ITIL V3 Intermediate Online Learning Provider Query

OVOCO5OVOCO5 Member Posts: 2 ■□□□□□□□□□
Hi All,

This is a brief history of my ITIL course provider qualification journey :

ITIL foundation – Taken with Purple Griffin ( office based)
ITIL Intermediate SOA– Taken with Global Knowledge/Fox IT (office based)
ITIL Intermediate – SO – Taken with an online provider ITSM solutions (online based).

So far I’ve been impressed with all the above providers most notably GK and ITSM Solutions.

I’ve recently had an opportunity to join an “ITIL 100 Experts Program” the idea behind this is to join an online program of people around the world who will all work towards the ITIL expert qualification together in roughly 18 months. This will be hosted online with a company called The ITIL Training Zone.

I’d like to know if anyone in this forum have used them and their personal thoughts and experiences about using them for training, such as quality of materials i.e. video and pace of course and would they recommend them?

Thanks



G

Comments

  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    OVOCO5 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    This is a brief history of my ITIL course provider qualification journey :

    ITIL foundation – Taken with Purple Griffin ( office based)
    ITIL Intermediate SOA– Taken with Global Knowledge/Fox IT (office based)
    ITIL Intermediate – SO – Taken with an online provider ITSM solutions (online based).

    So far I’ve been impressed with all the above providers most notably GK and ITSM Solutions.

    I’ve recently had an opportunity to join an “ITIL 100 Experts Program” the idea behind this is to join an online program of people around the world who will all work towards the ITIL expert qualification together in roughly 18 months. This will be hosted online with a company called The ITIL Training Zone.

    I’d like to know if anyone in this forum have used them and their personal thoughts and experiences about using them for training, such as quality of materials i.e. video and pace of course and would they recommend them?

    Thanks



    G

    I've never heard of them. That doesn't mean much...there are many springing up everyday that are solely in the business of training. Some are better than others.

    I can tell you that for people pursuing the Expert qualification my informed opinion is that online training most likely makes them paper experts. Many of the people becoming ITIL Experts couldn't service manage themselves out of a paper bag. Ultimately this will kill any value that ITIL might have had. I feel that in the coming years OGC will have to clamp down on this, much as Cisco did with their certification program.

    Nothing against any of the online providers, but I've seen a lot of the products and they in no way match what you get out of the in-person classroom experience from many of the big players (HP, GK, Pink, etc...) that are using instructors that are actual practitioners with actual experience in the field.

    Sadly, my opinion is that they've made ITIL Expert much too easy to get. Really all it is now is a series of exams that must be passed. Back in ITIL v2, if someone held the ITIL Manager's Certificate you could be assured that they knew the material inside-out, and that they had actual experience in the field because there were at the time verified experience requirements.

    Hopefully the new ITIL Master certification, when released, will be as difficult to achieve as the v2 Manager's certificate was.

    MS
  • OVOCO5OVOCO5 Member Posts: 2 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Hi MS,

    Thanks for your reply. I completely agree that class room training is more beneficial in terms of real world examples and of course you get to meet peers from other companies for further experiences. You could also argue the learnings are crammed into a few short days. Either way, both have their pros and cons.

    I work in the ITSM industry and believe in the frame work ITIL has too offer, hence I wish to become an expert at it, even if it’s a paper name I want to be aware of it as best as I can.

    The soul reason I’m taking the Online E-Learning avenue is due to budget constraints/economic climate at the firm I work for. If I went for ITIL Expert at class room level it would cost nearly £10.000 for the courses and even more to the firm as I’m not their. The course offered from The ITIL Training Zone is 20% of that cost and no cost to the firm in terms of time off work (both costs including exams).

    I think it’s much easier to find out what class room based ITIL learning’s are good. People who have been taught by Pink or GK/Fox IT seem much more open about their learning experience. Where as I can’t find a guide to ITIL online learning anywhere which for a consumer is frustrating.


    G
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    OVOCO5 wrote: »
    The soul reason I’m taking the Online E-Learning avenue is due to budget constraints/economic climate at the firm I work for. If I went for ITIL Expert at class room level it would cost nearly £10.000 for the courses and even more to the firm as I’m not their. The course offered from The ITIL Training Zone is 20% of that cost and no cost to the firm in terms of time off work (both costs including exams).

    Please don't think I'm unnecessarily targeting you, but this line of reasoning makes very little sense to me. It's a lot like saying I know the best way to do something, but I don't have the time and the money to do it that way so I'm going to do it this other half-assed way.

    Take the statement: "I know that my car needs gasoline to run, but I'm going to fill the tank with water and see what happens". The damage that would be caused and the inability to travel would ultimately cost more than the original expense. That's often the result of low-cost, online training solutions.

    It's very similar to the argument that people often use in support of using exam ****. That argument goes, "I know the right way to do this would be to work with the technology and study for the exam, but I don't have time for that so I'm going to go buy the exam questions and just study those."

    The other thing that stands out to me about your reply is that you've mentioned the cost to the firm of your absence. That's a problem in my mind for anyone pursuing the ITIL Intermediate or Expert qualifications, as the syllabus clearly states the time commitment expected. It's clear that given the commitment required that it's impossible to also do your full-time job simultaneously. In my experience, people that try to complete these courses while maintaining full-time job commitments are the ones that contribute to the high failure rate at the intermediate and expert levels.

    On another hand I'm supportive of this approach, since I make a ton of money delivering training for companies that have been burned by doing it the wrong way. I also do pretty well cleaning up behind paper experts that have "helped" organizations adopt ITIL best practices.

    In any event, I think it's a dumb idea, but I wish you the best at it. Please report back on your experience.

    MS
  • ITILTRAINITILTRAIN Banned Posts: 21 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Read between the lines on the ITIL Training Zone programs as the programs they are offfering are not yet built or accredited (I heard that APMG just changed the rules on the accrediation process for online products). The price they are offering is promotional in return for waiting for the products to be built. There are other suppliers in the online space that have had accredited products out for some time.

    If you can wait and feel that what they are offering is OK for you then you should go for it. You should take the time to review each vendors product and do you own bake off before giving out your credit card.

    In today's economy companies (especially small ones) are dropping like flies so you may not want to give them you money up front,...only give them a portion and as they release new products give them some more

    hope this helps
  • tprice5tprice5 Member Posts: 770
    eMeS wrote: »
    Please don't think I'm unnecessarily targeting you, but this line of reasoning makes very little sense to me. It's a lot like saying I know the best way to do something, but I don't have the time and the money to do it that way so I'm going to do it this other half-assed way.

    Take the statement: "I know that my car needs gasoline to run, but I'm going to fill the tank with water and see what happens". The damage that would be caused and the inability to travel would ultimately cost more than the original expense. That's often the result of low-cost, online training solutions.

    It's very similar to the argument that people often use in support of using exam ****. That argument goes, "I know the right way to do this would be to work with the technology and study for the exam, but I don't have time for that so I'm going to go buy the exam questions and just study those."

    The other thing that stands out to me about your reply is that you've mentioned the cost to the firm of your absence. That's a problem in my mind for anyone pursuing the ITIL Intermediate or Expert qualifications, as the syllabus clearly states the time commitment expected. It's clear that given the commitment required that it's impossible to also do your full-time job simultaneously. In my experience, people that try to complete these courses while maintaining full-time job commitments are the ones that contribute to the high failure rate at the intermediate and expert levels.

    On another hand I'm supportive of this approach, since I make a ton of money delivering training for companies that have been burned by doing it the wrong way. I also do pretty well cleaning up behind paper experts that have "helped" organizations adopt ITIL best practices.

    In any event, I think it's a dumb idea, but I wish you the best at it. Please report back on your experience.

    MS

    This entire rant just pissed me off. Comparing online training to brain ****? You cannot be serious. We get it, you make a lot of money but not all of us can afford to quit our jobs to devote to a certification, ITIL expert or othweise. Please take your elitist attitude elsewhere.
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  • petedudepetedude Member Posts: 1,510
    tprice5 wrote: »
    This entire rant just pissed me off. Comparing online training to brain ****? You cannot be serious. We get it, you make a lot of money but not all of us can afford to quit our jobs to devote to a certification, ITIL expert or othweise. Please take your elitist attitude elsewhere.

    I wouldn't have been as blunt about it, but yeah, I was gearing up to respond to eMeS in a similar (if more diplomatic) fashion. It bothers me, too, that folks believe or asset that learning through an online medium is somehow inherently inferior to learning in a classroom. Worse, eMeS has a vested interest in his stance and is not offering that in the spirit of full disclosure.

    Anyone who's ever trained or will train people should be aware of folks having different learning styles. Some people absolutely require personal and in-person handholding through a topic, while others learn best in social environments. Others learn best through reading and some through tactile methodologies (labs). This is over and above such issues as cost/time. If anyone somehow believes people cannot learn without guided in-person instruction, why would they frequent this board? This is almost the last place anyone wants to stand up and scream "throw out those books, practice exams, blogs, eReaders and run to your local training provider now!" Much like walking into a North American biker bar and screaming "Kawasaki rocks!".

    While I'm glad someone pointed out the interim status of ITIL Training Zone, but I think they will prove to be quite the contender in the long haul.
    Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
    --Will Rogers
  • Liz GallacherLiz Gallacher Member Posts: 107
    "While I'm glad someone pointed out the interim status of ITIL Training Zone, but I think they will prove to be quite the contender in the long haul."

    The original comment about the ITIL training Zone was posted 3 years ago. They are now one of the most successful and well regarded distance learning sites for ITIL
  • arieldarield Member Posts: 38 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I'm currently enrolled in ITIL Training Zone for the foundation course and I'm also reading Liz Gallacher's Book (very good, but I can only comment on her foundation guide). I think it's an over-kill to use both the book and online learning, but I feel confident that thorough understanding in the foundation course will make it easier to progress later onto the Intermediate courses and then to the Expert level. Bottom line is... I do not want to simply pass the exam, I need to be able to understand it and use it at work. So this is the method I felt most confident in.

    So far I am pretty pleased with the ITIL Training Zone online course. In my youth, I was a certified trainer, and training adult learners was harder than teaching teenagers or young professionals in their 20s. I found that the ITIL Training Zone teaches in the fashion of adult learning. The presentations you visually see are short and straight to the point (easy to absorb), while verbal explanations are more detailed and easy to understand and easy to relate to. If you are an adult learner like me, then I recommend ITIL Training Zone. If you are a young professional with a sponge-like brain, then this course will be even more easy to complete. It’s a win-win in my opinion.

    As for some of the negative comments above from the elitist… I think some of these guys are living under a rock and you don’t realize the economy we’re living in. Most members on these forums are working full-time professional jobs, while going to college full-time, while studying for a technical certification, while taking care of their family/kids (the list goes on and on). On top of this, most companies are spread thin in this type of economy, and cannot afford to lose their staff for even a week, let alone months/years. If your company is able to afford to lose you for that long, I would question whether or not you are actually needed there and have job stability.

    Please do not knock on online training. I hardly believe that you know better than IV League schools (Harvard, Brown, Penn State, etc.) who all started to adopt online courses. Don’t say these universities are doing it for financial gain, because MIT offers free online courses. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking on live/onsite training neither. When I get to my CCNP course, I will want live classroom training, but that’s at my discretion.
  • arieldarield Member Posts: 38 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I didn't realize how old this thread is. lol
  • Claire AgutterClaire Agutter Member Posts: 772 ■■■■■■■□□□
    Hi arield, thanks for the kind feedback about our training and good luck with your exam! It's an old thread as you say, but as one of the first companies to offer all ITIL courses online it's nice to see attitudes changing icon_smile.gif Claire
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