Potential new job and salary questions.

/usr

I've been considering and discussing a new position as of late. I've become increasingly unhappy with my current employer for various reasons (that's another rant I had intended on posting here at some point). Although I enjoy my work, there are other factors that all add up to this growing unhappiness.

I currently make just under $40,000 a year, but there are other factors added in that bring up the overall compensation value.

I always keep my options open and enjoy interviewing for jobs when I find an interesting one. This one seems very promising for quite a few reasons and I'm trying to place as much weight on that as well as the pay.

When I had my first contact it was a telephone interview and I was asked about a salary range. The interviewer cited the reason to be that there was no sense in us wasting each others time if we had two completely different salary ranges in mind. While I realize that it seems to be generally accepted advice to never name a number first, I also agree that there is no sense in wasting my time with interviews if they are looking to pay less than what I currently make.
I stated that I was looking for something in the mid $40K range and that the actual number was negotiable based upon other compensation.

At the end, the interviewer seemed to think we had enough in common regarding the position to schedule a face to face interview with another member of the company. That interview also seemed to go quite well and I am currently waiting to hear back from them, which I believe I will

I suppose my predicament is this. I really do have an idea in my head what the lowest salary is I'll accept. Though the position is intriguing for several other reasons, just off the top of my head I would be spending roughly $3000 a year on gasoline driving to and from work, because as of right now I drive one of our company vehicles to/from work.

It would be a very difficult for me to leave my current job for less than $45K a year, but I realize their goal is to get me as cheap as possible. Assuming an offer is made that is less than this, exactly how would I go about negotiating a higher salary and proving that I am worth what I am asking?

Any thoughts/input would be greatly appreciated!

blargoe

Well, you gave them a "range" which should suffice for now. If they like you, and you end up liking them, they will probably try to meet your stated expectation. Just be up front with them if they offer you less. Tell them that less than 45K would end up costing you more to work for them than keeping the current job. If that's the lowest you can accept, then you need to stick to it.

RobertKaucher

Tips for a Successful Salary Negotiation

tpatt100

I am no expert on negotiating salary since before the economy went to crap I had a good job so I would throw out some number because I really did not care. I mean the job I was interviewing was great but I liked the job I was at as well (this was probably 8 years ago). Then the job I had before my current one again I did the "throw what ever out there" because this one required a move on my part and my wife losing her job.

This was before the economy went to crap so they gave me what I was making and my wife's salary. Did I mention this was before the economy went to crap? I brought up how I would have to sell my house, move and my wife find another job.

My current job they took they the salary they found out from the background check, a salary which was given to me before the economy went to crap and added what they considered fair to make me give up what I currently had. Of course they had no idea I was losing my job in two months but lets not bring that up shall we? So when they called and made the verbal offer I accepted it, without listening to the HR rep saying I had till Friday to make a counter request...yeah I about passed out when he called in the first place, I was kind of expecting a letter in the mail saying "hey you suck go away we chose some dude in India".

Anyways I guess the point I am trying to make is this:

1. You have a job
2. You like the work you do
3. You hate your boss

I think that is 2 positives and 1 negative right there. You mentioned benefits that to "you" equal around 5K as a value. You said there are other things that annoy you so I can't really determine what to do there, guess you need to figure out how "bad" or "tolerable" they are.

I would like to emphasize that you have a job. Is it secure? That is valuable now a days depending on the economy where you live.

If your job is secure, you like the work are there other things at your current job you could do to maybe improve your skill set? Can you take on additional tasks that you might notice are needed on Dice.com and Monster.com? See what I am getting at here? Find a way to make the current one more tolerable by building your skill set. I did that my first IT job, hated the bosses but liked the work and everybody else. I turned the negative energy into positive energy.

I sucked it up for another year volunteered my butt off getting experience in other things and the certs for it.

I personally do not think with today's economy it is worth it to give up something if you are secure for the great "unknown" of another job unless they pay you something more substantial to make you take the risk.

Now it might be worth it if it expands your skills and could lead to something better.

If you are about to strangle your boss and it is unbearable it might be worth it as well. I was trying for a help desk job that was a Government GS position for security and better benefits and the potential to work my way up from the inside which I figured was worth giving up 20K in salary. And it paid a lot more than unemployment.

I would also like to emphasize that just because the economy sucks, look at the bigger picture. If you have a job you are worth more than the person who is unemployed. Now the guy doing the hiring might not think so but I think you are worth more because you have to give up something to come to my company.

bellhead

When you calculate the cost of a car into a job it is about $8k a year if you use it everyday. In your case using the company vehicle to get back and forth to work is worth $3k in gas + wear and tear on your personal car. Also I bet you never talked to your insurance company about the fact you drive a company car all day for work including starting and stopping at home. They give discounts out for this as your personal vehicle is now recreation only.

I would say give me your offer add a couple of thousand in and then add 8k based upon the car. Then tell them this is how you came up with the #'s.

Turgon

/usr wrote: »

I've been considering and discussing a new position as of late. I've become increasingly unhappy with my current employer for various reasons (that's another rant I had intended on posting here at some point). Although I enjoy my work, there are other factors that all add up to this growing unhappiness.

I currently make just under $40,000 a year, but there are other factors added in that bring up the overall compensation value.

I always keep my options open and enjoy interviewing for jobs when I find an interesting one. This one seems very promising for quite a few reasons and I'm trying to place as much weight on that as well as the pay.

When I had my first contact it was a telephone interview and I was asked about a salary range. The interviewer cited the reason to be that there was no sense in us wasting each others time if we had two completely different salary ranges in mind. While I realize that it seems to be generally accepted advice to never name a number first, I also agree that there is no sense in wasting my time with interviews if they are looking to pay less than what I currently make.
I stated that I was looking for something in the mid $40K range and that the actual number was negotiable based upon other compensation.

At the end, the interviewer seemed to think we had enough in common regarding the position to schedule a face to face interview with another member of the company. That interview also seemed to go quite well and I am currently waiting to hear back from them, which I believe I will

I suppose my predicament is this. I really do have an idea in my head what the lowest salary is I'll accept. Though the position is intriguing for several other reasons, just off the top of my head I would be spending roughly $3000 a year on gasoline driving to and from work, because as of right now I drive one of our company vehicles to/from work.

It would be a very difficult for me to leave my current job for less than $45K a year, but I realize their goal is to get me as cheap as possible. Assuming an offer is made that is less than this, exactly how would I go about negotiating a higher salary and proving that I am worth what I am asking?

Any thoughts/input would be greatly appreciated!

With the economy as it is at present I think you need really good reasons to leave any job where you have already put enough time to be as safe as you can be today. If you have one of those jobs I would encourage you to stick it out and resolve any issues you are experiencing there as best you can. Meanwhile push for more money elsewhere. Again, I think you need really good reasons to change jobs just as things are at the moment. Yes the money might wind up better but as a new boy you are risking a layoff if things tank in the new company.

If you want more money for this potential gig then go back and ask for more when you get an offer in writing. Explain you have done the numbers since you spoke in terms of cost, that they don't quite add up but you want to work for them but need to see a slightly higher figure. Seems reasonable to me and you want to work for reasonable people.

/usr

I sincerely appreciate all of the input you guys have given. I have a few updates and a little more information I would like to share with you, so maybe you could help me a little further.

I received a phone call today with a verbal offer of $10,000 more than my current salary.

Information on current job:
My biggest concerns are not regarding my job stability, but the direction, or complete lack thereof, that the IT portion of the company is headed. I have seen nothing that indicates to me that any change is going to be made, despite my best efforts at voicing my concerns. I continue to see unhappy customers, mismanagement of jobs both large and small, as well as a complete lack of job roles and work prioritization.

I continue to be overworked and what I consider to be underpaid. I have worked here for just over 2 years now. I initially asked for $40,000 a year when I began this job, when I had less but still a reasonable amount of experience, all my currents certs minus CCNA and a bachelors degree in MIS. I was offered less and took it anyway, which ultimately was a good decision on my part because of the experience. However, it's now 2 years later and I've only received one review/raise and no "bonus", which was hinted at when I began this job. It would be impossible to describe it all without another lengthy post in itself, but suffice to say that I have done a hell of a lot for this company from an IT standpoint. I feel completely undervalued and unappreciated.

I also just feel I have hit a wall. As bad as I hate to say it, I am more technically knowledgeable than my boss, but I still feel as though my opinions aren't valued as they should be. I leave work frustrated nearly every day now, no matter how hard I try not to. I am constantly aggravated by decisions that are made which I know are wrong and directly affect me, but have no control over because I'm not the IT manager.

I feel as though my drive to learn has more or less left me. I am a jack of all trades and even though I value that diversity, it's putting a strain on me when it comes to focusing on a particular area and trying to learn more, because I'm constantly being pulled in 10 different directions.



Information on the potential new job:

After doing a bit of research and speaking with the HR representative and the service manager, I feel very optimistic about the position and my ability to learn and grow. They are a Cisco partner. Though they do support other vendors, they only deploy Cisco gear to their clients. They are big into certifications, pushing all employees to pursue more, paying for them, allowing for group study during work hours, etc. They also have two CCIE's on staff.

That alone peaks my interest. Simply being around and working with people that have that level of knowledge intrigues me as much as the pay increase.

They are solely a company that provides IT services, where as I currently work for a company that performs multiple services, IT being only a small portion that isn't generally focused on too much. They have stated they generally let people choose their own path, be that servers or networking and specializations branching off from each, because that yields the best results for both parties.

Obviously I have my concerns. The biggest one being that I now own a home, have a car payment, bills to pay, etc. Job security is of the utmost importance to me right now, and that is unfortunately something I cannot guarantee when taking a risk such as this. Though I believe, through my research and interviews, as well as the fact that they are looking to hire one or two other people, that I would be safe...I have no way of saying for certain.

I also have to do rotations where I would be on call after hours. I'm not going to lie, that's one of the things that turns me off the most as I greatly value my personal time, but it is most certainly a trade off I'm willing to make.

When all is said and done, even with the initial verbal offer, I would expect to actually see a pay increase in usable income of around $3-4K, which is more than the only raise I've received here within the past 2 years. It could be more than that, as I was quite generous when I figured in automobile expenses, but I would rather err on the side of caution.

I really, really feel in my gut that this new opportunity would help me grow more in an all around manner. I also feel as though this new company would be much better at realizing that growth and compensating me accordingly, which is one of the things I lack most with my current employer. But the biggest thing is - I'm just scared of leaving the comfort of my current position.

Anyway, I know this is really long already, so I'll go ahead and post it. Let me know if you have any thoughts...I'm going to call back tomorrow an accept or deny, but I also have yet to talk to my current employer regarding a counter offer of their own. So hopefully tonight, along with whatever discussion comes from this post, will help shed some light on the situation. Thanks guys.

GAngel

/usr wrote: »

I sincerely appreciate all of the input you guys have given. I have a few updates and a little more information I would like to share with you, so maybe you could help me a little further.

I received a phone call today with a verbal offer of $10,000 more than my current salary.

Information on current job:
My biggest concerns are not regarding my job stability, but the direction, or complete lack thereof, that the IT portion of the company is headed. I have seen nothing that indicates to me that any change is going to be made, despite my best efforts at voicing my concerns. I continue to see unhappy customers, mismanagement of jobs both large and small, as well as a complete lack of job roles and work prioritization.

I continue to be overworked and what I consider to be underpaid. I have worked here for just over 2 years now. I initially asked for $40,000 a year when I began this job, when I had less but still a reasonable amount of experience, all my currents certs minus CCNA and a bachelors degree in MIS. I was offered less and took it anyway, which ultimately was a good decision on my part because of the experience. However, it's now 2 years later and I've only received one review/raise and no "bonus", which was hinted at when I began this job. It would be impossible to describe it all without another lengthy post in itself, but suffice to say that I have done a hell of a lot for this company from an IT standpoint. I feel completely undervalued and unappreciated.

I also just feel I have hit a wall. As bad as I hate to say it, I am more technically knowledgeable than my boss, but I still feel as though my opinions aren't valued as they should be. I leave work frustrated nearly every day now, no matter how hard I try not to. I am constantly aggravated by decisions that are made which I know are wrong and directly affect me, but have no control over because I'm not the IT manager.

I feel as though my drive to learn has more or less left me. I am a jack of all trades and even though I value that diversity, it's putting a strain on me when it comes to focusing on a particular area and trying to learn more, because I'm constantly being pulled in 10 different directions.



Information on the potential new job:

After doing a bit of research and speaking with the HR representative and the service manager, I feel very optimistic about the position and my ability to learn and grow. They are a Cisco partner. Though they do support other vendors, they only deploy Cisco gear to their clients. They are big into certifications, pushing all employees to pursue more, paying for them, allowing for group study during work hours, etc. They also have two CCIE's on staff.

That alone peaks my interest. Simply being around and working with people that have that level of knowledge intrigues me as much as the pay increase.

They are solely a company that provides IT services, where as I currently work for a company that performs multiple services, IT being only a small portion that isn't generally focused on too much. They have stated they generally let people choose their own path, be that servers or networking and specializations branching off from each, because that yields the best results for both parties.

Obviously I have my concerns. The biggest one being that I now own a home, have a car payment, bills to pay, etc. Job security is of the utmost importance to me right now, and that is unfortunately something I cannot guarantee when taking a risk such as this. Though I believe, through my research and interviews, as well as the fact that they are looking to hire one or two other people, that I would be safe...I have no way of saying for certain.

I also have to do rotations where I would be on call after hours. I'm not going to lie, that's one of the things that turns me off the most as I greatly value my personal time, but it is most certainly a trade off I'm willing to make.

When all is said and done, even with the initial verbal offer, I would expect to actually see a pay increase in usable income of around $3-4K, which is more than the only raise I've received here within the past 2 years. It could be more than that, as I was quite generous when I figured in automobile expenses, but I would rather err on the side of caution.

I really, really feel in my gut that this new opportunity would help me grow more in an all around manner. I also feel as though this new company would be much better at realizing that growth and compensating me accordingly, which is one of the things I lack most with my current employer. But the biggest thing is - I'm just scared of leaving the comfort of my current position.

Anyway, I know this is really long already, so I'll go ahead and post it. Let me know if you have any thoughts...I'm going to call back tomorrow an accept or deny, but I also have yet to talk to my current employer regarding a counter offer of their own. So hopefully tonight, along with whatever discussion comes from this post, will help shed some light on the situation. Thanks guys.

Just a quick note. I wouldn't talk to your current employer unless you had a physical offer. Verbal offer means nothing. Get the contract in front of you and then at that point if you want to go to your employer.

/usr

More thoughts:

The more I think about it, the more I see the vehicle thing as an ultimate absolute. By that, I mean that any other job I get is going to require me to drive my own car to/from work and that's just going to have to be factored into my salary. I lucked out by falling into the position of being able to drive a company vehicle back/forth to work.

Also, it greatly concerns me that if I pass up this opportunity, that another one may not arise unless I do something drastic, like move out of state. This area isn't exactly a hotspot of IT service. Good companies that pay decent are few and far between. I would be hard pressed to find any IT job around here that is less than a 30 minute drive each way.

Thoughts?

/usr

Just a quick note. I wouldn't talk to your current employer unless you had a physical offer. Verbal offer means nothing. Get the contract in front of you and then at that point if you want to go to your employer.

I was thinking that myself, but I'm glad you pointed it out.

tpatt100

Well to be honest two years is not that long at one employer and many people today are not getting raises to avoid increases to their benefits cost or are getting pay cuts.

If you think the other job sounds better then go for it.

But as far as a counter offer I would just bail to be honest if you don't get along with your boss anyways. Accept the offer and put your two weeks in.

veritas_libertas

/usr wrote: »

I sincerely appreciate all of the input you guys have given. I have a few updates and a little more information I would like to share with you, so maybe you could help me a little further.

I received a phone call today with a verbal offer of $10,000 more than my current salary.

Information on current job:
My biggest concerns are not regarding my job stability, but the direction, or complete lack thereof, that the IT portion of the company is headed. I have seen nothing that indicates to me that any change is going to be made, despite my best efforts at voicing my concerns. I continue to see unhappy customers, mismanagement of jobs both large and small, as well as a complete lack of job roles and work prioritization.

I continue to be overworked and what I consider to be underpaid. I have worked here for just over 2 years now. I initially asked for $40,000 a year when I began this job, when I had less but still a reasonable amount of experience, all my currents certs minus CCNA and a bachelors degree in MIS. I was offered less and took it anyway, which ultimately was a good decision on my part because of the experience. However, it's now 2 years later and I've only received one review/raise and no "bonus", which was hinted at when I began this job. It would be impossible to describe it all without another lengthy post in itself, but suffice to say that I have done a hell of a lot for this company from an IT standpoint. I feel completely undervalued and unappreciated.

I also just feel I have hit a wall. As bad as I hate to say it, I am more technically knowledgeable than my boss, but I still feel as though my opinions aren't valued as they should be. I leave work frustrated nearly every day now, no matter how hard I try not to. I am constantly aggravated by decisions that are made which I know are wrong and directly affect me, but have no control over because I'm not the IT manager.

I feel as though my drive to learn has more or less left me. I am a jack of all trades and even though I value that diversity, it's putting a strain on me when it comes to focusing on a particular area and trying to learn more, because I'm constantly being pulled in 10 different directions.



Information on the potential new job:

After doing a bit of research and speaking with the HR representative and the service manager, I feel very optimistic about the position and my ability to learn and grow. They are a Cisco partner. Though they do support other vendors, they only deploy Cisco gear to their clients. They are big into certifications, pushing all employees to pursue more, paying for them, allowing for group study during work hours, etc. They also have two CCIE's on staff.

That alone peaks my interest. Simply being around and working with people that have that level of knowledge intrigues me as much as the pay increase.

They are solely a company that provides IT services, where as I currently work for a company that performs multiple services, IT being only a small portion that isn't generally focused on too much. They have stated they generally let people choose their own path, be that servers or networking and specializations branching off from each, because that yields the best results for both parties.

Obviously I have my concerns. The biggest one being that I now own a home, have a car payment, bills to pay, etc. Job security is of the utmost importance to me right now, and that is unfortunately something I cannot guarantee when taking a risk such as this. Though I believe, through my research and interviews, as well as the fact that they are looking to hire one or two other people, that I would be safe...I have no way of saying for certain.

I also have to do rotations where I would be on call after hours. I'm not going to lie, that's one of the things that turns me off the most as I greatly value my personal time, but it is most certainly a trade off I'm willing to make.

When all is said and done, even with the initial verbal offer, I would expect to actually see a pay increase in usable income of around $3-4K, which is more than the only raise I've received here within the past 2 years. It could be more than that, as I was quite generous when I figured in automobile expenses, but I would rather err on the side of caution.

I really, really feel in my gut that this new opportunity would help me grow more in an all around manner. I also feel as though this new company would be much better at realizing that growth and compensating me accordingly, which is one of the things I lack most with my current employer. But the biggest thing is - I'm just scared of leaving the comfort of my current position.

Anyway, I know this is really long already, so I'll go ahead and post it. Let me know if you have any thoughts...I'm going to call back tomorrow an accept or deny, but I also have yet to talk to my current employer regarding a counter offer of their own. So hopefully tonight, along with whatever discussion comes from this post, will help shed some light on the situation. Thanks guys.

I know the fear part. Three months ago I moved from Michigan to South Carolina. Everything was a big change for me, friends, job, family, and a place I was use to calling home. Don't let it paralyze you.

edit: Oh, and the move to look for work was well worth it.

Turgon

/usr wrote: »

More thoughts:

The more I think about it, the more I see the vehicle thing as an ultimate absolute. By that, I mean that any other job I get is going to require me to drive my own car to/from work and that's just going to have to be factored into my salary. I lucked out by falling into the position of being able to drive a company vehicle back/forth to work.

Also, it greatly concerns me that if I pass up this opportunity, that another one may not arise unless I do something drastic, like move out of state. This area isn't exactly a hotspot of IT service. Good companies that pay decent are few and far between. I would be hard pressed to find any IT job around here that is less than a 30 minute drive each way.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't expect any subsidy from an employer just because you incur costs getting to work. Here in the UK there are car allowances but these are for consultants or senior management who need to visit clients sites on a regular basis. If you take this job be prepared to have to work very hard indeed. Many of the service provider companies are struggling now as clients cut back on paid services, you will most likely find yourself in the deep end with a lot of unfamiliar stuff and this can be stressful. If you think it will fly then pursue it quickly, but if you are unsure think things over carefully. A 10K raise sounds tempting but if you are not quite ready then giving up a steady job might not be wise. But this really all depends on how the new job will work out. Some partners have got their act together, others are a minefield to work for.

impelse

Acept the new job, that company is a service provider and now many medium companies are outsourcing the IT services instead to hire a permanent employee, so you will be ok.

It's a risk but remember you can gain more exp with a service provider.

/usr

Guess I know now not to try and negotiate a salary when leaving a current job.

I asked for $2,000 more than the original offer, assuming they would come down and meet me halfway since they had expressed direct interest in desiring to hire me.

Well, they rescinded the entire offer. I just found out.

I'm actually extremely disappointed, frustrated and just...blah.

impelse

Some people do not want to negotiate, if I was you I would send them an email saying thanks for the oportunitity that they just gave you and tell them that you are open for them. Just leave the door open.

/usr

I'm going to follow up with an email tomorrow, but that's exactly what I said on the phone. I told them if they changed their mind or another opportunity became available that I was certainly open for discussing it. I let them know I wanted no harsh feelings in either direction and thanked them for their time.

It still sucks, though. It's raised lots of questions regarding jobs changes and such. I think I'll post some stuff here soon for discussion....

Turgon

/usr wrote: »

Guess I know now not to try and negotiate a salary when leaving a current job.

I asked for $2,000 more than the original offer, assuming they would come down and meet me halfway since they had expressed direct interest in desiring to hire me.

Well, they rescinded the entire offer. I just found out.

I'm actually extremely disappointed, frustrated and just...blah.

Tight asses.

Would be inclined to let it go. Honestly if a company really wants you then they find the extra money even in difficult times for strategic hires and in this economy you want to be brought in as a strategic hire not just another grunt. They may be doing you a favour by rescinding. Move on and find another one.

tpatt100

Either they had a fixed amount they could work with or they already had similar candidates they could get for the money. What happened to you is not the norm imo so don't let that get you down or influence other negotiations.

In my opinion if they could not budge for 2k this company is not doing as well as you think.

/usr

If they found another candidate and an additional $2,000 a year was enough to sway them into going with their second choice (assuming I was their first, which it seemed I was according to the conversation), then I have to wish them well, though I have a feeling they'll spend more than that additional amount getting their next-in-line to make the progress I would have made.

Looking back, I don't regret the decision I made and I feel it was their loss. That was the amount that would have made me feel comfortable enough to leave my current position and despite the fact that I "only" have my CCNA, I feel my real world experience and the time I have devoted to this profession warrant me being paid that much.

Time to hit the books and improve my skillset even further!

Thanks for all the positive comments, you guys. You helped me feel better about the situation and helped a lot with how I approached everything.

impelse

I have a question for you, I can see that you have in your signature CEH, do you use that certification in your job?

Turgon

tpatt100 wrote: »

Either they had a fixed amount they could work with or they already had similar candidates they could get for the money. What happened to you is not the norm imo so don't let that get you down or influence other negotiations.

In my opinion if they could not budge for 2k this company is not doing as well as you think.

I agree with that. If you are the 'special one' they will spring 2K to get you at least in my experience.

Turgon

/usr wrote: »

If they found another candidate and an additional $2,000 a year was enough to sway them into going with their second choice (assuming I was their first, which it seemed I was according to the conversation), then I have to wish them well, though I have a feeling they'll spend more than that additional amount getting their next-in-line to make the progress I would have made.

Looking back, I don't regret the decision I made and I feel it was their loss. That was the amount that would have made me feel comfortable enough to leave my current position and despite the fact that I "only" have my CCNA, I feel my real world experience and the time I have devoted to this profession warrant me being paid that much.

Time to hit the books and improve my skillset even further!

Thanks for all the positive comments, you guys. You helped me feel better about the situation and helped a lot with how I approached everything.

Don't worry, you will be fine. Keep your head down and scale up technically throughout 2010. As you already have a job move to another only if the whole package feels right so you can really commit for a couple of years there. The first year in a new job can be very demanding as you have to deliver on the expectations you set there.

msteinhilber

impelse wrote: »

Some people do not want to negotiate, if I was you I would send them an email saying thanks for the oportunitity that they just gave you and tell them that you are open for them. Just leave the door open.

I wouldn't bother keeping the opportunity open, I would thank them - but I would walk away and not give them further consideration even if they did come back. If the company isn't willing to negotiate over 2k and would instantly disqualify a candidate I think that speaks a lot towards how much success you would have advancing your career/salary at this company at a later date. Not that they should be throwing money away left and right, but that was a pretty dismal amount to ask for and I suspect that if you had accepted the offer there would have been more frustrations with tight budget constraints or advancement opportunities down the road.