Need to buy a new PC - Advice Please!

veritas_libertas

Well it's upgrade time again (despite the wife's pleas). Fortunately this upgrade is justified for ROI reasons, and college needs.

I want/need to buy a PC that can handle running multiple VMs on it, as well a decent sized LCD screen. It has been quite a while since I have built a PC and am wondering if that is really the way to go. Any advice on what kind of setup I could get for no more than $600? I am really not familiar with new types processors anymore.

exampasser

If you have the time, building it yourself may be the way to go. There is some good deals on computer parts at Newegg such as a 2.6Ghz AMD Phenom quad core for only $100. What is your budget?

HeroPsycho

Intel Core i3's and 5's are good buys, too. I just got a Core i5 for $200, and I've seen a lower model for $150. They're quadcore, and exceptional values for the money.

Pash

Personally I would never buy a system ever again. You can buy value parts and build you own for $600 and the chances are your gonna have a better build that will last longer.

As others have said stick with Intel chipset if you are planning on running VM's, the more cores the better. You also need to invest in some RAM and take into consideration hard drive space AND speed (two SATA hard drives of same type and size in RAID 0 will give you good performance for running VM's).

Pash

veritas_libertas

I was thinking about getting a AMD Quad Core Phenom with 4GB of RAM. What do you guys think of this? I am trying to save money, going AMD would lower the cost.

tiersten

Pash wrote: »

take into consideration hard drive space AND speed (two SATA hard drives of same type and size in RAID 0 will give you good performance for running VM's)

If you're using RAID 0 then I hope you have a very rigorous backup system in place or don't care about that data.

The current "high" performance setup which doesn't involve remortgaging your house is to have a small value range SSD as the boot/app drive and to store everything else on HDs. Something like the Intel X25-V or Kingston SSDNow V. If you're sufficiently crazy and rich then the top of the line setup is that you have multiple fast SSDs in RAID10 but you'll be looking at crazy prices for all those SSDs and a good RAID card.

bwcarty

For me, it's Newegg all the way.

Dell has a quad core machine with a 20" LCD for $529, but it only has 2GB memory and 250GB hard drive. If you're going to run ESXi on it, 4GB would be fine, but if you're running VMware Workstation or some other virtualization platform on top of Windows, I'd go up to 8GB.

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remyforbes777

Hmmm, this is iffy. I bought a Lenovo system for about 600, Intel Quad Core 2.5 Ghz, 8 GB RAM and 640 GB hard drive. If you can get away with building a system for cheaper I would say do it especially if you can squeeze a RAID card and an extra hard drive into it.

*********Beware**********
Make sure your Processor is VT enabled. I made the mistake when I bought this the CPU (Intel 8300) was not VT enabled which means you can't run 64 bit VM's.

*********End Beware*******

I would say, if you can find some good deals on parts, go for the self build. You may have a more robust system that can be expanded later.

JDMurray

remyforbes777 wrote: »

*********Beware**********
Make sure your Processor is VT enabled. I made the mistake when I bought this the CPU (Intel 8300) was not VT enabled which means you can't run 64 bit VM's.

*********End Beware*******

Very true. I just saw a very good deal on workstations based on the Intel Q8330, but the Q8xxx series does not support VT operation, so that's a big "no-go" for me. All modern AMD processors support virtualization (AMD-V), but not all modern Intel processors.

For a system that I expected to get at least five years of operation from (without upgrading the CPU), I'd only consider the Intel i7 series or Xeon quad core.

veritas_libertas

JDMurray wrote: »

Very true. I just saw a very good deal on workstations based on the Intel Q8330, but the Q8xxx series does not support VT operation, so that's a big "no-go" for me. All modern AMD processors support virtualization (AMD-V), but not all modern Intel processors.

For a system that I expected to get at least five years of operation from (without upgrading the CPU), I'd only consider the Intel i7 series or Xeon quad core.

I am perfectly alright with AMD processors. That might be the way I go.

Pash

tiersten wrote: »

If you're using RAID 0 then I hope you have a very rigorous backup system in place or don't care about that data.

The current "high" performance setup which doesn't involve remortgaging your house is to have a small value range SSD as the boot/app drive and to store everything else on HDs. Something like the Intel X25-V or Kingston SSDNow V. If you're sufficiently crazy and rich then the top of the line setup is that you have multiple fast SSDs in RAID10 but you'll be looking at crazy prices for all those SSDs and a good RAID card.

No I put all my important files and pictures on the RAID 0 WD Ratptors I have....

my point is RAID 0 gives back great performance for the cost...usually, and if you stick your vm's on there worse case is you would have to rebuild them if it went pear shaped and you didnt back them up.

SSD's per GB are too expensive at the moment, which is why I havent got any.

tiersten

JDMurray wrote: »

For a system that I expected to get at least five years of operation from (without upgrading the CPU), I'd only consider the Intel i7 series or Xeon quad core.

Make sure you're getting the correct motherboard for the i7 model you want. If you get one of the cheaper new models then it will be using a LGA1156 socket and the motherboard interface is different. If you want the future Gulftown 6 core CPU then you'll need to get a board that has a LGA1366 socket.

The LGA1156 Core i7s can actually be faster than the older model slow LGA1366 Core i7s because of the newer core in the LGA1156 ones and the newer turbo boost mechanism.

laidbackfreak

Dont suppose anyone fancy's putting a kit list together ?

I'm quite tempted to build a new pc for myself, but dont have the time to research kit at the mo.
So based on uk budget of around £600 what can should I get?

I'm after a work horse more than gaming machine.

Any offers?

veritas_libertas

laidbackfreak wrote: »

Dont suppose anyone fancy's putting a kit list together ?

I'm quite tempted to build a new pc for myself, but dont have the time to research kit at the mo.
So based on uk budget of around £600 what can should I get?

I'm after a work horse more than gaming machine.

Any offers?

Same here, that is what I am looking for as well. I don't have the time for games anymore...

tpatt100

I stopped building PCs years ago when the price/performance/time ratio I use for myself became to similar/close for me. I got sick of troubleshooting random things at boot.

"Now" though after several years of buying Dell desktops/laptops I am finding myself tempted to go back into building my own because getting maximum gaming performance puts a hurt on the wallet for that last "10 percent".

For virtual machines I would look at fast dual/quad and a lot of ram mainly.

wd40

tiersten wrote: »

Make sure you're getting the correct motherboard for the i7 model you want. If you get one of the cheaper new models then it will be using a LGA1156 socket and the motherboard interface is different. If you want the future Gulftown 6 core CPU then you'll need to get a board that has a LGA1366 socket.

The LGA1156 Core i7s can actually be faster than the older model slow LGA1366 Core i7s because of the newer core in the LGA1156 ones and the newer turbo boost mechanism.

New Core i7's are faster but you do not get Triple Channel RAM support with LGA1156 motherboards, this adds to the complexity of deciding which Core i7 to buy.

JDMurray

tpatt100 wrote: »

For virtual machines I would look at fast dual/quad and a lot of ram mainly.

For the price, I think the Dell Precision T5500 workstation would make an excellent VMware ESXi 4 server for a home lab. Dual Xeon quad core CPUs and up to 72GB RAM. Buy it with the minimal video card, smallest SATA drive (250GB), minimum RAM (2GB), and buy cheaper RAM and drives elsewhere. The base system is under $2K. Throw in a 4-port Gb NIC, the PERC6 RAID card, an iSCSI NAS, and vSphere with ESXi 4 and I couldn't be happier.

tiersten

wd40 wrote: »

New Core i7's are faster but you do not get Triple Channel RAM support with LGA1156 motherboards, this adds to the complexity of deciding which Core i7 to buy.

Most users don't actually need the 3 independant RAM channels since most apps aren't memory IO bound. The speed increase from having the higher turbo boost multipliers gives you a bigger benefit.

wd40

tiersten wrote: »

Most users don't actually need the 3 independant RAM channels since most apps aren't memory IO bound. The speed increase from having the higher turbo boost multipliers gives you a bigger benefit.

I Agree with you, most users will be happy with a Core2Duo with 2GB of RAM.

But since we are IT people we have to digg into these details ..

remyforbes777

JDMurray wrote: »

Very true. I just saw a very good deal on workstations based on the Intel Q8330, but the Q8xxx series does not support VT operation, so that's a big "no-go" for me. All modern AMD processors support virtualization (AMD-V), but not all modern Intel processors.

For a system that I expected to get at least five years of operation from (without upgrading the CPU), I'd only consider the Intel i7 series or Xeon quad core.

Definitely. Sad part about it is I plan on buying a new CPU just so that I can run 64 bit OS's.

apena7

Make sure your next computer comes with a turbo button.

tiersten

apena7 wrote: »

Make sure your next computer comes with a turbo button.

+ the 7 segment LED display that shows the "clock" speed when you toggle the button.

exampasser

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I was thinking about getting a AMD Quad Core Phenom with 4GB of RAM. What do you guys think of this? I am trying to save money, going AMD would lower the cost.

How many virtual machines do you plan to run? If it's just one or two at a time you should be fine with 4GB of RAM. If you plan to run some linux virtual machines you can run a few more without any issues.

veritas_libertas

exampasser wrote: »

How many virtual machines do you plan to run? If it's just one or two at a time you should be fine with 4GB of RAM. If you plan to run some linux virtual machines you can run a few more without any issues.

I am planning to use if for my MCITP studies, so how ever many that may be. I figure 3 instances at the most?

exampasser

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I am planning to use if for my MCITP studies, so how ever many that may be. I figure 3 instances at the most?

It sounds like 4GB of RAM will do it for you then. I should also point out that Microsoft also offers free virtual labs: http://www.microsoft.com/events/vlabs/default.mspx.

eMeS

I'm a big fan of building systems myself, because then I get exactly what I want. My main computer is a Mac Book Pro, but we have several Windows machines that we use for the business, as well as several that I have in my home, all are custom built.

Some things I look for:

1) I don't have a motherboard vendor preference, but I like motherboards with integrated NICs.

2) I prefer rack-mount chassis. All of the work stuff, and most of our home stuff is rack mount at this point.

3) Get a case with quiet fans. This is a really big deal to me. Always has been. I hate having to go back later and change out the fans.

4) Get a modular power supply. In the last couple of years I've had a couple of Antec power supplies die on me. I since switched to Corsair, and I really like those. Go for the modular ones so that you only have the cables that you need. I tend to get a power supply that is a bit higher wattage than I expect to consume.

5) I generally avoid the motherboards with integrated video...I don't seem to have much luck with those.

That's all I can think of at the moment. If I were building one today I would probably wait for a sale and grab a 2 TB drive and I would seriously consider one of the lower priced SSDs as my boot drive. Those things are really dropping in price.

MS

tiersten

eMeS wrote: »

1) I don't have a motherboard vendor preference, but I like motherboards with integrated NICs.

I've had issues with Abit boards and nVidia motherboard chipsets in general. My current board is a Gigabyte one and its been fine so far. As with every other thing, I'm sure there will be somebody out there who has the exact reverse as me and won't touch Gigabyte with a 10 foot barge pole but only trusts Abit.

eMeS wrote: »

3) Get a case with quiet fans. This is a really big deal to me. Always has been. I hate having to go back later and change out the fans.

+1. Get decent fans that are quiet. You'll end up having to dismantle and replace the cheap ones anyway because they'll be grinding or squeaking after a few months.

My number 1 requirement for a PC now is that it shouldn't sound like a jet engine spinning up.

eMeS wrote: »

4) Get a modular power supply. In the last couple of years I've had a couple of Antec power supplies die on me. I since switched to Corsair, and I really like those. Go for the modular ones so that you only have the cables that you need. I tend to get a power supply that is a bit higher wattage than I expect to consume.

If you do buy a modular PSU then make sure that you actually have sufficient room in the case since the cable plugs tend to make it stick out more than usual.

Daniel333

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broc

For those in the UK, check you the HP Proliant ML115, I have two of those at home running esxi and you can't beat the price! You basically get a full system for the price of an i7 processor...

HP KVR800D2N6K2/4G, TG002GF102LB, 470065-138 ML115 'Ideal Virtualisation Testbed' Bundle | ServersPlus

I have upgraded them to 8gb, they happily run 10-12 VMs (in a lab situation).

tiersten

broc wrote: »

For those in the UK, check you the HP Proliant ML115, I have two of those at home running esxi and you can't beat the price! You basically get a full system for the price of an i7 processor...

HP KVR800D2N6K2/4G, TG002GF102LB, 470065-138 ML115 'Ideal Virtualisation Testbed' Bundle | ServersPlus

I have upgraded them to 8gb, they happily run 10-12 VMs (in a lab situation).

I bought a bunch of those when they had a Opteron 1210 dual core CPU but they were only £100 back then. Good for server or VM usage. Only problem is that the remote management card is usually more expensive than the unit!

broc

tiersten wrote: »

I bought a bunch of those when they had a Opteron 1210 dual core CPU but they were only £100 back then. Good for server or VM usage. Only problem is that the remote management card is usually more expensive than the unit!

Yep I do remember, I had one of those too. I upgraded a few weeks ago, the four cores make a difference when running multiple VMs.

The light out cards are expensive but you sometimes find them for fairly cheap on eBay, same goes for the E200 Smart Array RAID Controller, I bought one 2 weeks ago for £70 instead of £200+ new.