on the horizon, Cisco will announce it when they're damn good and ready.