MCITP:SA or MCITP:EA (or both)

Bl8ckr0uter

Welp the powers that be have killer my need to cert in juniper and replaced that with MS so before the end of the year I need to earn MCSA/MCSE or MCITP:SA/EA (along with some other stuff). I think I want to do the SA/EA track. My question for you guys is which one should I start off with and how difficult is the track? I have read the FAQs and it would seem the MCSA/SE track is more difficult than the SA/EA track. Anyone have a suggested test path? Thanks guys.

dynamik

SA would be the easiest if you're just trying to get it out of the way, but the EA will be the most comprehensive. I only have the EA; I really don't see a need to get both.

Bl8ckr0uter

dynamik wrote: »

SA would be the easiest if you're just trying to get it out of the way, but the EA will be the most comprehensive. I only have the EA; I really don't see a need to get both.

Dynamik in your opinion I should go for SA then EA?

Also is my choice of not doing the 2003 stuff sound? I mean we have many customers moving over to 2008 so I think that would be better to have....Maybe I will pick up a server 2003 inside out book and lab that stuff out and review that while I am doing SA/EA.

undomiel

My personal opinion is that you'll learn more doing the MCSE route, but if you're just needing the credentials then the SA/EA would be more expedient. Between those two I would pick the EA just because it will serve you better if you ever decide to move on.

Bl8ckr0uter

undomiel wrote: »

My personal opinion is that you'll learn more doing the MCSE route, but if you're just needing the credentials then the SA/EA would be more expedient. Between those two I would pick the EA just because it will serve you better if you ever decide to move on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to just get the cert, I want to know the material because I feel like I want to move up in the noc (and into engineering) because I am sick of being a ticket monkey. I think a combo of knowledge and certs will get me out of the noc. My only reason against the MCSA/E is alot of our customers are using 03 but many of them are moving to 08

dynamik

I would just go for the EA. If you get that and still feel like you're missing something and want to take on the SA, it's only one more exam. I just don't see any need for it.

MentholMoose

dynamik wrote: »

I would just go for the EA. If you get that and still feel like you're missing something and want to take on the SA, it's only one more exam. I just don't see any need for it.

Yeah the SA isn't that useful if you're going to continue on to the EA, but I still did the SA. I liked having an interim goal, and it's only one extra exam and not much of a burden (financial or otherwise). I found the 646 fairly easy after extensive studying for 640 and 642.

One nice thing about doing it is that it helps you review what you learned on 640 and 642. A practical consideration in favor of doing the SA is that it can be on your resume sooner than the EA and help with a job search.

Bl8ckr0uter

MentholMoose wrote: »

Yeah the SA isn't that useful if you're going to continue on to the EA, but I still did the SA. I liked having an interim goal, and it's only one extra exam and not much of a burden (financial or otherwise). I found the 646 fairly easy after extensive studying for 640 and 642.

One nice thing about doing it is that it helps you review what you learned on 640 and 642. A practical consideration in favor of doing the SA is that it can be on your resume sooner than the EA and help with a job search.

So out of these 4 paths:

MCSA(S)/MCSA(S)

MCSA(S)/MCITP:EA

MCITP:EA/MCITP:SA

MCITP:EA

It would seem like you guys are leaning towards the 4th. I am leaning towards the second simply because of the sheer volume of MCSA/E jobs vs MCITP jobs.


MCSA: Mcsa Jobs in Ohio | Indeed.com
MCITP Mcitp Jobs in Ohio | Indeed.com

To me it would seem like it would be good to have both (even if I can't get it all done this year).

broc

knwminus wrote: »

So out of these 4 paths:

MCSA(S)/MCSA(S)

MCSA(S)/MCITP:EA

MCITP:EA/MCITP:SA

MCITP:EA

It would seem like you guys are leaning towards the 4th. I am leaning towards the second simply because of the sheer volume of MCSA/E jobs vs MCITP jobs.


MCSA: Mcsa Jobs in Ohio | Indeed.com
MCITP Mcitp Jobs in Ohio | Indeed.com

To me it would seem like it would be good to have both (even if I can't get it all done this year).

If you want to go the MCSA then MCITP route to learn about 2003 & 2008 then go for it, if it's just because of the job board then I don't see the point.

Nothing will stop you to apply for a job asking for a MCSA when you have a MCITP EA.

Bl8ckr0uter

broc wrote: »

If you want to go the MCSA then MCITP route to learn about 2003 & 2008 then go for it, if it's just because of the job board then I don't see the point.

Nothing will stop you to apply for a job asking for a MCSA when you have a MCITP EA.

It is a mix of both. I do want to learn 03 and 08 well and even though my goal in life is not to be a windows admin, I am just looking at this as a way to get out of the noc (and at least get to the point where I am not just a ticket monkey).

But I guess you are right and the MCITP is just for a job so maybe MCITP:EA then see where that takes me. I could just pick up a server 2003 inside out book and review that when I am doing that EA (like I said before).

Rootstonian

I'm just starting out too and opted for MCITP route. One thing a friend or 2 in the industry pointed out was to NOT be "over certified" and "under qualified".

On a MCITP route, in my opinion, a SA would be one with 3-5 years experience and an EA somone with 5-10 years experience.

I was all gung-ho to go the SA route (3 tests) but was reminded of the fact above...sure, I have the SA; do I have the experience to back it and start at that range of pay? No.

Therfore, I'm taking MCITP 70-640, 642 and 643 to get the MCTS certification. I do have 13 years as a Systems Analyst/Programmer but ZERO networking. I *feel* I can get "in the door" with a MCTS entry-level position and according pay range.

In fact, given the current economy, I think organizations are going to be more willing to hire entry-level in the $25-35k range vs. taking a SA/EA with experience and handing out $55k-$70k (unless they really NEED that person).

Use your investment (as a company) that you have in your Senior Admins and bring the new ones along; it's been done for years and years (I did it as a Programmer ).

Edit/P.S. And yet another Ohioan! I love it.

Rootstonian

And another thing...LOL

Microsoft is GOING TO RETIRE Server 2003. It's going to happen. MS missed the boat with Vista and organizations using it on their desktops. That IS NOT going to happen with Windows 7. XP WILL BE GONE TOO.

Now, this is not going to happen overnight obvioulsy, but it is going to happen over the next 3 years (witness retirement of Server 2000). As above, I was a programmer in IT for 13 years and I went through a lot of small migrations to a couple of HUGE ones.

Projects of this magnitude (i.e. migration of Server 2003 to 2008, client migration of XP to Windows 7) could, and probably will be a 3 year plan for most organizations.

I was about 2 weeks from taking 290 for Server 2003. After doing 70-642 for 2008, the only thing I see is Server 2003 lacking items in Server 2008 and the interface. IMO, if you can run a Server 2008 box (at YOUR skill level), you can run a 2003 box.

Bl8ckr0uter

Rootstonian wrote: »

I'm just starting out too and opted for MCITP route. One thing a friend or 2 in the industry pointed out was to NOT be "over certified" and "under qualified".

On a MCITP route, in my opinion, a SA would be one with 3-5 years experience and an EA somone with 5-10 years experience.

I was all gung-ho to go the SA route (3 tests) but was reminded of the fact above...sure, I have the SA; do I have the experience to back it and start at that range of pay? No.

Therfore, I'm taking MCITP 70-640, 642 and 643 to get the MCTS certification. I do have 13 years as a Systems Analyst/Programmer but ZERO networking. I *feel* I can get "in the door" with a MCTS entry-level position and according pay range.

In fact, given the current economy, I think organizations are going to be more willing to hire entry-level in the $25-35k range vs. taking a SA/EA with experience and handing out $55k-$70k (unless they really NEED that person).

Use your investment (as a company) that you have in your Senior Admins and bring the new ones along; it's been done for years and years (I did it as a Programmer ).

Edit/P.S. And yet another Ohioan! I love it.

From MS website:


EA

Demonstrate your range of expertise, real-world skills, and mastery of Microsoft technologies by earning a Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP) credential.
Level:
Two or more years of experience as an IT professional
Audience:
IT professional
Type:
Microsoft Certification

SA

Demonstrate your range of expertise, real-world skills, and mastery of Microsoft technologies by earning a Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP) credential.
Level:
Two or more years of experience as an IT professional
Audience:
IT professional
Type:
Microsoft Certification

So as far as you amounts of exp I am going to have to disagree but I can agree with being over certified. However the way I see is it that the MCITPs are low to mid level certs. The CCNA:X and the CCDA are low level certs. Comptias are low level certs. As long as I don't go out a get my CCIE MCM/MCA and a boat load of other stuff AND I can backup my certs with knowledge (with home labing or exp at work, more than likely home labing since my exp at work !=system admin or network engineer) I should be ok.

dynamik

If it's any consolation, HR and hiring managers still have no clue WTF an MCITP is

Rootstonian

HR is just a clearing house to get candidates to departments for potential hire.

Now, if the hiring manager is not up to speed on MCITP, than shame on them because they're not doing their job and keeping up with current technology.

And if I'm not mistaken those "Two or more years..." are suggested to have BEFORE you take the certification.

And I was pointing out my situation in particular. My feeling is that if I try to get an entry-level job with a SA qualification and no experience, I'm going to have some difficulty.

For ex: "Mr. Roots, I see you have a Systems Administrator MS Certification. Can you give me background on how many servers you've been responsible for? Number of clients?

"Well, uh 1 physical server, 2 virtual servers (all in a lab, no Production) and one user"

LOL...again, this is MY situation.

BradH

I personally have gone down the SA route first and will be completing my EA over the next few months.

Why?

I wanted something that was MCITP to start with and Server Admin is my next hopefully job position. However I want the completed course of a EA due to the deployment aspects and later this year the company is progressing hopefully to Window 7 so it all goes hand in hand. Just that alone has me wanting to complete the EA aspect.

But I didn't do any of the MCSE/MCSA, so my choice is probably different to others.

Bl8ckr0uter

Rootstonian wrote: »

HR is just a clearing house to get candidates to departments for potential hire.

Now, if the hiring manager is not up to speed on MCITP, than shame on them because they're not doing their job and keeping up with current technology.

And if I'm not mistaken those "Two or more years..." are suggested to have BEFORE you take the certification.

And I was pointing out my situation in particular. My feeling is that if I try to get an entry-level job with a SA qualification and no experience, I'm going to have some difficulty.

For ex: "Mr. Roots, I see you have a Systems Administrator MS Certification. Can you give me background on how many servers you've been responsible for? Number of clients?

"Well, uh 1 physical server, 2 virtual servers (all in a lab, no Production) and one user"

LOL...again, this is MY situation.

Well it said 2 or more years of IT experience which I do have (actually 3 professional and a couple during school) so I guess I fit the bill.

Edit: I wouldn't get to worked up over years of exp for mcitp:XX. 2 years of experience....doing what? If I am sitting in a noc jacking off all night to **** and falling asleep on the job for 2 years is that going to qualify me to do there certs (this is a true story, not mine but true). What about if I am rolling out machines on the network and setting up rules in isa, making changes in exchange and assisting with sql support for 2 years is that going to qualify me? That X years of exp for an entry to mid level cert means nothing. There are people I know with almost 10 years of exp and I know much, much more than them in my short time and I will continue to grow. I sit next to an MCSE who told a friend of his to go to a "laptop hardware specialist" for a virus issue.....

Unfortunately I am never going to get out of the noc with that mindset. If I don't "force the matter" I could be stuck in here for years doing show commands, restarting failed services, rebooting servers and staring at em7 without moving ahead. I cannot "make" exp, but what I can do is play up my knowledge and hopefully this will work.

With your mindset, I shouldn't have finished my CCNA (I had never touched a production cisco box at the time) or even did my A+/N+ (at the time I had neither done pc support or network support). Certs are always to validate what you've done, they can be used (on an entry to mid level) to validate what you know, at least from a vendors perspective. I am probably going to go either the MCITP:EA route or the MCSA(maybe MCSA:S)>EA route since I think it will be good for me not only to know a little about server 03 but to validate that knowledge with an MCSA (since I cannot validate that knowledge with experience). But who knows.

My advise to you is to aim a little lower and put yourself up a little higher. I am not trying to be a sysadmin tomorrow, I am looking for more hands on network support (possibly network security support) to help me get closer to what I want to do (security, networking, linux). That said I know I don't have alot of exp (3 years) and I can't say that I have worked on a multi forest domain w/ 5000 users over multiple sites, but I will be able to say, I know about AD support, I can do X in Ad, I know how to user hyper v to do X, I know how to set up an 200x exchange server, I know how to set up replication in SQl 200X, I can use sysprep to do X, I know how to harden Windows X in additional to I know X amount about cisco routers, switches, uc520s (hate them), concentrators, and I know X amount about linux. That is really all anyone with entry level exp can do and it will either work or it won't.

Oh and by the way O-H?!?!?!

Rootstonian

I'm not sure you know what my "mindset" is. For background purposes, I have an A.A.B. in Computer Programming and a B.S. in Computer Science. I lost my programming job of 13 years 10.2009. So I've been around in the IT/Business environment. And I'm willing to bet I've got about 20 years life experience on you too.

You state "My advise to you is to aim a little lower and put yourself up a little higher. I am not trying to be a sysadmin tomorrow..." Exactly, my aim is lower going with the MCTS vs. SA or EA. And trust me, I am not "down" on myself, so I have no idea what you mean by "put yourself up a little higher".

I could toss my programming resume on Monster and be doing $80 to $100 an hour contract work in a couple of months...if I WANTED to get back into programming; I don't. That's where I"m putting myself higher by making such a change given the experience I have.


I'm glad you're at least somewhere that you can put on a resume whether you think it's valid or not. When it comes to getting a job, some employers glady treat 6 months experience (or a Co-Op) better than a candidate with zero experience.

"!!I-O!!" lol

Bl8ckr0uter

Rootstonian wrote: »

You state "My advise to you is to aim a little lower and put yourself up a little higher. I am not trying to be a sysadmin tomorrow..." Exactly, my aim is lower going with the MCTS vs. SA or EA. And trust me, I am not "down" on myself, so I have no idea what you mean by "put yourself up a little higher".

Ok my thing is this, why limit yourself based on what is "entry level" and what isn't. I guess my thing is IMO it seems like you are saying this "this is entry level" and "this is not" and my thing is like, if a job is looking for X certifications and you only have Y certifications, even though you can do X work, you could miss out because you choose to limit yourself. If we were talking like MCM / MCA or CCIE I could understand where you are coming from but I think that MCITP:XX are more entry to mid level so I think you won't over certify yourself by doing them. There is also MCITP:EDST7 or EDA7 , what about those?

My thing is are you saying MCITP:S/EA are higher level because of the material covered? That is why I was saying don't "down" yourself. If you can do it AND you can backup that knowledge in an interview/on the job then why not do it? That is my whole thing.

Rootstonian wrote: »

I'm glad you're at least somewhere that you can put on a resume whether you think it's valid or not. When it comes to getting a job, some employers glady treat 6 months experience (or a Co-Op) better than a candidate with zero experience.

I am not sure if we understand each other. I would NEVER put something on my resume unless I am sure I can back it up and I do work with windows on a daily bases (professionally and personally) so it isn't like I am completely a noob. I also have work 2 help desk supporting all flavors on windows client/server and in my current job I do support windows client/server (not nearly in the capacity that I would like). IF you are saying that I would put something on my resume that isn't true, then that simply isn't the case.


By the way what part of ohio are you in?

Rootstonian

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I need to examine what book there is for the SA test (I don't have it) and either do 3 tests for SA or 3 for MCTS.

This is just all new to me. And there was no such thing in college, really, as studying or getting a degree for an "entry-level" job.

About 20 miles east of Akron....and you?

Bl8ckr0uter

Rootstonian wrote: »

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I need to examine what book there is for the SA test (I don't have it) and either do 3 tests for SA or 3 for MCTS.

This is just all new to me. And there was no such thing in college, really, as studying or getting a degree for an "entry-level" job.

About 20 miles east of Akron....and you?

I suppose. As far as MCITP:SA/EA are concerned, you get a few mcts certs when you complete them so you get the best of both worlds (queue the Hannah Montana).

Dayton aka the city of suck.

veritas_libertas

knwminus wrote: »

(queue the Hannah Montana).

Where is the ban stick when you need it...

JK

Rootstonian

Like I said, I had 13 years in IT as a programmer. I have a few friends in the WAN and LAN group at the old job.

I was just wondering if some "old" folks would chime in on this...

That is, as a Senior Network Admin, and you were interviewing some new candidates, would you prefer the MCTS with ZERO experience or the MCITP SA with ZERO experience? Given no past work experience and same college degree (if applicable).

And I know this is a tough question, that is, WHAT job are you applying for. But for thiis exercise, take it at face value.

And I must add this...HR budgets this new opening at minimum $24,000 to maximum opening of $28,000, contingent on experience (or lack thereof).

Bl8ckr0uter

***bump***