Promotion Requests

luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
I have been working with the same company for the past 3 years, and I am up for a promotion in the next 2 weeks. The promotion is guaranteed, but I am not sure what I will be getting out of the promotion other than my normal 5K a year raise and bumped up to the next pay grade.

I have a few requests to go along with the promotion, but I am not sure how to approach this. I would like to request at least a 10k increase in salary and a new title "Senior Network/Server Administrator". Both of these seems reasonable for the amount of work I put in, the amount of technologies and different software/hardware I deal with, and my current and future certification level (Will be VCP 410 within the month).

How do I go about asking for these requests in my promotion interview? Should I write up a formal document outlining my company value and how I have made an impact over the years, and list my requirements? I would then submit this during the interview and explain each point and request and how I am deserving of it. Should I just make a verbal request at the interview?

This will be one of the first promotion I have actually accepted over the years, and I want to make sure I get what I think I am valued at in the company.

Thanks for your input.

Comments

  • mikedisd2mikedisd2 Member Posts: 1,096 ■■■■■□□□□□
    Wow, you normally get a 5k raise every year? You ARE lucky.

    Make sure you can back up why you are worth the increase you are requesting. Find out the average pay standard for your field.
    And remember to stay calm when negotiating. Money can be a very emotive subject.
  • Hyper-MeHyper-Me Banned Posts: 2,059
    Well good luck. I work in the public sector and went from a tech to a Senior Systems Admin. and didnt get a raise, at all. I've even shown my superiors that the market rate for my job in this area is more than 50% higher than what im paid now, but still no dice.

    5 a year is kinda nuts, I get a yearly raise of maybe 1200$.
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I don't automatically get a $5k raise, I bust my ass for it, but I have hit the highest marks in my reviews every year to get the highest payout.

    Honestly, I don't know if you would find a harder worker that is more dedicated to doing a good job than myself. I give it 110% no matter what I am tasked with.

    Taking in account for my work experience(10+ years in IT, 7+ in administration), CIS Degree from Texas A&M, and the field related certs (especially VCP) would land me with an $80k job easily. I am aware I work for the City and the varying market, but $10k from what I am making now does not even put me close to what I think I should be making.

    Aside from the title change and salary requirement, how should I approach my manager for either, written with an explanation, or just an explanation?

    Thanks
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
    luckybob wrote: »
    I don't automatically get a $5k raise, I bust my ass for it, but I have hit the highest marks in my reviews every year to get the highest payout.

    Honestly, I don't know if you would find a harder worker that is more dedicated to doing a good job than myself. I give it 110% no matter what I am tasked with.

    Taking in account for my work experience(10+ years in IT, 7+ in administration), CIS Degree from Texas A&M, and the field related certs (especially VCP) would land me with an $80k job easily. I am aware I work for the City and the varying market, but $10k from what I am making now does not even put me close to what I think I should be making.

    Aside from the title change and salary requirement, how should I approach my manager for either, written with an explanation, or just an explanation?

    Thanks

    IMO if you feel like the market rate for your services is more than you're making now, then go get it. Nothing triggers action from an employer like, well, action.... Presenting a "case" that justifies how much you are worth in the open market to me smacks of being both chickenshit and threatening. If I were your manager I would tell you to go for it if that were the approach you chose.

    Not to sound harsh, IMO, the only "explanation" is a letter of resignation tendered when you've been offered what you want. If your current employer chooses then they can counteroffer you. To produce some kind of justification for why you're worth more than you're getting at the job that you're choosing to keep (for whatever reason) is a waste of your time. There are reasons aside from money that people choose to stay in jobs, and I would think a smart manager would be prepared to counter any justification you make with such an argument.

    Regarding the title change, does your employer not have specific job categories, grades and titles that would dictate what your next title would be in the event of a promotion? If you're looking for a certain title because you think there is an industry standard or something I think you might be chasing something that doesn't exist.

    MS
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    eMeS wrote: »
    IMO if you feel like the market rate for your services is more than you're making now, then go get it. Nothing triggers action from an employer like, well, action.... Presenting a "case" that justifies how much you are worth in the open market to me smacks of being both chickenshit and threatening. If I were your manager I would tell you to go for it if that were the approach you chose.

    I never said I was going to threaten my boss with leaving if I was not to get a nice raise with my promotion. The reason I came on her to ask about it was to find a tactful way of requesting more money. The whole ideas of a written request was to outline the many upgrades and projects I have designed and implemented. The guy who passes out the money is not the same guy who evaluates me for the year.
    eMeS wrote: »
    Not to sound harsh, IMO, the only "explanation" is a letter of resignation tendered when you've been offered what you want. If your current employer chooses then they can counteroffer you. To produce some kind of justification for why you're worth more than you're getting at the job that you're choosing to keep (for whatever reason) is a waste of your time. There are reasons aside from money that people choose to stay in jobs, and I would think a smart manager would be prepared to counter any justification you make with such an argument.

    This is true and I have no plans of leaving my job regardless of the incentives I may or may not get with my promotion. (I only have 2 more years to be vested, not going to loose that now). I have a job I will never get fired from, or if there is a way I have no idea how. We hired a guy that slept everyday in his office for a month. He was let go after a month with 2 weeks severance and a letter of recommendation.
    eMeS wrote: »
    Regarding the title change, does your employer not have specific job categories, grades and titles that would dictate what your next title would be in the event of a promotion? If you're looking for a certain title because you think there is an industry standard or something I think you might be chasing something that doesn't exist.

    MS

    The title change is for different reasons. We recently hired a new Network/Server Administrator on the team. I was told he was being hired as the Junior N/S Admin, but low and behold he holds the same title/pay (I assume) that I do, yet he can not do anything. Let me rephrase, if he is asked to do something he throws his hands up and says he doesn't want or know how to do it. I want something to differentiate myself from him, outside of actual knowledge, when meeting with outside vendors/contacts. We are a newly created department, so the structure is really bad. I am technically a tech level 3 and I will be promoted to a tech level 4.

    I am not looking to put the screws to the man or anything, I was just taking this promotion as an opportunity to ask for a salary increase since I failed to negotiate this better when being hired, and since I had worked hard to become certified in technologies we use. I have no plans of leaving my job for whatever reason. I run the show at work, I wouldn't want to give that up.
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
    luckybob wrote: »
    I never said I was going to threaten my boss with leaving if I was not to get a nice raise with my promotion. The reason I came on her to ask about it was to find a tactful way of requesting more money. The whole ideas of a written request was to outline the many upgrades and projects I have designed and implemented. The guy who passes out the money is not the same guy who evaluates me for the year.

    Apologies if I misunderstood.

    Ask for what you want. If you don't get it, ask someone else or change what you want.

    Two common problems that I've seen in people in these situations:

    1) They don't really know what they want (I think you do know what you want)
    2) They are timid about asking for what they want

    Regarding a tactful approach, really you're the only person that can answer that, because you're the only person here that knows what blows air up your manager's skirt.

    My approach tends to be very direct...I will ask for what I want, but this can be off-putting to some people.
    luckybob wrote: »
    The title change is for different reasons. We recently hired a new Network/Server Administrator on the team. I was told he was being hired as the Junior N/S Admin, but low and behold he holds the same title/pay (I assume) that I do, yet he can not do anything. Let me rephrase, if he is asked to do something he throws his hands up and says he doesn't want or know how to do it. I want something to differentiate myself from him, outside of actual knowledge, when meeting with outside vendors/contacts. We are a newly created department, so the structure is really bad. I am technically a tech level 3 and I will be promoted to a tech level 4.

    IMO that's a losing battle. What differentiates you is your character, knowledge, commitment and ability to get things done. A job title doesn't really differentiate you. The results that you achieve do, and over time that's what gives you what you're looking for. Personally, in environments where I've worked, exposing that I wanted a different title than someone else would have exposed a weakness that others could have used to make my life difficult.

    Ignore titles.
    luckybob wrote: »
    I am not looking to put the screws to the man or anything, I was just taking this promotion as an opportunity to ask for a salary increase since I failed to negotiate this better when being hired, and since I had worked hard to become certified in technologies we use. I have no plans of leaving my job for whatever reason. I run the show at work, I wouldn't want to give that up.

    "Running the show" is what makes you different. I understand that you would like to make more money for that. However, it sounds like there is a lot of freedom to do "nothing" where you work, if that's your choice. Clearly you've chosen to actually work, but one thing that you must remember is that this was your choice, and does not necessarily entitle you to more money. What matters is how the organization decides to allocate raises promotions, etc... Sometimes this is called "playing the game".

    IMO the best approach is the direct approach. Another way to look at this is to ask the question, "what will you get if you don't ask?".

    Best wishes,

    MS
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    eMeS wrote: »
    IMO the best approach is the direct approach. Another way to look at this is to ask the question, "what will you get if you don't ask?".

    MS

    This is the approach I am coming from. I tend to try to do things as professional as possible, but my job hardly requires it. There is really nothing for me to loose by asking for more money, I will get a yes or no, and that will be the end of it. As I said before my job affords me too many opportunities to toss it away because of a few extra thousand a year. I play basketball twice a week with my head manager, I might see what his take is on the whole thing.

    Thanks for the advice eMeS.
  • elove_jmelove_jm Member Posts: 12 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Be careful about submiting all those request, especially in this economy like that unless you are confident you'll be able to find another job quickly. You can make an argument about pay raise, Senior title comes with years of experience company should define what title you'll have based on that (How much exp do you have in total?).
  • Hyper-MeHyper-Me Banned Posts: 2,059
    luckybob wrote: »
    I am not looking to put the screws to the man or anything, I was just taking this promotion as an opportunity to ask for a salary increase since I failed to negotiate this better when being hired, and since I had worked hard to become certified in technologies we use. I have no plans of leaving my job for whatever reason. I run the show at work, I wouldn't want to give that up.


    Dude your situation sounds identical to mine.

    You didnt like...steal my life did you?

    Actually you couldnt have, because you get bigger raises than me. icon_lol.gif
  • blargoeblargoe Member Posts: 4,174 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Man luckybob, it sounds like you're the parallel universe version of me, except without the merit raises and promotion.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 11/2019 - RHCSA (RHEL 7); 2/2019 - Updated VCP to 6.5 (just a few days before VMware discontinued the re-cert policy...)
    Working on: RHCE/Ansible
    Future: Probably continued Red Hat Immersion, Possibly VCAP Design, or maybe a completely different path. Depends on job demands...
  • hollow666hollow666 Member Posts: 50 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I scored a 15k raise last year by getting another job offer and putting in two weeks notice.............. took them about 1 hour to call a meeting with the CIO and counter offer.........
  • carboncopycarboncopy Member Posts: 259
    hollow666 wrote: »
    I scored a 15k raise last year by getting another job offer and putting in two weeks notice.............. took them about 1 hour to call a meeting with the CIO and counter offer.........

    So did you put in your 2 weeks and when they asked why, you told them that you had another job offering you 15k more?
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I was actually looking for a different job before the economy went down the crapper. With the current state of the job market I felt it was better to sit tight for now and cert up as much as possible, since my employer pays for any cert I pass. I am also contemplating returning to school for my Masters, since I am still in the college town. (which I hate)

    There will have to be some pretty big perks for me to leave my current job. As I said before, it is almost impossible for me to get fired. Since I am the most knowledgeable in both Communications and IT, I can get away with doing whatever I want. Most of the upper management knows I have a great worth ethic so it affords me things like 2 hour lunches, the ability to help out with my kids when they are sick, heading out for the day no questions asked. I also have excellent heath benefits and retirement. I love my job, it is just my base pay is not where I would like it to be.

    MY options right now are to stay put till I am at least fully vested to get my retirement match, which is another 2 years. I just want to make the best of it now, plus if I am brought up to a salary I am happy with, I would have no problem staying another 15 years.
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
    carboncopy wrote: »
    So did you put in your 2 weeks and when they asked why, you told them that you had another job offering you 15k more?

    I'm going to bet the answer to that is "no".

    More likely, the question would be "what do we have to do to get you to stay on board."

    My thought is that an employer doesn't need to know what you're worth to someone else; instead, what they really need to do is decide what you're worth to them.

    MS
  • Jamesm3Jamesm3 Member Posts: 72 ■■□□□□□□□□
    luckybob wrote: »
    As I said before, it is almost impossible for me to get fired. Since I am the most knowledgeable in both Communications and IT, I can get away with doing whatever I want.

    My advice is to remember no one is indispensable, no matter how good you are.
    like 2 hour lunches, the ability to help out with my kids when they are sick, heading out for the day no questions asked.

    Helping out with kids is good, however if you do the other two items alot your co-workers (if you have them in your team) may think you're taking the piss. Even your BOSS might start too feel the same way.

    The trouble starts when other people located in different departments notice and gossip between themselves about how you get away with taking 2 hour lunch breaks without making it up at the end of the day.

    However, looks like you have a good job.
    C|EHv9, Security+, MCITP:SA - MCITP:EA - MCTS - MCSE - MCSA - MCP - MCP+i - Network+ - A+
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Jamesm3 wrote: »
    Helping out with kids is good, however if you do the other two items alot your co-workers (if you have them in your team) may think you're taking the piss. Even your BOSS might start too feel the same way.

    The trouble starts when other people located in different departments notice and gossip between themselves about how you get away with taking 2 hour lunch breaks without making it up at the end of the day.

    However, looks like you have a good job.

    My boss and I go to the gym together for lunch. He has extended the same offer to anyone in the department, I am just the only one who takes it.

    It is not that I think I am indispensable, its a government job, so as long as I show up and get something done, no one seems to care. I personally believe in having a job to work it and therefore have come up with enough work to last for quite some time. Before I was hired on the company had no DR, everything ran on vlan 1, and there were no policy or procedures for anything. Because of me, we have a fully functional DR site with synchronized replication to our storage. We have adapted VMware and I have created more redundancy and saved over 100K just this year in server hardware and licensing (more if you include power). I have implemented full fiber redundancy to all our branch location, setup EIGRP and HSRP for network redundancy (I can run and splice fiber also). I have taken the company from the stone age to the new age, so anything I get I have earned 10 fold. I have more comp time than I can use, and 4 weeks of vacation in the bank. I don't believe in slacking, and if you want something you have to work for it. Coming into this job I knew I would be guaranteed a cost of living increase every year, even if I came to work with my thumb up my butt. I have set a standard and scored the highest marks on my yearly reviews every year. My boss literally told me he had to make up a negative comment on my last review so it would look like I had to improve on something to the General Manager(CEO). So the bottom line, I earn everything I have gotten.
  • Jamesm3Jamesm3 Member Posts: 72 ■■□□□□□□□□
    luckybob wrote: »

    Wow, wish there were more IT people with your expierence.

    You need to ask for a raise!

    I've run plenty of fibre but never spliced it. Is it an easy job?

    VMWare Rocks, lovely lean mean virtual machines icon_lol.gif

    James
    C|EHv9, Security+, MCITP:SA - MCITP:EA - MCTS - MCSE - MCSA - MCP - MCP+i - Network+ - A+
  • hollow666hollow666 Member Posts: 50 ■■□□□□□□□□
    eMeS wrote: »
    I'm going to bet the answer to that is "no".

    More likely, the question would be "what do we have to do to get you to stay on board."

    My thought is that an employer doesn't need to know what you're worth to someone else; instead, what they really need to do is decide what you're worth to them.

    MS

    That is essentially what happened. They wanted a ballpark figure of what I wanted to stay. They met exactly what I was asking for within a couple cents due to how they had to rig the payscale for my job code.
  • UnixGuyUnixGuy Mod Posts: 4,570 Mod
    luckybob wrote: »
    My boss and I go to the gym together for lunch. He has extended the same offer to anyone in the department, I am just the only one who takes it.

    It is not that I think I am indispensable, its a government job, so as long as I show up and get something done, no one seems to care. I personally believe in having a job to work it and therefore have come up with enough work to last for quite some time. Before I was hired on the company had no DR, everything ran on vlan 1, and there were no policy or procedures for anything. Because of me, we have a fully functional DR site with synchronized replication to our storage. We have adapted VMware and I have created more redundancy and saved over 100K just this year in server hardware and licensing (more if you include power). I have implemented full fiber redundancy to all our branch location, setup EIGRP and HSRP for network redundancy (I can run and splice fiber also). I have taken the company from the stone age to the new age, so anything I get I have earned 10 fold. I have more comp time than I can use, and 4 weeks of vacation in the bank. I don't believe in slacking, and if you want something you have to work for it. Coming into this job I knew I would be guaranteed a cost of living increase every year, even if I came to work with my thumb up my butt. I have set a standard and scored the highest marks on my yearly reviews every year. My boss literally told me he had to make up a negative comment on my last review so it would look like I had to improve on something to the General Manager(CEO). So the bottom line, I earn everything I have gotten.



    Reading all your responses, it seems to me that you have a really good job. There's more to a job than money, but nevertheless money is the most important factor.


    I think it boils down a to personal choice, and what's important to you. If you want more money, you ask for it. If there's another employer who's willing to pay you, then just go and get a new job. But keep in mind the work/life balance...some employers will pay you much more, but they will burn you out and damage your personal life...so think about all these things.
    Certs: GSTRT, GPEN, GCFA, CISM, CRISC, RHCE

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  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    luckybob wrote: »
    I have been working with the same company for the past 3 years, and I am up for a promotion in the next 2 weeks. The promotion is guaranteed, but I am not sure what I will be getting out of the promotion other than my normal 5K a year raise and bumped up to the next pay grade.

    I have a few requests to go along with the promotion, but I am not sure how to approach this. I would like to request at least a 10k increase in salary and a new title "Senior Network/Server Administrator". Both of these seems reasonable for the amount of work I put in, the amount of technologies and different software/hardware I deal with, and my current and future certification level (Will be VCP 410 within the month).

    How do I go about asking for these requests in my promotion interview? Should I write up a formal document outlining my company value and how I have made an impact over the years, and list my requirements? I would then submit this during the interview and explain each point and request and how I am deserving of it. Should I just make a verbal request at the interview?

    This will be one of the first promotion I have actually accepted over the years, and I want to make sure I get what I think I am valued at in the company.

    Thanks for your input.

    I have followed the post. You have a good job there. Your relationship with your easy going boss is good, you seem to get a lot of lattitude to express yourself technically there if not have the run of the place and this has offered you the opportunity to make some changes and work over the infrastructure. Calling the shots there will help you aspire to a TDA role in the future if you see yourself directing and designing technical changes as opposed to merely implementing and supporting what other people have decided should be there. There are exceptions, but the money leans heavily towards the former camp. You seem to manage your own time as well. If you want more money ask for it. It seems to me there may be reasons to justify an increase if you remind them of improvements made to their bottom line through your efforts, and the potential improvements in store for them by sticking around. Of course if you are not serious about moving and will stay on regardless perhaps think over how bullish you should be in your demands. Having had the chance to do lots of things is helpful if you are serious about moving to the private sector. Service Partners are pushing harder for new business often without the inhouse technical experience to deliver properly. Budgets for staff and training are down. Expect difficult work to deliver virtualization, IPT, MPLS, SAN, Juniper, Multicast trading, to name but a few. Aggressive work and deadlines with assigned project managers who are also under pressure and are relying on you to have the answers. Time on the road, extremely long hours and often a lot to worry about. So that can be pretty hairy work and no two hour lunch breaks. Same for banking..'Get this ******* thing fixed now Im losing ******* money!'
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Turgon wrote: »
    I have followed the post. You have a good job there. Your relationship with your easy going boss is good, you seem to get a lot of lattitude to express yourself technically there if not have the run of the place and this has offered you the opportunity to make some changes and work over the infrastructure. Calling the shots there will help you aspire to a TDA role in the future if you see yourself directing and designing technical changes as opposed to merely implementing and supporting what other people have decided should be there. There are exceptions, but the money leans heavily towards the former camp. You seem to manage your own time as well. If you want more money ask for it. It seems to me there may be reasons to justify an increase if you remind them of improvements made to their bottom line through your efforts, and the potential improvements in store for them by sticking around. Of course if you are not serious about moving and will stay on regardless perhaps think over how bullish you should be in your demands. Having had the chance to do lots of things is helpful if you are serious about moving to the private sector. Service Partners are pushing harder for new business often without the inhouse technical experience to deliver properly. Budgets for staff and training are down. Expect difficult work to deliver virtualization, IPT, MPLS, SAN, Juniper, Multicast trading, to name but a few. Aggressive work and deadlines with assigned project managers who are also under pressure and are relying on you to have the answers. Time on the road, extremely long hours and often a lot to worry about. So that can be pretty hairy work and no two hour lunch breaks. Same for banking..'Get this ******* thing fixed now Im losing ******* money!'

    Those are some good points, and definitely things I have thought of. I actually used to work in the Banking Industry. I developed and implemented all the security procedures and server hardening techniques for the last financial institute I worked for. I was brought on to do just that, and took a pretty unsecured (hacked at one point) infrastructure to air tight Fort Knox. I only left the job because they were bought out by another bank.

    Quality of life is a big bonus, having time with my family and kids is paramount. Before I take any new job I always make sure to let them know my family comes first. My current job allows all that and some, but that is not the issue. I see myself settling for mediocrity, where I feel I have the potential for something better. Money isn't everything, but it sure greases the wheels and makes a tough decision easy.
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Jamesm3 wrote: »
    Wow, wish there were more IT people with your expierence.

    You need to ask for a raise!

    I've run plenty of fibre but never spliced it. Is it an easy job?

    VMWare Rocks, lovely lean mean virtual machines icon_lol.gif

    James

    Splicing fiber is more tedious than anything. We have a fusion splicer and it is just a matter of stripping the fiber and aligning it properly. Since we are a municipality, we have fiber all over the city (20+ locations, with a redundant loop). the bigger jobs, miles of it, are contracted out just because of the time involved. Last year we hired a guy to handle the fiber because it became such a big part of what we are doing. Before he was hired on, I setup a fiber ring to all of our branch locations, that makes it to where we can loose any single fiber connection and still not be down. I have redundant fiber to our main office and DR location to support HSRP and router failure.
  • draineydrainey Member Posts: 261
    I've been in your postition, at a former job I was titled PC Technician, but my role was sys admin, doing everything from basic break/fix to running fiber, installing//securiing point to point wireless solutions, etc. Job was great, pay sucked. Since then I've moved accross country and had a better paying job doing the same thing, but the company sucked, they treated people like dirt and when the economy tanked they pulled 5 (out of icon_cool.gif technicians (myself included) in a room, gave us a 5 minute speech about the economy tanking and how they could no longer afford us and gave us 10 minutes to pack our stuff and get out.

    Money is great, but liking your job and going to work is better. Don't worry about what the supposed pay range for your typical job role is. Look at what makes you happy overall. If you want more go ask for it. You can do it in person (doesn't need to be writing) but do outline what your asking for and why you deserve it (not why you think you deserve - but why you do deserve it).

    Best of luck.
    The irony truly is strange that you're the only one you can change. -- Anthony Gomes
  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    luckybob wrote: »
    Those are some good points, and definitely things I have thought of. I actually used to work in the Banking Industry. I developed and implemented all the security procedures and server hardening techniques for the last financial institute I worked for. I was brought on to do just that, and took a pretty unsecured (hacked at one point) infrastructure to air tight Fort Knox. I only left the job because they were bought out by another bank.

    Quality of life is a big bonus, having time with my family and kids is paramount. Before I take any new job I always make sure to let them know my family comes first. My current job allows all that and some, but that is not the issue. I see myself settling for mediocrity, where I feel I have the potential for something better. Money isn't everything, but it sure greases the wheels and makes a tough decision easy.


    Money certainly isn't everything and when you have dependents it pays to reflect on the potential longer term consequences of any position offered on your family life. Far too many IT professionals do not see their children grow up. Think 5 years down the line.

    What you are describing is a senior role offering what many of us either already have or are looking for. It's not the holy grail, there are jobs that pay well, offer perks and provide you with a say in how things should be done around the shop. In the larger private organisations the workflow is often streamed with milestones and delivery managers assigned to it and there is often a lot of process involved not only change control but layers of approval and resource meetings. If you find yourself in a TDA role in such an environment you would have both the challenge you need and the money as the business and the infrastructure professionals will be counting on your expertise. For the smaller companies, less resources to call upon and delegate to, and smaller scale projects. Also less process and a more informal way of working such as you are used to in your present job.

    Have a look around and when talking to people set their expectations of what you are looking for and what you want to do. So long as you are personable and can do what you say you can opportunities will arise. You don't have to take a no lifer job to make more money. There are no shortage of those out there and they do get filled by people who work very hard indeed. You may just have to work a little harder on the jobsearch front to find the nice alternatives. Be mindful of salary or contract rates. In today's market $75000 dollars for a fulltime CCIE in the UK isn't uncommon. People are working for that. You could expect someone to earn a little more than that in the US but you need it to cover all the things you have to pay for privately over there which our taxes are supposed to cover over here. You can still get what you are looking for moneywise, but think over in advance what your answer to the question 'Why should I pay you more?' will be.
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    So I just got an update for the whole review and promotion process. I ended up with a 15% raise in the end.

    During me review, I commented on the promotion and how I expected to get a certain raise along with it (at this point I was only getting a 9% raise). My boss and his boss agreed that my hard work should be rewarded. They both went to the CIO and CEO and pushed for a larger "promotion" raise. I found out this morning that everything had been approved, without hesitation, and I would get getting 14% instead of 9% this year.

    So in the end, I am glad I spoke up and asked for more money. If my wife would have had her way I would have remained silent and would have just been appreciative of having a steady job.

    Thanks for everyone who gave advice and comments on this issue.
  • TechJunkyTechJunky Member Posts: 881
    Congrats! Dont take that jesture lightly. They did the right thing in an economy that is not doing very well.

    I feel I dont make enough money or have the title I deserve, but thats life. I have saved the company $356k and the year isn't over. I have another $50k job that is usually out sourced and I am mroe than likely going to do that work flow as well.

    Not only that, I have done 10x more work than all my co-workers combined. Yes, this is fact and its on paper. These are not small upgrades/changes either. We are talking multiple hospital campus upgrades for our billing systems, dietary departments, time keeping system etc.

    These are very highly visible applications that get utilized every day.

    I will be lucky if I get $1200 raise this year. Usually 2% is the max the department is alloted per person. To give you an idea. I have completed work that has taken the team 7 years to try and accomplish in under a year. Be happy where you are. I couldn't imagine a 15% increase at my salary though each year. It would get too out of hand and I would be let go.
  • luckybobluckybob Member Posts: 65 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I don't take my job for granted, I know it is good and I am lucky. I actually spoke with my head manager about it, and let him know I did not want to make waves, but I felt there was no harm in asking. He agreed and encouraged me to bring things like this to his attention. Although I did get a higher raise, he made it abundantly clear it was a well deserved raise.

    Since 2005 I have increased my salary by $35,000/yr (in total). I got $20,000 more by switching jobs, and $15,000 more in the past 2 years due to performance. Hard work does pay off.
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