Venting!

Riskbling

Hi all,

To be honest, I don't know exactly where I'm going to end up in the IT world, or exactly what I want to do. Right now, I am currently AD USAF working Help Desk, I cannot stress enough how much this decreases my interest in the IT field. Maybe, it's just being the first line of support that sucks. Every computer user comes to us for every little problem, "On this web page, one of their links do not work, it says page cannot be displayed?".. I mean, being nice about these issues tend to become frustrating, but I don't own every damn web page, or know how to fix every software issue, because some programmer failed.

My fellow co-workers don't pull their weight, nor have any interest when it comes to computers. This makes things difficult, but I try not to factor this into the equation.

Anyways, when you move up the ladder, do you move away from this BS and focus more on a specialized skill that your competent in, versus someone expecting you to mange a Red Hat server, when your a network engineer?

I'm almost 20 and right now my focus is completing as much school as I can while the military pays for it. For certs, I don't know exactly what I want to do yet. It goes back and forth between the CCNA path and CISSP.

Would you say it's best to specialize early on, or get a broad knowledge base first? I think about going for some MS certs, but I don't think my path is going to go down the server admin side of the house, but at the same time, I think that is good knowledge to help understand other technologies. If my goal was to get the CISSP, do you think taking the time to get my CCNA and MCITP:EA would be worth the trouble?

Sorry, for the long post!

Essendon

You know what the best part of your job is? That you have it.

There are so many unemployed skilled and experienced techs that dont have a job because the global economy sucks, though it's getting better. Give that a thought and it might make you feel better.

I was the exact same way you are now. I had a Master in Telecomm Engineering, a CCNA and an A+ when I was job-hunting. NO one was willing to take me on since I didnt have any experience. Eventually I found work with an ISP, terrible job, worse than yours and I couldnt take it for longer than 3 months. But that was over 4 years ago and the economy was way better back then. I did the graveyard shift aka the night shift, from midnight to 9am. From midnight to 7am, I did tech support calls and from 7 to 9 I took inbound sales and customer service calls. It was killing me, I had a CCNA and a freaking Bachelor's and an even more freaking Master's of Engineering and no one would freaking employ me. After 3 months, a friend referred me at a major drug company and that's when I was able to get off the phone and do some desktop support stuff.

So dig in there, battle it out. If you just cant take it any more, start flooding the job sites, monster, dice, craigslist and whatever else you have there in the US. As you gain experience and get the certs, you will eventually get there. You will be a Network Engineer or a Domain Architect or an Infrastructure Designer, you will get there, but you got to put in the proverbial hard yards.

As for certs, if you want to go the CISSP way, I dont think there is much point doing the MCITP, since that's just Microsoft. Get the CCNA, then perhaps the CCNA: Security. See if you like it. You might want to go the CCSP way. Keep in mind that the CISSP requires 4 years, I think it is, of documented security experience. You can still take the CISSP exam, but you wont be a CISSP till you have the experience.

Since your in the early stages of your career, a broader skillset will help you get into a better position. Get yourself a CCNA and an MCDST or even an MCP/MCTS. That should get you somewhere. The mantra is ( Certs + Experience + Networking ) * Luck = Better Job.

Turgon

Essendon wrote: »

You know what the best part of your job is? That you have it.

There are so many unemployed skilled and experienced techs that dont have a job because the global economy sucks, though it's getting better. Give that a thought and it might make you feel better.

I was the exact same way you are now. I had a Master in Telecomm Engineering, a CCNA and an A+ when I was job-hunting. NO one was willing to take me on since I didnt have any experience. Eventually I found work with an ISP, terrible job, worse than yours and I couldnt take it for longer than 3 months. But that was over 4 years ago and the economy was way better back then. I did the graveyard shift aka the night shift, from midnight to 9am. From midnight to 7am, I did tech support calls and from 7 to 9 I took inbound sales and customer service calls. It was killing me, I had a CCNA and a freaking Bachelor's and an even more freaking Master's of Engineering and no one would freaking employ me. After 3 months, a friend referred me at a major drug company and that's when I was able to get off the phone and do some desktop support stuff.

So dig in there, battle it out. If you just cant take it any more, start flooding the job sites, monster, dice, craigslist and whatever else you have there in the US. As you gain experience and get the certs, you will eventually get there. You will be a Network Engineer or a Domain Architect or an Infrastructure Designer, you will get there, but you got to put in the proverbial hard yards.

As for certs, if you want to go the CISSP way, I dont think there is much point doing the MCITP, since that's just Microsoft. Get the CCNA, then perhaps the CCNA: Security. See if you like it. You might want to go the CCSP way. Keep in mind that the CISSP requires 4 years, I think it is, of documented security experience. You can still take the CISSP exam, but you wont be a CISSP till you have the experience.

Since your in the early stages of your career, a broader skillset will help you get into a better position. Get yourself a CCNA and an MCDST or even an MCP/MCTS. That should get you somewhere. The mantra is ( Certs + Experience + Networking ) * Luck = Better Job.

The same thing happened to me back in the mid nineties. I had a Masters degree in IT and it was almost two years before I landed a proper fulltime IT job. Granted I lived in the UK equivalent of Iowa so far as good IT jobs were concerned. Prior to that I did anything I could get to make a wage. The problem was lack of experience. It's not a new thing.

tpatt100

I would just focus on getting experience first. Everyone has to start somewhere, nursing you start out emptying bed pans, doctors start out working long hours interning doing the menial tasks, its all the same you lack experience so you pay your dues.

And I mentioned this numerous times, the CISSP is a broad test, if you skip the server side of the house your going to be a horrible security analyst. My broad background has helped me in all my security work, but not broad enough because right now I am struggling with Linux.

RobertKaucher

Riskbling wrote: »

Would you say it's best to specialize early on, or get a broad knowledge base first? I think about going for some MS certs, but I don't think my path is going to go down the server admin side of the house, but at the same time, I think that is good knowledge to help understand other technologies. If my goal was to get the CISSP, do you think taking the time to get my CCNA and MCITP:EA would be worth the trouble?

Sorry, for the long post!

In the IT world today you need to have a broad range of experience. I have said this so many times on this forum: gone are the days of the "IT Guy" who could say things like "I'm a Linux guy, I don't do Microsoft." Now there are still people out there working in highly specialized environments, but those are becoming rarer and rarer.

So basically I am just summarizing what the others have said: do what you have to do to get a broad range of experience. This will lay the foundation for not only your career but your technical ability. I know a few techs who are very good at fixing certain things because they have seen them so many times before. But when these same techs are confronted with something new, they don't even know where to start. Don't be this way. Once you have a strong understanding of the fundamentals of the field you choose (and "IT" is not really a field any more than "health care" is a field) e.g. Networking, Network Administration, etc only then begin to seriously specialize. Until then work hard on mastering the fundamentals.

And when your boss comes to you and says "I need you to make X work." And X is some technology you have never used before, be glad that you have the chance, not only expand your knowledge, but to show your boss that you are an intelligent, flexible individual who can get the job done no matter what it is.

HeroPsycho

RobertKaucher wrote: »

In the IT world today you need to have a broad range of experience. I have said this so many times on this forum: gone are the days of the "IT Guy" who could say things like "I'm a Linux guy, I don't do Microsoft." Now there are still people out there working in highly specialized environments, but those are becoming rarer and rarer.

Depends on what job you want. I don't touch Linux, I'm a Microsoft guy. I'm in high demand. For admin level stuff, it can help to have different hats. If you want to have higher end jobs as a Senior Admin or Engineer, it pays to not be as spread wide, but be miles deep in the stuff you know. What is hurting my career is not a lack of knowledge in linux or Cisco. It's a lack in depth knowledge in either hotter areas than AD/Exchange, or in complimenting technologies to AD/Exchange, such as MIIS, SCOM, storage, etc.

This recession has increased the demand for broad knowledge without as much depth as businesses aren't deploying new IT infrastructure, but that typically is not the case in the IT field as you climb higher. And cloud movements will favor those who can support, manage, implement, and design solutions at far higher scales, which points to more value to specialists, not generalists.

RobertKaucher

HeroPsycho wrote: »

Depends on what job you want. I don't touch Linux, I'm a Microsoft guy. I'm in high demand. For admin level stuff, it can help to have different hats. If you want to have higher end jobs as a Senior Admin or Engineer, it pays to not be as spread wide, but be miles deep in the stuff you know. What is hurting my career is not a lack of knowledge in linux or Cisco. It's a lack in depth knowledge in either hotter areas than AD/Exchange, or in complimenting technologies to AD/Exchange, such as MIIS, SCOM, storage, etc.

This recession has increased the demand for broad knowledge without as much depth as businesses aren't deploying new IT infrastructure, but that typically is not the case in the IT field as you climb higher. And cloud movements will favor those who can support, manage, implement, and design solutions at far higher scales, which points to more value to specialists, not generalists.

Yes, but you are not a company's "IT Guy" you're an Exchange consultant, right? I don't think consultants count in the point I was making. But even your situation is illustrative of th epoint. You work in a specialized role, but it is not so specialized that you can progress by having more and more specialized knowledge of a single domain (Exchange), you need to have more specialized knowledge accross several domains.

But you do bring up an important component of my point. I was talking about internal IT for SMBs. In larger enterprise environments this really may not be applicable due to their structure and seperation of duties. But maybe this is just my work experience. I'm used to places where one, two, or three guys might run it all.

Daniel333

It never goes away man. It's just another caliber of client. The guy one cubical over from me makes $100k+ a year and has been doing this since mid-90's.... guess what. He spent most of the day being chewed out by a user because of spell check not working right on a terminal server in Word.

So it never stops. There will always be customer service in IT.

crrussell3

Turgon wrote: »

The same thing happened to me back in the mid nineties. I had a Masters degree in IT and it was almost two years before I landed a proper fulltime IT job. Granted I lived in the UK equivalent of Iowa so far as good IT jobs were concerned. Prior to that I did anything I could get to make a wage. The problem was lack of experience. It's not a new thing.

And whats wrong with Iowa

brad-

there are people at age 40 that wish the had the frustrations you have.

At 20, i honestly dont know how you could be so jaded about stupid users.

I think maybe the drudgery of the job has just gotten to you...you need a fresh perspective - fortunately for you, you wont be laid off to get that point of view. Forget your co-workers if they suck and focus on you. Accept that there are rock dumb people out there that need help, and be proud to be the guy that can do anything for them. Keep your head down, work hard, better yourself, develop good habits...become a good product an employer would jump at to hire.

Riskbling

brad- wrote: »

there are people at age 40 that wish the had the frustrations you have.

At 20, i honestly dont know how you could be so jaded about stupid users.

I think maybe the drudgery of the job has just gotten to you...you need a fresh perspective - fortunately for you, you wont be laid off to get that point of view. Forget your co-workers if they suck and focus on you. Accept that there are rock dumb people out there that need help, and be proud to be the guy that can do anything for them. Keep your head down, work hard, better yourself, develop good habits...become a good product an employer would jump at to hire.

Heh, it's not that they are dumb as a rock, just that they choose not to work. Since the military does not interview, nor fire people on a regular basis, you can only hope you get work with good apples.


Anyways, aside from that, I am getting mixed signals on whether or not to specialize or not. You mentioned the cloud, I think that is going pretty big once they start making standards on it. I just did a 15 page paper on it and was thinking about going into a field that benefits from the cloud. I see less of a demand for network engineers and server admins if everyone started to consolidate to the cloud, but do see security as a rising concern, hence security interest.

Anyways, thank all you guys for your long informative post, giving me a lot to think about

Turgon

crrussell3 wrote: »

And whats wrong with Iowa

hehehehe..nothing I'm sure!