Worried about Cisco's direction!

jovan88

I know its still all speculation until at least another month, but it anyone else worried about the direction Cisco is going with the CCNP? Cisco is trying to make the certs more specialized, however the industry is requiring that the technicians know a bit of everything.

Word on the street is they could be taking out topics from the ISCW and ONT. However, being a CCNP, interviewers are going to assume you know these things (VPN, QoS, DSL etc).

Just like I'm sure many CCNAs (including myself) have a hard time with ISDN since they removed it. My boss wasn't impressed when I told him I have very little knowledge about ISDN technology and I'm a CCNA.

Well, it looks like more and more people who are following the CCNP path are just going to have to learn the material on their own. I guess if you work in this industry you should be doing that anyway instead of Cisco holding your hand through everything.

So it looks like we just have to wait until the official announcement comes - but there's my rant!

ColbyG

I don't think you're the only one worried about this.

billscott92787

Well, the key is to get the CCNP before you change it then or take more than one track. It makes sense in a way, why test for all these subjects when Cisco has the split tracks? IF your doing routing and switching, focus on routing and switching. Then go to the other tracks. Really ultimately what it is going to boil down to though is more money for Cisco, once this change has been "officially" announced, because then the normal CCNP guy that would have been well rounded will have to take multiple tracks to be "well rounded." If you get your CCNP down before the change (depending on when that is) than you will be ok. I would at least try to do BCMSN and BSCI before they change since they will count toward the change.


The only thing you can do if you need stuff in the knowledge is go out and get it. It doesn't matter if it isn't on the CCNA or even CCNP, make the time to learn it on your own

GT-Rob

If learning the material or technologies are what you are worried about, you don't need a cert to force you to do that. All the cert does it give you some multiple choice questions to verify you know the content of that test.


Also, you have to realize theres only so much room on a blueprint. If they add a new technology (which we all agree is very important), they are probably going to have to drop an old one, regardless of if its still in use today. Id rather they drop IS-IS, but thats just me :P

Slowhand

I'm going to agree with GT-Rob here, you're always going to be learning things that are outside the scope of an exam or even a whole certification. There's nothing stopping you from taking another path once the newer (and seemingly shorter) CCNP path launches, or doing extra-curricular reading. The Cisco Press library has plenty of dead-tree tomes to teach you anything you might need to know on the job, (just like there was before there were countless certs to help you plan out your learning-path and you just had to read up on things you needed as they came).

If your boss wants you to know ISDN, then you can pick up a book or two and do some lab-work to learn it. If you're worried about not knowing VPN and other remote-access technologies there's always the CCSP path, and there's a whole exam on the CCIP path dedicated to QoS. Quite frankly, I think cutting back on the extraneous material in the CCNP might just be a good thing, bringing it down to the same scope on routing and switching topics that the others are in their respective fields. Covering a little bit about everything, on top of learning pro-level R&S is a bit daunting while you're studying to pass the exams.

Met44

I wonder if they will simply throw some of the old material into the new exams, kind of like how the current ONT and BCMSN sprinkle in some wireless. I won't be worried about Cisco's direction until their certs are asking questions about Linux server administration

billscott92787

I would assume they wouldn't since they have those tracks that cover that material. But, I am not sure. I mean if you want to be in that field, you need to do more than just the exam itself anyway. I mean yes the exam does give you a good round of the information. But, there is a lot of stuff that you would learn more in the field or on your own as a network engineer from what I have heard.

networker050184

GT-Rob wrote: »

If learning the material or technologies are what you are worried about, you don't need a cert to force you to do that. All the cert does it give you some multiple choice questions to verify you know the content of that test.

I agree with this. If you need to know something for your job go learn it. You don't need a certification to do that.

mikearama

networker050184 wrote: »

I agree with this. If you need to know something for your job go learn it. You don't need a certification to do that.

+1

As an example, we run ACE modules in our big Cats for SSL traffic and load balancing. I'll be damned if I can find a cert track that includes anything ACE related, but we had to learn them inside-out anyway. I think I know enough now to pass any pro level exam about them... if they existed.

ColbyG

You guys are thinking about a scenario where you have a job and need to learn something. I'm thinking more of people who looking for jobs, or starting new jobs.

The stuff I had to learn for the NP made me more well rounded. I have applied things I learned that I never really expected to use. Taking these things away from the NP is a bad thing, IMO. Instead of a thorough understanding of Routing and Switching PLUS a decent understanding of several other things, it sounds like the future CCNPs will ONLY have that R&S knowledge, without much else. I don't think this is a good thing.

networker050184

ColbyNA wrote: »

You guys are thinking about a scenario where you have a job and need to learn something. I'm thinking more of people who looking for jobs, or starting new jobs.

The stuff I had to learn for the NP made me more well rounded. I have applied things I learned that I never really expected to use. Taking these things away from the NP is a bad thing, IMO. Instead of a thorough understanding of Routing and Switching PLUS a decent understanding of several other things, it sounds like the future CCNPs will ONLY have that R&S knowledge, without much else. I don't think this is a good thing.

I agree that someone who is a CCNP should have a well rounded knowledge base and taking stuff like QoS and WAN technologies out is a bad thing (if that is what they decide to do, I'm just speculating). That is why experience is important and most people don't recommend a professional level certification to someone without the real world hands on. If you only know what is covered in exams you are going to have giant holes in your knowledge regardless. I am glad the IE and NP seem to be getting focused a lot more on troubleshooting though.

Turgon

jovan88 wrote: »

I know its still all speculation until at least another month, but it anyone else worried about the direction Cisco is going with the CCNP? Cisco is trying to make the certs more specialized, however the industry is requiring that the technicians know a bit of everything.

Word on the street is they could be taking out topics from the ISCW and ONT. However, being a CCNP, interviewers are going to assume you know these things (VPN, QoS, DSL etc).

Just like I'm sure many CCNAs (including myself) have a hard time with ISDN since they removed it. My boss wasn't impressed when I told him I have very little knowledge about ISDN technology and I'm a CCNA.

Well, it looks like more and more people who are following the CCNP path are just going to have to learn the material on their own. I guess if you work in this industry you should be doing that anyway instead of Cisco holding your hand through everything.

So it looks like we just have to wait until the official announcement comes - but there's my rant!

One of the worse things they ever did was remove ISDN because it's still out there in datacentres and needs to be supported. One of the recent projects at my last shop was rollout of infrastructure using ISDN for out of band management for the devices at remote offices.

As for field work more companies are looking for PIX/ASA, VPN, Wireless, Voice and MPLS experience as well as SONET, metro ethernet to name but a few. The CCNP does not cover all that but even if it did it is current hands on experience on live infrastructure employers are looking for in all these things. So go deep and wide on your studies and get as much exposure as you can at work and at home.

Turgon

mikearama wrote: »

+1

As an example, we run ACE modules in our big Cats for SSL traffic and load balancing. I'll be damned if I can find a cert track that includes anything ACE related, but we had to learn them inside-out anyway. I think I know enough now to pass any pro level exam about them... if they existed.

That experience will serve you well should you move. I have worked with 6509's and in technical interviews they are asking about exposure to all these things. Difficult if you haven't been doing it on the job to get your points across.

chrisone

My only problem with the "Routing and switching" track is that CCNP is suppose to gear you towards CCIE R&S which it does a great job however, there is not wireless whats so ever on the CCIE R&S and yet the CCNP track has you studying a "HUGE" vast amount of wireless topics and chapters on wireless.

After completing the CCNP recently i feel ready to take the CCNA wireless lol Seriously you go through all the topics and chapters of the CCNA wireless in the CCNP track. You learn how to setup WLC, WLAN QOS, WLAPP, WLAN Security, Autonomous and Lightweight APs. SO much information , probably more pages in the CCNP course than the actual CCNA Wireless book has. Yet...it is not a subject on the CCIE R&S.

I would like Cisco to keep the CCNP intact, just take out the wireless portions, then it will be perfect. If you strip it down to much it will lose its credibility and it will make all us CCNPs look weak. which will force us to get other certs which is ciscos evil scheme now....

ColbyG

I didn't like studying all the wireless stuff at the time, but I'm happy I did. I do a ton with wireless at my current job, the CCNP gave me a decent knowledge base which helped a lot with this position.

Turgon

chrisone wrote: »

My only problem with the "Routing and switching" track is that CCNP is suppose to gear you towards CCIE R&S which it does a great job however, there is not wireless whats so ever on the CCIE R&S and yet the CCNP track has you studying a "HUGE" vast amount of wireless topics and chapters on wireless.

After completing the CCNP recently i feel ready to take the CCNA wireless lol Seriously you go through all the topics and chapters of the CCNA wireless in the CCNP track. You learn how to setup WLC, WLAN QOS, WLAPP, WLAN Security, Autonomous and Lightweight APs. SO much information , probably more pages in the CCNP course than the actual CCNA Wireless book has. Yet...it is not a subject on the CCIE R&S.

I would like Cisco to keep the CCNP intact, just take out the wireless portions, then it will be perfect. If you strip it down to much it will lose its credibility and it will make all us CCNPs look weak. which will force us to get other certs which is ciscos evil scheme now....

To be honest with you it's probably not a bad thing that wireless is on CCNP as well as CCNA. A lot of dyed in the wool Cisco people are in a bit of a cul de sac because R&S is all they know. Its useful to know a few things on the edge. MPLS/Wireless/Voice/Storage/PIX-ASA/ACE. They are asked for more and more in jobs of late.

BroadcastStorm

Turgon wrote: »

To be honest with you it's probably not a bad thing that wireless is on CCNP as well as CCNA. A lot of dyed in the wool Cisco people are in a bit of a cul de sac because R&S is all they know. Its useful to know a few things on the edge. MPLS/Wireless/Voice/Storage/PIX-ASA/ACE. They are asked for more and more in jobs of late.

I totally agree with this, having more knowledge is better than having less, CCNP is CCNP for a reason the amount of knowledge you can get out of it, somehow each topic will reinforce each other, making it more concrete.

But ofcourse Cisco will want more money, I hope they realize that working people just don't have time to get obtain all the pro tracks, and having a well rounded CCNP is in their best interest.

shodown

+1 for ISDN

My first networking job was at a voip provider where they usually hired CCNA's for support. THey knew ISDN was gone, but it was a big part of my job since thats how we made it to the PSTN. I think at least a few pages of CCNA should mention it as most places are going to some flavor of IP telephony and 9 times out of 10 you will be using ISDN to make your calls out.

chrisone

i too do not mind wireless and i actually enjoy the technology. I just feel it gets in the way of the true CCNP technologies.

I also do not mind having people, including myself, take the CCNA wireless to prove such skills. Not many people, after taking CCNP, are known for their wireless abilities.

malcybood

mikearama wrote: »

+1

As an example, we run ACE modules in our big Cats for SSL traffic and load balancing. I'll be damned if I can find a cert track that includes anything ACE related, but we had to learn them inside-out anyway. I think I know enough now to pass any pro level exam about them... if they existed.

Hey mikearama, I also deal with content switching / ssl offloading in my job as I work in a data centre environment. I thought you may be interested in this specialist exam. I would like to sit this once we migrate to ACE platform, but at the moment we run CSM mod in 6500 chassis.

This course is available if you have PEC partner access and also covers Global Site electors, which I also use at my work. Very good as these are pretty niche areas.

642-975 DCASI - IT Certification and Career Paths - Cisco Systems

The old exam that is now retired covered CSS/CSM but ACE is the migration path going forward in the Cisco roadmap.

Old Content Networking exam

Cisco Content Networking Specialist - IT Certification and Career Paths - Cisco Systems

Hope this is of interest to you

Sepiraph

You shouldn't really expect to learn *only* course material. Learn to learn on your own, which with google these days it is easier than ever.

JDMurray

Sepiraph wrote: »

You shouldn't really expect to learn *only* course material. Learn to learn on your own, which with google these days it is easier than ever.

Very true, but most people (including myself) rely on the cert exam objectives to indicate "what's hot and what's not." Changes in cert exams sometimes reflect more the desires of the cert vendor rather than what's going on in the real world (e.g., removing ISDN and IGRP from the CCNA exam didn't not make these protocols instantly disappear from use). Aside from what our employers require, we only have our fellow IT pro to give an indication of what knowledge is still needed.

Slowhand

Sepiraph wrote: »

You shouldn't really expect to learn *only* course material. Learn to learn on your own, which with google these days it is easier than ever.

I definitely agree with this, as well as with JDMurray's point of using the certs as a way of seeing what's hot right now and what new things are out there. It's very easy to get pigeon-holed in this industry, and having a cert like CCNP, MCSE, etc. to show that you know more than, say, the old clunker-systems you're working with in your current job, is a very good thing.

I also like to use the certs as a primer if I'm coming into a technology fresh. It's a great way of "reading the manual" and proving you myself that I know this stuff before going out and breaking things in a production environment. As my IT instructor in college used to say: "learn how to break it Microsoft's/Cisco's way first, then learn to break it your own way."

maquesad

I heard that Cisco was going to release more information by January... does anybody knows when will this be official?

mens

This guy says by the end of the month:
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/message/37912