Payrises

cjthedj45

Hi,

I was hoping to get some opinions on what people think about pay rises in the current climate and if it would be possible to negotiate a better pay rise.

I have just been given a pay rise of £600 last year I got £900. The big difference between this year and last year is that I have qualified as an MCSA and CCNA??? My role has changed considerably from when I was hired as a desktop engineer. I now do a combination of network and desktop 3rd line support. So I cannot understand why I have received less of a pay rise this year. In my review with my boss he said that he would be trying to get me one of the biggest pay rises. He has continually given me good feedback and praised me for my study efforts. I was really expecting to get a much bigger pay rise because I’m now in a position where I do most of the BAU network tasks and because of the excellent review my boss gave me. Also the company can benefit because I can be charged out at the network engineer rate. The senior network engineer used to come to site every Friday which they have had to pay his petrol costs and sometimes hotel costs whereas now he does not need to come as often as I can do the changes myself. As I do the network BAU he is freed up as a resource to concentrate on project/consultancy work which makes the company more money So they save money and make money from me. I think I'm going to raise these points with him again to see if I can negotiate a better pay rise. I will feel de-motivated though if they cannot give me a better pay rise. Do you think I have a case here? My boss is likely to say that I should appreciate that I have a job in these difficult times etc. He will also comment on the fact that I have received a full 10% bonus this year and he has offered to put me on another training course. I'm trying to weigh it up whether I'm being unreasonable.

I started the job on an a base salary of £23,000 1st pay rise went to £23,800 and my most recent took me to £23,400 with my on call and 10% bonus this equates to about £32,000. It’s as if I'm getting inflationary pay rises as opposed to a pay rise due to the fact I’m more skilled qualified and doing a different role to when I was first hired.
Please let me know your thoughts

Thanks for your time

ColbyG

The economy sucks, you're lucky you got anything.

cjthedj45

ColbyNA wrote: »

The economy sucks, you're lucky you got anything.

Even though my company has had a very good year and met its financial targets in the first quater??

ColbyG

cjthedj45 wrote: »

Even though my company has had a very good year and met its financial targets in the first quater??

What industry do you work in? I may have missed it in that giant paragraph.

networker050184

IMHO you are being unreasonable. With the bonus, training AND a raise you already have gotten more than most people will be getting this year. You said that your boss was going to try to get you one of the highest pay raises, do you know how your raise stacks up to others? You may already be getting above and beyond others.

In the end if you are not happy with the raise ask for more or move on to bigger and better things.

dynamik

networker050184 wrote: »

You said that your boss was going to try to get you one of the highest pay raises, do you know how your raise stacks up to others? You may already be getting above and beyond others.

I thought the exact same thing when I read that part.

cjthedj45

networker050184 wrote: »

You said that your boss was going to try to get you one of the highest pay raises, do you know how your raise stacks up to others? You may already be getting above and beyond others.

In the end if you are not happy with the raise ask for more or move on to bigger and better things.

Nope I do not know how my raise stacks up to others thats exactly why I'm asking. I agree though I could ask for more or move on. I would probably get the pay rise I would like by moving on but then I would have to start over. I do feel some loyaltly though as they have been good with training and developing me.

laidbackfreak

cj sounds like you have a good relationship with your boss and taking into account of your new certs I dont think it would hurt to have a chat with him first. I know in previous depressions I've received similar amounts and been disappointed at the time, but my boss has pulled me aside and explained why it was low (and normally explained I've received the highest amount)

who paid for the training? either way it may be possible to negotiate on further training at there expense.

Above all keep your head before you do anything as the market is tough at the moment.

Turgon

cjthedj45 wrote: »

Hi,

I was hoping to get some opinions on what people think about pay rises in the current climate and if it would be possible to negotiate a better pay rise.

I have just been given a pay rise of £600 last year I got £900. The big difference between this year and last year is that I have qualified as an MCSA and CCNA??? My role has changed considerably from when I was hired as a desktop engineer. I now do a combination of network and desktop 3rd line support. So I cannot understand why I have received less of a pay rise this year. In my review with my boss he said that he would be trying to get me one of the biggest pay rises. He has continually given me good feedback and praised me for my study efforts. I was really expecting to get a much bigger pay rise because I’m now in a position where I do most of the BAU network tasks and because of the excellent review my boss gave me. Also the company can benefit because I can be charged out at the network engineer rate. The senior network engineer used to come to site every Friday which they have had to pay his petrol costs and sometimes hotel costs whereas now he does not need to come as often as I can do the changes myself. As I do the network BAU he is freed up as a resource to concentrate on project/consultancy work which makes the company more money So they save money and make money from me. I think I'm going to raise these points with him again to see if I can negotiate a better pay rise. I will feel de-motivated though if they cannot give me a better pay rise. Do you think I have a case here? My boss is likely to say that I should appreciate that I have a job in these difficult times etc. He will also comment on the fact that I have received a full 10% bonus this year and he has offered to put me on another training course. I'm trying to weigh it up whether I'm being unreasonable.

I started the job on an a base salary of £23,000 1st pay rise went to £23,800 and my most recent took me to £23,400 with my on call and 10% bonus this equates to about £32,000. It’s as if I'm getting inflationary pay rises as opposed to a pay rise due to the fact I’m more skilled qualified and doing a different role to when I was first hired.
Please let me know your thoughts

Thanks for your time

Difficult economy at present. The main thing is you are progressing steadily within this organisation and still getting rises. Lots of people pass exams and take on more responsibilities within companies and over time see decreasing pay rises. Rather than hassle your boss with grumbles about the rise, and he is right times are difficult, I would be more inclined to have a chat with him to see what you need to accomplish over the next 12 months to really give your payrise prospects a boost. You need to move into new directions within the company to accomplish that. Payrises are not always determined on the basis that you didn't do an important job or what have you. You are good at it and useful. It may be that in terms of perceived value to the business you have peaked. You may be seen as purely *operational* and generally the rates for that are lower than other areas within a business. It really all depends on how big a slice of the pie chart your role commands from the business in terms of salary leverage. If you want a bigger slice have a chat with your boss to see what that would entail over the next 12 months.

eMeS

My thoughts will be slightly different here.

Basically, my thought is that we are all the captains of our own ship. How much you make is important to some, and less important to others.

My personal focus throughout my career has always been to get as much money as quickly as possible. I really wouldn't care what someone else got as a raise, nor how my raise compares to what others make, or what the broad economy was doing. Eat hearty, for tomorrow we dine in hell says me.

Harsh I know, but I knew early on that I wasn't in this business to save the world. If you can achieve results you will get what you want out of your career.

Whatever reason you entered this field (I mean the royal "You"), grow a pair and let that reason guide your actions. If your goal is to fit in well in that organization and stay there the rest of your life then an ends justifies the means approach to increasing your salary might not be right for you. If your primary goal is to increase your salary then act like it. Go get what you want.

To the OP, I really don't know if you have a case here. Really, you're the only one that knows that. Be prepared to jump to a new job if it doesn't work out in your favor.

Whatever your approach is, nothing supersedes what you've been hired to do, which is to achieve results for your employer.

MS

Turgon

Yes I agree with a lot of that. Essentially you may be meeting the results expected of you just fine *but* that's all they are willing to pay for you in that capacity. If you want more you will either have to find out what you have to do to earn more, and that means talking to the gaffer, and then delievring it, or you will have to look elsewhere.

eMeS

Turgon wrote: »

Yes I agree with a lot of that. Essentially you may be meeting the results expected of you just fine *but* that's all they are willing to pay for you in that capacity. If you want more you will either have to find out what you have to do to earn more, and that means talking to the gaffer, and then delievring it, or you will have to look elsewhere.

Exactly...we all have do that, or at least be willing to do that if we really want to continue to increase incomes over our careers. What one person will pay for you might be much more than what you're currently taking. The only way to find out to 1) to ask and 2) to start turning over stones.

MS

MeanDrunkR2D2

Hmmm... You should talk to your boss and find out why you raise was less than last year even though in the past year you got two certifications. Don't go in with demands that are unreasonable and find out why it was less than last year.

Also, what does one in your current position make in your area? It may not be a bad idea to put some feelers out and see if any company finds interest in you. Talk to a head hunter and explain to them your current position (duties) and what kind of pay you should be expecting. It's possible that there may be opportunities out there.

However, I wouldn't rock any boats right now and you may be better served to ride out this economy at the lower pay you are getting now and build up that experience that they'll have to pay to keep you next year.

Another year of experience in this new role will really help you out especially if the economy can rebound strongly in the next year.

blargoe

At my company our directors are given a set amount that they are able to spread out across the department for the annual increase, the amount being at their discretion. Last year, it was zero percent. Previous year, the "average" was 2% and I got 3% (I was above average). Year before, average was 3.5% and I met that.

Point is, your net amount might not be a reflection of your work as much as it is relative to the rest of your group and what they got. Also, the point about the company doing well and meeting its goals generally isn't reflected in merit raises. That is usually how bonuses are calculated... at least in the companies I've worked for... and I have to say 10% for someone who is desktop support and moving into MCSA level work is an pretty good bonus.

HeroPsycho

Just to reiterate the above, raises are often as much a political decision as it is economical or based on merit.

My employer has said the same things that they've remained profitable, yada yada yada, every year I've been there. While I've gotten nothing more than cost of living increases in salary if any, total compensation aside from bonuses related to billable hours has gone down since I've been there due to elmination of 401k matching and cuts to health insurance benefits, while I've been promoted to a "Senior Systems Engineer", gained MCSE 2003: Messaging, MCSE 2000: Security, both my MCITP certs, and VCP. They did this for a variety of reasons, one of which is they bet I couldn't find a job that pays better than they do where I live, and so far they've been right.

The proper response if you don't like it is find a better job if you've discussed this with them respectfully and in a proper manner.