To stay or not to stay...

ilcram19-2

They really know how to talk sweet thats what they get pay for, they are getting pay either way by saving money or by making this type of things, they really dont care it is easier for them to this than getting another guy simply because they will have to re-train, company use us so we need to also use them to our own advantage, imagine how much will it cost them if they keep you full time, they are getting a cake and eating it too, they can also consider you as a liability from now on they seeing that you are still looking for a personal job so they probably will use you until they can, but that is my 2 cents,
take the other job!!!:)

bwcarty

Tin_Man wrote: »

Sounds like their stringing you along knowing you won't jump ship, the meeting you had today just cements the fact that their dangling the preverbal carrot of a "full time" job in front of you. If their as happy as they say they are with you and your work, then there is no reason for them not to make a full term employee. Surely they could've moved things around $$$ wise to accommodate this transition, The fact they haven't goes to show that they won't.. You can almost bet that @ the end of those 6 months nothing will have changed.

They may also be skirting IRS rules that differentiate between employees and independent contractors. Offering paid vacation days is a red flag towards what should amount to employee status.

Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

Paul Boz

Why are you guys saying he made the wrong choice? He clearly has a good working relationship with the organization which he is working for right now and has the added benefit of paid vacation. In addition, he has been approached by upper management about quality performance and potential offers in the future. He's getting a stable pay check and he knows he can function in the job role.

On the other hand, he could go to a new place making the same money, have to re-learn an entire new corporate culture, probably not get the vacation, and in six months be back at square one. At least in his current position he has the option to continue on working on what he's been working on with the possibility of being brought on. Even if he stays at his current job for six months and they term his contract it won't be any different than going to a new place and being termed after six months anyway.

I sometimes think that a majority of the people on TE are very distrustful of management. I can understand that, but to say the guy made the wrong choice and that he's "being strung along" is foolish. If he was being strung along they would just term his contract, never mind not offer him any benefits. In this economy something is better than nothing and relative stability (knowing the environment, employees, job functions, etc) is worth its weight in gold.

tpatt100

Paul Boz wrote: »

Why are you guys saying he made the wrong choice? He clearly has a good working relationship with the organization which he is working for right now and has the added benefit of paid vacation. In addition, he has been approached by upper management about quality performance and potential offers in the future. He's getting a stable pay check and he knows he can function in the job role.

On the other hand, he could go to a new place making the same money, have to re-learn an entire new corporate culture, probably not get the vacation, and in six months be back at square one. At least in his current position he has the option to continue on working on what he's been working on with the possibility of being brought on. Even if he stays at his current job for six months and they term his contract it won't be any different than going to a new place and being termed after six months anyway.

I sometimes think that a majority of the people on TE are very distrustful of management. I can understand that, but to say the guy made the wrong choice and that he's "being strung along" is foolish. If he was being strung along they would just term his contract, never mind not offer him any benefits. In this economy something is better than nothing and relative stability (knowing the environment, employees, job functions, etc) is worth its weight in gold.

Did you read his previous topic? I even quoted it in one of my posts.

1. He has approached his current employer SEVERAL times now asking about his status.

2. He was told several times "sorry we can't"

3. He was told several times "maybe next time".

4. He has told them he is looking for work at other places.

5. He had to go back yet again to ask and NOW they are offering paid vacations?

Same pay different places but most importantly different people is the key. He may be afforded more opportunities at a new place. He was going on an on about how unhappy he was at his current employment so they turned him down after numerous attempts to ask for what he wants only reinforces his already beat down self confidence. Turning down something new only completely eliminates any possibility of him finding out if he might like it better there, he only recently said he is happier where he is now, but earlier said he was not happy.

Paul Boz

tpatt100 wrote: »

Same pay different places but most importantly different people is the key. He may be afforded more opportunities at a new place. He was going on an on about how unhappy he was at his current employment so they turned him down after numerous attempts to ask for what he wants only reinforces his already beat down self confidence. Turning down something new only completely eliminates any possibility of him finding out if he might like it better there, he only recently said he is happier where he is now, but earlier said he was not happy.

You have to do a risk analysis to make the judgment call regarding whether its a good move or not. In this economy I would take a stable check and a familiar environment over a new place that may crash and burn and give me the same boot after six months. If this was circa 2000 when jobs were being given out like candy out of a pedophile's van I would be preaching to go to a new place. That is not the economy we live in now. He recently said that he's happier at his current place so what's the problem?

blargoe

Everyone's short term and long term goals are different. He probably made the choice that fit him best.

If his goal is to simply maintain stable employment in the current economic climate, he probably made the right choice.

I would have leaned toward making a change if the goal was to take a step toward moving up the ladder, since the current job seems to be a dead end in that regard.

tpatt100

blargoe wrote: »

Everyone's short term and long term goals are different. He probably made the choice that fit him best.

If his goal is to simply maintain stable employment in the current economic climate, he probably made the right choice.

I would have leaned toward making a change if the goal was to take a step toward moving up the ladder, since the current job seems to be a dead end in that regard.

that was my point, sometimes you gotta take a chance to move ahead if your already stuck in a rut.

Paul Boz

You guys are saying that after only six months he's "stuck in a rut?" I'd hate to know how long you guys stick to YOUR jobs. Hell even if after this six months is up and he has to look again he'll have one year of experience at his current employer, the pay checks to match, and plenty of experience.

veritas_libertas

Paul Boz wrote: »

You guys are saying that after only six months he's "stuck in a rut?" I'd hate to know how long you guys stick to YOUR jobs. Hell even if after this six months is up and he has to look again he'll have one year of experience at his current employer, the pay checks to match, and plenty of experience.

Umm, you are incorrect. He was there over a year according to his first post. I agree with your point though.

ULWiz

Paul Boz wrote: »

Why are you guys saying he made the wrong choice? He clearly has a good working relationship with the organization which he is working for right now and has the added benefit of paid vacation. In addition, he has been approached by upper management about quality performance and potential offers in the future. He's getting a stable pay check and he knows he can function in the job role.

On the other hand, he could go to a new place making the same money, have to re-learn an entire new corporate culture, probably not get the vacation, and in six months be back at square one. At least in his current position he has the option to continue on working on what he's been working on with the possibility of being brought on. Even if he stays at his current job for six months and they term his contract it won't be any different than going to a new place and being termed after six months anyway.

I sometimes think that a majority of the people on TE are very distrustful of management. I can understand that, but to say the guy made the wrong choice and that he's "being strung along" is foolish. If he was being strung along they would just term his contract, never mind not offer him any benefits. In this economy something is better than nothing and relative stability (knowing the environment, employees, job functions, etc) is worth its weight in gold.

Have to agree here. I would not want to take a new job and find out a month or so later that it was not what i expected and even possibly get canned. Would rather be at the current place and put in another solid 6 months of work.


And yes people sometimes there is not room in a budget to hire another person. Its not just a string along.

zen master

indyodie wrote: »

Down side of staying is that they now know you are looking for a position elsewhere. They could just as easily put up a job listing now, start interviewing and then let you go due to "changes in the company".

I have held (and currently hold) many contract positions over the years and most will **** you at the first sign of trouble. I would start paying attention for new hires and keep your eye out for the "changes".

What if you go back to the company that made you an offer and tell them about the counter offer, except exaggerate the offer. Best case, you wind up with more money and a better package at the new place. Worst case, you keep your job where they know you are considering leaving.

Precisely. Keep him around until they find a suitable replacement, then give him the boot.

tpatt100

Paul Boz wrote: »

You guys are saying that after only six months he's "stuck in a rut?" I'd hate to know how long you guys stick to YOUR jobs. Hell even if after this six months is up and he has to look again he'll have one year of experience at his current employer, the pay checks to match, and plenty of experience.

I've been a temp for this company that I work for since last September. They have extended my contract several times and say that they're happy with my performance. My current contract ends in about a month and a half. I've approached my supervisor about them keeping me permanently and he said he'd try to get me in but he can't promise anything. That was 2 months ago. Since then from time to time he tells me that he's trying to make a case for me with his managers but it's still in the air.

The reason why I'm posting this is that I'm getting really depressed. I like my job but I really can't be a temp anymore. I have no breaks and I'm just getting so stressed out about it. Every week seems to be getting worse and worse.

I talked to one of my friends about this and he suggested that I speak to my supervisor and tell him that I'd like to stay with a company but not as a temp. If they can't hire me until the time my current contract expires then I'll leave and start looking for a permanent position elsewhere.

He's already been extended SEVERAL times, if his contracts are six months I am assuming he has been there a year and a half easy.

I have seen this game done over and over to other people at my past jobs. Pretty much all jobs I have seen are "contract" or temp to hire. He is getting renewed contracts with probably no intention of ever getting hired.

petedude

if the OP has the economy on the radar, then staying put for a little bit longer might not be a bad idea. It's an even better idea if there's additional progress towards certs and/or degrees that would make the next leap even easier after the economy picks up.

BradleyHU

hit ur current employer with the:

loss4words

So this week my boss asked me for the number of my employment agency. Apparently he called them and asked for another temp who will start in January. I wonder if I made a mistake ....I'm thinking about starting to apply for jobs again.

miller811

loss4words wrote: »

So this week my boss asked me for the number of my employment agency. Apparently he called them and asked for another temp who will start in January. I wonder if I made a mistake ....I'm thinking about starting to apply for jobs again.

Naa.... he wants to hire you full time and wanted to know what the buyout clause was....

zen master

miller811, is that some kind of joke? He distinctly said his boss called to ask for another temp who is going to start in January. We told him from the beginning that what is happening now was a distinct possibility, yet some of you guys still continued to urge him to stick around. Hopefully what appears to be happening, isn't happening, but, from the sounds of it, you better start looking loss4words.

loss4words

Thanks zen master. I guess I will.

This got me so depressed. My boss is such a good guy and we get along so well but I guess none of that matters. I guess I just thought that since they've been extending my stay with them for so long they must like me and thinking about keeping me around in the long run. I don't know anymore. Thanks for all the help, everyone.

Turgon

zen master wrote: »

miller811, is that some kind of joke? He distinctly said his boss called to ask for another temp who is going to start in January. We told him from the beginning that what is happening now was a distinct possibility, yet some of you guys still continued to urge him to stick around. Hopefully what appears to be happening, isn't happening, but, from the sounds of it, you better start looking loss4words.

Nobody has a crystal ball. At the end of the day there are pros and cons for staying or going.

Turgon

loss4words wrote: »

Thanks zen master. I guess I will.

This got me so depressed. My boss is such a good guy and we get along so well but I guess none of that matters. I guess I just thought that since they've been extending my stay with them for so long they must like me and thinking about keeping me around in the long run. I don't know anymore. Thanks for all the help, everyone.

Have you discussed your concerns with the boss? Who is to say the January hire is a replacement for you?

loss4words

Turgon wrote: »

Have you discussed your concerns with the boss? Who is to say the January hire is a replacement for you?

Hi Turgon,

I haven't. He actually came up to me and asked for the agency's number and told me that they're hiring another temp.

I have bothered him so much with my issues, I'm afraid his patience with me might run out if I approach him about my job again. All I know is that he will leaving soon for 3-6 months to work on another project and one of our lead techs who already has a managerial role within the company will temporarily assume his current position.

Turgon

Well then you don't know either way if this a replacement for you or just an extra hire. If you are concerned about it you need to ask him to level with you.

zen master

There's no room in the budget to bring him on as permanent staff, yet they can afford to hire another temp? I.T guys need to wake up and realise that the world doesn't play nice, and if you don't start at least thinking (not acting) like upper level management, you'll be taken for a ride. At the end of the day, in most cases, all you represent to them is OPEX, a number. It is business, and you are exchanging labour for payment. I suggest that other IT professionals start treating their jobs in this way, and leave the nice guy attitude and expectations out of the workplace. Sometimes, you'll be lucky and meet someone in upper level management that is genuinely nice, and takes an interest in the wellbeing of his employees, but DO NOT go into a job EXPECTING this to be the case, because in most cases, you will be very disappointed. Furthermore, Turgon, expecting honesty from upper level management in most companies is downright foolhardy.

Turgon

zen master wrote: »

There's no room in the budget to bring him on as permanent staff, yet they can afford to hire another temp? I.T guys need to wake up and realise that the world doesn't play nice, and if you don't start at least thinking (not acting) like upper level management, you'll be taken for a ride. At the end of the day, in most cases, all you represent to them is OPEX, a number. It is business, and you are exchanging labour for payment. I suggest that other IT professionals start treating their jobs in this way, and leave the nice guy attitude and expectations out of the workplace. Sometimes, you'll be lucky and meet someone in upper level management that is genuinely nice, and takes an interest in the wellbeing of his employees, but DO NOT go into a job EXPECTING this to be the case, because in most cases, you will be very disappointed. Furthermore, Turgon, expecting honesty from upper level management in most companies is downright foolhardy.

Please dont lecture me on the hazards of employment or the inner workings of senior management. I have spent more time around people at that level than you have had hot dinners. At the same time not every company or senior manager is a crook. Lots of people work hard for companies and generally prosper, and for many of them leaving the nice guy attitude behind is the last thing they should do if they want to stay in gainful employment.

It is a business decision which is why I think the OP should ask his manager about the situation. We do not understand the dynamic in this particular case, Im sure the OP is best placed to gauge for himself how the land actually lies there. Lots of companies are going contract to hire these days and have been for a long time inclined to use more contract staff as opposed to taking people on permanent.

miller811

zen master wrote: »

miller811, is that some kind of joke? He distinctly said his boss called to ask for another temp who is going to start in January. We told him from the beginning that what is happening now was a distinct possibility, yet some of you guys still continued to urge him to stick around. Hopefully what appears to be happening, isn't happening, but, from the sounds of it, you better start looking loss4words.

Yes it was:).... you are very perceptive.

Reread the posts, I suggested he leave the position when he had another offer on the table.

zen master

miller811 wrote: »

Yes it was:).... you are very perceptive.

Reread the posts, I suggested he leave the position when he had another offer on the table.

Yeh, I actually realized that a little while after I made the post, but by then I was busy focusing on Turgon.

Turgon, I accept your point. When I said what I did about the nice guy attitude, I was referring to the expectation that people will be honest and upfront with you. Perhaps a better choice of words would have been "naive".

Zartanasaurus

Sounds like they are hiring an additional guy. Although it's weird that your boss didn't know the number or didn't ask HR.

loss4words

I guess it was just easier to come to me and ask for it than to search for the number wherever he keeps it.

I keep telling myself that I'm getting so stressed out for nothing. I'm pretty sure that I do have at least another 6+ months of being employed so I don't have to worry about being without a job and looking for work for now. This time would allow me to study for certifications and to learn new things which hopefully will open up more opportunities for me if it doesn't work out in the end. I also found onforce.com recently I think through these forums and will try to get more experience doing some work on the side. I'll keep you guys posted, and thank you so much for everyone's help.

Hyper-Me

I wish all IT pros would rise up and refuse contratual "temp" jobs.

I know thats not possible nor feasible, but it would help out so much if employers didnt know they had this magical fire/layoff ticket known as the TEMP job.

Turgon

zen master wrote: »

Yeh, I actually realized that a little while after I made the post, but by then I was busy focusing on Turgon.

Turgon, I accept your point. When I said what I did about the nice guy attitude, I was referring to the expectation that people will be honest and upfront with you. Perhaps a better choice of words would have been "naive".

Well I certainly take your point that you have to look after yourself which is one of the reasons I run my own company. This is why I think the OP should ask the boss for clarification on the matter even though of course he may be economical with the truth. But assessing for yourself where the truth actually lies is one of lifes personal challenges Im afraid. Let's just hope that this is an extra hire from the same contracting firm. But if it isn't this is simply a sign of the times, which is why I have advocated for a number of years that anyone in the IT workforce, permanent, contract or unemployed keeps a constant eye out not only for new opportunities within and without organisations but also general trends. At the same time everyone should regulate their spending. I would not be at all surprised to see more cuts and layoffs next year and several TE members out of work. When that happens some will get back into work fairly quickly and some will not, although in the case of skilled professionals that can sometimes be down to the low rates being offered as opposed to abject lack of work and they decide to ride it out until a good job transpires. Either way you have bills to pay. Any money that can be saved between now and then will help out should the axe fall so that 2011 isn't spent working to pay off debts accrued during the downturn. It might be time to rethink that PC upgrade or expensive computer game, and 100 other purchases you really dont need.