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What's your opinion about this approach?
AlexMR
Member Posts: 275
I am trying to change careers. My first step into that was studying and finally getting the CCNA. A few months later (a year actually!) I got the CCNA Voice and Im now studying for the CCNP.
I have submitted my resume to severl places (last week) and havent been called yet, but I think I will eventually. I had a conversation with the Senior DBA of the second TELCO of the country, and he suggested that for my short term goal (start working ASAP), a different approach to training and studuying was necessary. He told me that getting "certification prepared" takes way more time than simply being prepared to work with the tecnologies and have some exposure to it...I totally agree with him, the thing here is that one really needs to master a lot of topics in a manner that is not precisely necessary in the real world. Ok. That mmight have sounded not the way I meant it...
Another way to say it: The theory we need to know and master in order to get certified is, most of the time, way more than what it is required for most jobs. I think that one came out a lot better.
Here in Dominican Republic the job market for Cisco guys is not that big,but the Cisco "p Level" pros are not that many neither. Basically, getting a CCNP is apparently a very good way to enter thee field with a good paying job (is there a place in the world where it isnt?), but it takes a lot of time to get the CCNP, and that is why he suggested that I had to start getting some classes and learning a lot of materials, specially Microsoft technologies. Notice he mentioned courses and classes, he asked me to forget about certifications for a few months and focus on learning several technologies, based on the certification programs but not getting prepared for certification. We talked about CBTNuggets, TrainSignal and TestOut, and he suggested that I should get a few of those courses, view them, study, learn the material and then put the courses in the resume.
What i like about this new approach is that I feel I will be able to learn a lot of stuff in a few months, in much less time, now that Im unemployed. I passed the CCNA Voice 2 weeks ago and I felt I was ready for the exam more than 6 weeks ago, until I took a preparation exam and failed miserably. In those 4 weeks, i didnt learn a new thing, not a new configuration (well, not truth because I downloaded a lot of documents from cisco.com and definitely went beyond IIUC material) but I basically spent 4weeks and crazy hours trying to REALLY learn a lot of terminology and theory. That time could have been spent learning the ccna wireless material... or something else...
Do you think that it would be better to go this way, and list "Trainsignal Windows server 2008 Active Directory configuration (exam 83-640) course" kind of thing in the resume instead of the certiifications? I am not asking if you think it would be better to list the training alone instead of certifications, Im asking if you think it is better to have SEVERAL of that kind of courses instead of say, one certification.
My estimates are that I could complete around 4 courses or more in the time I need to actually pass one exam. I think I could learn all 3 courses of the MCITP: SA (not to "certification level") in the time I need to actually learn the 83-640 and pass the exam.
Remember Im a career changer and that I dont have any relevant experience in ANY current technology. Would it be better to be MCTS: active directory, configuring or learning the whole MCITP: SA and listing the associated courses in the resumes?
Sorry for the huge post...
I have submitted my resume to severl places (last week) and havent been called yet, but I think I will eventually. I had a conversation with the Senior DBA of the second TELCO of the country, and he suggested that for my short term goal (start working ASAP), a different approach to training and studuying was necessary. He told me that getting "certification prepared" takes way more time than simply being prepared to work with the tecnologies and have some exposure to it...I totally agree with him, the thing here is that one really needs to master a lot of topics in a manner that is not precisely necessary in the real world. Ok. That mmight have sounded not the way I meant it...
Another way to say it: The theory we need to know and master in order to get certified is, most of the time, way more than what it is required for most jobs. I think that one came out a lot better.
Here in Dominican Republic the job market for Cisco guys is not that big,but the Cisco "p Level" pros are not that many neither. Basically, getting a CCNP is apparently a very good way to enter thee field with a good paying job (is there a place in the world where it isnt?), but it takes a lot of time to get the CCNP, and that is why he suggested that I had to start getting some classes and learning a lot of materials, specially Microsoft technologies. Notice he mentioned courses and classes, he asked me to forget about certifications for a few months and focus on learning several technologies, based on the certification programs but not getting prepared for certification. We talked about CBTNuggets, TrainSignal and TestOut, and he suggested that I should get a few of those courses, view them, study, learn the material and then put the courses in the resume.
What i like about this new approach is that I feel I will be able to learn a lot of stuff in a few months, in much less time, now that Im unemployed. I passed the CCNA Voice 2 weeks ago and I felt I was ready for the exam more than 6 weeks ago, until I took a preparation exam and failed miserably. In those 4 weeks, i didnt learn a new thing, not a new configuration (well, not truth because I downloaded a lot of documents from cisco.com and definitely went beyond IIUC material) but I basically spent 4weeks and crazy hours trying to REALLY learn a lot of terminology and theory. That time could have been spent learning the ccna wireless material... or something else...
Do you think that it would be better to go this way, and list "Trainsignal Windows server 2008 Active Directory configuration (exam 83-640) course" kind of thing in the resume instead of the certiifications? I am not asking if you think it would be better to list the training alone instead of certifications, Im asking if you think it is better to have SEVERAL of that kind of courses instead of say, one certification.
My estimates are that I could complete around 4 courses or more in the time I need to actually pass one exam. I think I could learn all 3 courses of the MCITP: SA (not to "certification level") in the time I need to actually learn the 83-640 and pass the exam.
Remember Im a career changer and that I dont have any relevant experience in ANY current technology. Would it be better to be MCTS: active directory, configuring or learning the whole MCITP: SA and listing the associated courses in the resumes?
Sorry for the huge post...
Training/Studying for....CCNP (BSCI) and some MS.
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Hyper-Me
Banned Posts: 2,059
I really dont understand doing a bunch of certification level training and then not taking the exams.
I've never felt like an exam preparation has taught me TOO much either. (can you ever learn too much?)
I would think this guy is leading you down the wrong path. I know that in the US if you went into an interview and they asked if you had certifications and you said "hell no, but i watched the videos!!" they would probably just ask you to leave. -
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Zartanasaurus
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tpatt100
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I really don't learn much from certs, they just fill in the gaps in my skill set at work because you really don't get to use half of what is in the books. Usually you come into a pre existing network or what ever. The boot camps for me are the last minute cram before the exam. The problem is a lot of people do not read the book before the boot camp and then have to rely on brain **** to pass the exam the last day of the class. -
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UnixGuy
Mod Posts: 4,566 Mod
Taking the certification will not hurt you, and usually almost everything in the cert list of topics is important, specially for an entry level cert such as CCNA.
But I can understand that taking the cert without the experience is not very helpful sometimes. If you can get a Cisco job, and start learning on the job, and then getting certified, that would be the best approach, but it's not always possible. Lot of jobs asks you to be certified first..so you need to do what's best for you.
Good luck -
OptionsAlexMR
Member Posts: 275
I really dont understand doing a bunch of certification level training and then not taking the exams.
I've never felt like an exam preparation has taught me TOO much either. (can you ever learn too much?)
I would think this guy is leading you down the wrong path. I know that in the US if you went into an interview and they asked if you had certifications and you said "hell no, but i watched the videos!!" they would probably just ask you to leave.
LOL. Well, now that Im studying MIcrosoft I understand your point, but with Cisco is a whole different game.
Maybe when Im done with the videos, labs and read the associated book I will be ready for the Microsoft exam. That is not the case with Cisco. I've felt I am absolutely ready to start configuring a router/switch and really know all things related to a certification, but then you take the exam and you dont do all that well because it is not the same to be able to do things with the IOS help, than it is to answer a question with very similar answers, with some syntax variations... this is hard for me to explain but you all understand (i hope
).
I appreciate your input because I actually forgot to mention that I was interested in the perspective from US professionals. I didnt post some details of the conversation where he mentioned that, historically, some of his best techs have not been certified. He is not certified and is an MVP. I didnt know that was possible.I really don't learn much from certs, they just fill in the gaps in my skill set at work because you really don't get to use half of what is in the books. Usually you come into a pre existing network or what ever. The boot camps for me are the last minute cram before the exam. The problem is a lot of people do not read the book before the boot camp and then have to rely on brain **** to pass the exam the last day of the class.
OK, i think you undertood what I meant and I think the DBA agrees with you because that was exactly what he said about job functiions and the certificatiions.
I want to state that he didnt say certifications were bad at all. It was the opposite, he said the that to get to "certification level" I had to invest an amount of time that I could invest in learning a different technology that could help me get the foot in the door. Also, that is something he recommended for the stage I am at, which is, as I said, in IT formation and not procifient with any current technology.Taking the certification will not hurt you, and usually almost everything in the cert list of topics is important, specially for an entry level cert such as CCNA.
But I can understand that taking the cert without the experience is not very helpful sometimes. If you can get a Cisco job, and start learning on the job, and then getting certified, that would be the best approach, but it's not always possible. Lot of jobs asks you to be certified first..so you need to do what's best for you.
Good luck
I'll see what I can do. Im trying to find something Cisco. In the mean time the only thing I can do is keep studying. Something will happen eventually.
Thanks.Training/Studying for....CCNP (BSCI) and some MS.
