70-642 Tomorrow

Well, it was scheduled for 2.4.10, but after going through all the lesson reviews and the lessons tests on MeasureUp, I felt ok and rescheduled it for 2.3.10.

It was our anniversary tonight (thanks

), so we went out to a nice dinner and stopped for a drink on the way home. I pull out the lappy and do a MeasureUp Certificaton practice test.

FAIL!

Of course, I'm way past the 24 hour deadline at this point to reschedule, so here I sit pulling an "all-nighter" to be able to pass this sucker on the first run.

Got the coffee pot going and just running test after test and reviewing where I'm answering wrong (and why). Haven't done an "exam cram" like this since the old college days! lol

I'm so mad at myself for rescheduling; I'm impulsive like that and it always gets me in trouble. I have the free-retake, but I'm just pissed off at myself enough to be motivated to study for the next 12 hours straight (test is at 11:00 a.m. on 2.3.10).

Back to it!

UPDATE (lol) 5:00 a.m. Well, I'm not as young as I used to be! Made it to about 1:30 a.m. and then just had to get some sleep. I'm more a morning person anyways. Fresh coffee FTW. Going to keep hammering at it and then maybe try to get a quick power nap in before the test.

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Rootstonian

I hope the REAL test follows the objective percentages outlined on Microsoft's site.

For example, Network Monitoring, File/Print sharing SHOULD BE about 28% of the test. On a 45 question test, you SHOULD get about 12 questions on those 2 objectives.

I get maybe 1 or 2 on the MeasureUps (and I've done A LOT of them over the last 6 hours)!

I don't know what kind of randomizer MeasureUp is using, but I'm getting 90% of questions on IP, DHCP, DNS, Remote Networking. And that's fine, but if MS is going to say 28% of a test is this AND this, then a practice (and REAL) exam should reflect that IMO.

aaronchristenson

Well sounds like you got everything covered. I am sure that you will do fine. I did 70-648 that covered that exam. Let us know how it turns out.

Rootstonian

Well, that was a waste of $125

Violating NDA or not, there was not one fraggn' question on there that resembled anything from MeasureUp or from the books. This ain't your entry-level test. What a crock of ****.

Yeah, I'm pissed...Yeah, I know that it can be passed (90% of you guys are proof), but these questions were way out there.

Guess it's time to post the ole 13 years programming resume on Monster; at least I know I can do that. Probably will have to travel and do contract work, but at $80 to $100 an hour, I'll get by!

I won't even bother f'n with a retest. After this fiasco, IMO, you need about 3 or 4 months per book to pass (given no on-the-job experience). If ya'll are knocking these out with no experience and in a month or 2, my hats off to you.

Roots

P.S. FOR SALE: Microsoft Press MCITP 70-640, 70-642, 70-643 and 70-647; Only 642 book used; has all CD's (Server 2008, MeasureUp tests). Think I paid $140...private message me with an offer and you can have them.

Also have CCNA ICND1 and 2 books from CISCO...think I paid about $150...never touched. Make an offer; you could save a bunch of money

"Damn it Jim, I'm a computer programmer, not a network admin."

aaronchristenson

I know that you are upset right at this moment, but after a little bit you will realize what areas you were lacking in and refocus on those areas. I would hate to see you give up just after this exam. I have failed exams before and had to pay for retakes, I have been in your situation where you want to throw in the towel and move on to something else. After about a day or two I gather my senses and keep going. Use the free retake but this time get a good nights rest before the test.

Rootstonian

Thanks for the encouragement, but no thanks. I have 2 college degrees, 13 years computer programming experience and consider myself a very smart person.

These questions were so far out there (from what I studied, IMO) that it's not worth it...Exam Result? 300. Printers and File Sharing which I think was an easy topic, yeah right! Not on the Prometric test...0%!!!!!! Sorry, but that's BS if you ask me.

Like my more intelligent wife keeps telling me..."Fight the Battles that you Can Win". And I'll do that....because I write code; that's what I do

rsutton

I did the 70-640 and used 2 months of preparation time - I also have over 5 years experience as a sys admin. I also barely passed. Just saying, don't feel bad. It's not as much about being smart as it is about retention of a lot of stuff. I have the 70-642 scheduled for next month, I have been studying since December.

Sounds like you are doing OK as a programmer though, why the switch to sys admin?

Rootstonian

I do have a free-retake since I signed-up for the reintroduced voucher.

But, dang it, I don't know what to study. I went through entire MS Press book twice, no problems on the lessons. Probably took 20 MeasureUps (both lessons based and Certification Mode).

And, as others have probably lamented, I think it stinks that you're paying for a test and don't get a copy of it with the answers. That would be such a benefit. All I got was a lousy bar graph with no numbers or percents on it...just "Needs Development".

I can tell you this, I got a flat-out ZERO on File/Print Sharing. So, how does that tell you how hard the questions were?

Part of me wants to re-do it. And I don't mind studying, but when I'm getting questions (I wish these sites were more flexible about posting exam questions or scenarios) that I know for a fact were not covered in the book.

It's like taking an Algebra class and getting a Calculus test. I'm not trying to whine; I'll do the legwork...but don't **** me

broc

Don't you think the fact that you stayed up all night to study can be a factor to you failing badly?

Me personally, I tend to take it easy the night before an exam, go to the cinema or just chill out. Not getting any sleep is not going to help you and you will end up tired and second guessing yourself during the exam.

I passed the 642 only a few weeks ago and I thought the questions were fairly accurate compared to the blueprint. Now networking is not a small field nor it is easy, you can't just walk in and expect to pass the exam like that.

Have you set up a lab at home? Have you practice at all with a small W2k8 network?

alokin123

Rootstonian wrote: »

I do have a free-retake since I signed-up for the reintroduced voucher.

But, dang it, I don't know what to study. I went through entire MS Press book twice, no problems on the lessons. Probably took 20 MeasureUps (both lessons based and Certification Mode).

And, as others have probably lamented, I think it stinks that you're paying for a test and don't get a copy of it with the answers. That would be such a benefit. All I got was a lousy bar graph with no numbers or percents on it...just "Needs Development".

I can tell you this, I got a flat-out ZERO on File/Print Sharing. So, how does that tell you how hard the questions were?

Part of me wants to re-do it. And I don't mind studying, but when I'm getting questions (I wish these sites were more flexible about posting exam questions or scenarios) that I know for a fact were not covered in the book.

It's like taking an Algebra class and getting a Calculus test. I'm not trying to whine; I'll do the legwork...but don't **** me

The problem with the measureup questions that come with the mspress book is that they are not a real representation of the exam. They are more to test your knowledge of concepts covered in the relevant chapters.
If you are serious, get the selftest/ transcender exam and you will actually be reading questions that will reflect the real exam question type. I remember when i did my 70-642 exam i was very surprised as to how closely transcender's questions were to the real thing.

Having said that, what you need to remember about this and other MS exams is that its as much about testing your knowledge as it is a reading test. You need to ask yourself, what is the question really asking? Read over the question as many times as you need to and you should always be able to eliminate at least 1 if not 2 answers straight away.

BradH

broc wrote: »

Don't you think the fact that you stayed up all night to study can be a factor to you failing badly?

Me personally, I tend to take it easy the night before an exam, go to the cinema or just chill out. Not getting any sleep is not going to help you and you will end up tired and second guessing yourself during the exam.

I passed the 642 only a few weeks ago and I thought the questions were fairly accurate compared to the blueprint. Now networking is not a small field nor it is easy, you can't just walk in and expect to pass the exam like that.

Have you set up a lab at home? Have you practice at all with a small W2k8 network?

I have to agree with the staying up all night part. You simply were not ready to take this exam. The sections on NAP...as an example are difficult and you cannot in my opinion learn them just from any practice exam or book. You have to do those in the MS Virtual labs or at home. Took me days to get my head around that.
I studied for over 1 month for this exam and then 2 very intensive study weeks just before it. It's a hard exam but a very good one to get under your belt.

Look at Claymores revision topics on 642. They also helped. Lots of MS Virtual labs to complete which assist so much.

Rootstonian

LOL...I got my highest score on "Configuring Network Access"

But if the questions aren't in a book that I can read, how is anything going to help. Just pray that a Transcender questions pops up on the Prometric test?

Even if I re-studied and passed 642, 640 (AD) is next. Kind of scares me that a poster above said they have 5 years experience and "barely passed" 640

I've got a better chance to get back into programming than a Sys Admin position. I sent my resume to a couple of Consulting firms and have it posted on Monster. I know that if I get contract work programming in my field, minimum pay is $50 an hour, usually with a 4-day workweek. I could work 6 months out of a year and be ok financially

We'll see...the voucher program is good till 6.30.2010; so I have some time.

And thanks for all the encouragement. And yes, I setup a lab at home with 3 servers and a Vista Business workstation and a Windows 7 workstation on the domain. Did every single lab section in the book (some <NAP>) more than once. And was I tired going in? Probably, but not completely out of it.

And I probably rushed the test itself as well as the study phase. Being out of work and bringing in $0 hurts (imagine my salary as a 13-year programming veteran

). So I was trying to do a book a month and either get MCTS or MCITP:SA as quickly as possible to get a new job.

I did not do any MS Virtual Labs and I'm not sure I understand what they are/do. But I'm willing to give them a go. And any other reading material vs. MS Press books? I do quite well with retention with regards to technical material; that is, if I read it 6 weeks ago, there's a good chance I'll have the memory on a test question. And I'll take a look at the Transcender stuff too.

Thanks again

Roots ain't out of it yet!

Rootstonian

And another thing...LOL

I wrote some of the LAN and WAN guys at my old job. These dudes are in charge of over 800 servers, 2 colleges, 200 departments and about 8,000 users. They've got file servers and applications servers with clustering and fault tolerance and fall (fail?) over and mail servers and database servers (Oracle and MS SQL) and web servers. Running Server 2003, Server 2008, IBM AIX. Last count I saw was over 500 wireless access points.

I told them about the test and 3 of the 3 said they probably would have just squeaked-by if not have failed. So are they tests some twisted person's making up the most mental masturbation questions possible:

You have 3 computers with 2 NIC's each. Computer A is hooked up to a router 1, Computer B is hooked up to router 2 and router 3 and Computer C is hooked up to router 4 with the following IP's (read all kinds of crazy subnets here in a table). No exhibit.

What do you do so Computer C can communicate with Computer A. Yeah, I got it. It's a "route - p add..." question. Unless you were on some drunken, acid filled setup, this configuration would never take place. "Real Life" question or "Mental Masturbation"? LOL

Yes, I'm still whining and no, life is not fair. But all I'm asking for is a fair shake and if MS Press is going to make books and be authors of questions, than make it all available for me to read.

Not: Solve... 3x^3 - 21y^3 over Square Root (16x^2) <Algebra Question>
Microsoft Prometric Question: What is the limit of above as x goes to 99? <Calculus Question>

Hell, I should go back to college for Masters in Mathematics...that was some fun stuff there! WOOT

marticus

I feel your pain. My first test towards an EA was the 70-642. I failed and was pissed too. The test was nothing like the book in my opinion. What I found helpful was when taking the MS study guide practice exams was to go to the web pages they referenced and study them. Technet was a good resource.

A+, Network+, CCNA, MCITP/EA

Rootstonian

Thanks...

Like I've bragged before, I've got some college degrees in programming. It's quite obvious in a college environment, you're not going to be writing Production-type programs; they are just laying a foundation. And, given my background, projects can take anywhere from 3 months to 2 years. Not going to be doing that in a semester! LOL Granted, I wrote some pretty sophisticated stuff in college, but it pales in comparison to what the real world has out there.

Yet, I found the certification testing to be quite the opposite...you're given (a very BASIC, in my opinion, foundation) and asked to build/solve Production-type problems.

And yes, they are quite forward on the webiste saying you should have 1 to 2 years experience in such and such environment. Ok, I see that now. Fine. WHAT ABOUT ENTRY LEVEL then?

It's really not clear on the MS hierarchy that really, a MCTS is not even close to entry level and I thought it was. Then, after MCTS, you go for SA (or EA).

What I HAVE learned, from college and my brief experience with certs. is that passing either with a 700 or 1000 or having a 2.0 vs. 4.0 GPA means 1 thing: you're good at passing tests. It's the "on-the-job" experience that really matters; egro, back to programming for me; "it's my density" ROFL

Config

Why would the free questions that you get with the book be the same questions used in the actual tests? Most MS exams are reading tests, first eliminate what is obviously wrong then use your knowledge/experience to chose out of the reminder. Anyway good luck should you try the exam again, you should check out the client certs as those deal with more entry level stuff.

MentholMoose

Rootstonian wrote: »

And yes, they are quite forward on the webiste saying you should have 1 to 2 years experience in such and such environment. Ok, I see that now. Fine. WHAT ABOUT ENTRY LEVEL then?

It's really not clear on the MS hierarchy that really, a MCTS is not even close to entry level and I thought it was. Then, after MCTS, you go for SA (or EA).

MCTS certs aren't necessarily entry level, as you've learned, afterall MCITP certs (including SA and EA) are comprised of MCTS exams and only one "Pro" exam each. The MCITP certs are mapped to jobs, so the entry level certs are mapped to entry level jobs. So on this page, Microsoft Learning: Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP), the entry level certs would be the ones under Windows Client (though I still wouldn't say they are easy).

The 642 exam is fairly broad, and IMO isn't a good starting point for someone new to systems and network administration. Luckily when I took it I had just renewed my CCNA, so I was able to skim most of the material about networking concepts.

Without that, I would have studied much more than I did.

Rootstonian wrote: »

You have 3 computers with 2 NIC's each. Computer A is hooked up to a router 1, Computer B is hooked up to router 2 and router 3 and Computer C is hooked up to router 4 with the following IP's (read all kinds of crazy subnets here in a table). No exhibit.

What do you do so Computer C can communicate with Computer A. Yeah, I got it. It's a "route - p add..." question. Unless you were on some drunken, acid filled setup, this configuration would never take place. "Real Life" question or "Mental Masturbation"? LOL

The point of weird scenarios is to test your understanding of the concepts rather than how well you memorized command syntax. For example, instead of having a scenario-based question to test route creation, imagine there was this question:

What's the command to add a persistent route on a client with IP 10.0.1.10 to subnet 10.0.0.0/24 via a router with IP 10.0.1.5?
A) route -p add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.1.5

route /Persistent add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.1.5
C) route -p add 10.0.0.0/24 10.0.1.5
D) route -p add 10.50.253.16 mask 255.255.255.240 172.23.3.75

Virtually anyone who has ever taken a multiple choice exam on any subject can eliminate D (D is always wrong anyway

), so A, B, and C are the kinds of answers that would be required, otherwise the question would be pointlessly easy. However, this question would only test how well people have memorized command syntax, which is lame and not the point of the exam. The real-world applicability of this question is probably even less than the crazy scenario since to get the syntax you would just type "route /?" without having to think. You would probably do this anyway, just to be sure, to avoid breaking something on a potentially important server (or in the case of a script, perhaps 10,000 important servers).

Now for this question, they could change A to something like "route add 10.0.0.0 -p mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.1.5"... hmm, now what to choose, the syntax of A is now wrong (based on "route /?"), but does it work? This would go beyond syntax memorization and actually test if candidates actually have used the route command. But, that would just be evil!

Rootstonian

Yeah, it's a tough test and my frist one...didn't know what to expect.

Does anyone know of a book that is more "lab based" and would present challenges similar to the tests? Like I said, I don't mind doing the legwork, But, I know for a fact at least 10 questions on that exam WERE NOT covered in the book.

broc

Stop looking for a book and do some work on your lab. You will never find a book for any exam which is going to cover everything in details, you're always going to find some questions on subject you never encountered before (either in a book or during real life).

But the more you actually use the technology, the more you will have enough knowledge to figure out the answers to the questions on subject you are not familiar with.

On most questions, either I know the answers before I read the multiple choice or if I don't know, I start by eliminating the obviously wrong answers, it's often easier that finding the right one.

You have no experience in networking so you have to expect that you're going to have to put in more work than people who work with the technology everyday!

If you still want to read more, have a look at Technet and read a few articles and howtos.

MentholMoose

There are some good labs here:
TechNet Virtual Labs

Rootstonian

I like books

And I think I shot myself in the foot, because I think the answers ARE in the book, I just stopped doing them for some reason. Not the lesson questions or practices, but the "Case Scenarios" and "Suggested Practices"!

Just looked at the Suggested Practice for DSN; yep, looks very similar to a test question.

Time to light the fires and smoke the tires on my virtual lab!! :)Woot:)

I had the "lab" on one physical box and 2 virutal servers on another PC; it was kind of confusing. I think this time I'll just setup all the Servers on the Quad Core, 4g RAM and access them from this PC; it's the fastest, most ram equipped box I have. Except some of the labs want you to use 2 nics (one to public, one to internal). Not sure if that's possible on a virtual machine. I think it was for setting up PC as a router (IMO, that chapter needs removed; who sets up a server as a router these days??).

Actually, I may put all the servers on my lappy... it's a dual core with 4 gig ram running Windows 7 (the quad core box has Vista Home Premium and sucks up more ram). Another benefit, I can take my "lab" anywhere in the house or away from home (not like I need the Internet to have the lab) Double Woot; I'm getting excited about this again

Put three copies of vanilla Server 2008 on it and run an image copy of the lappy. Then, whatever setups I do or need to change, I can always go back to a clean install.

MentholMoose

Rootstonian wrote: »

I like books

And I think I shot myself in the foot, because I think the answers ARE in the book, I just stopped doing them for some reason. Not the lesson questions or practices, but the "Case Scenarios" and "Suggested Practices"!

Just looked at the Suggested Practice for DSN; yep, looks very similar to a test question.

Time to light the fires and smoke the tires on my virtual lab!! :)Woot:)

That's a good choice, doing labs is really necessary to understand the material. Remember the exams are written with the assumption that test candidates have hands on experience.

Rootstonian wrote: »

I had the "lab" on one physical box and 2 virutal servers on another PC; it was kind of confusing. I think this time I'll just setup all the Servers on the Quad Core, 4g RAM and access them from this PC; it's the fastest, most ram equipped box I have. Except some of the labs want you to use 2 nics (one to public, one to internal). Not sure if that's possible on a virtual machine. I think it was for setting up PC as a router (IMO, that chapter needs removed; who sets up a server as a router these days??).

You can have multiple NICs in a VM. Using a Windows server solely for routing isn't that common, but there are various scenarios that including routing functionality, including VPN gateways and web proxies.

Rootstonian wrote: »

Actually, I may put all the servers on my lappy... it's a dual core with 4 gig ram running Windows 7 (the quad core box has Vista Home Premium and sucks up more ram). Another benefit, I can take my "lab" anywhere in the house or away from home (not like I need the Internet to have the lab) Double Woot; I'm getting excited about this again

Put three copies of vanilla Server 2008 on it and run an image copy of the lappy. Then, whatever setups I do or need to change, I can always go back to a clean install.

It should work OK, but the laptop hard drive will be a limiting factor. Another option is to enable RDP or other remote access tools on VMs on your server and access them remotely on your laptop.

Rootstonian

For a laptop, it has a decent HD: 160 gig.

I put 2 copies of Server 2008 in Virtual Machines. Not too much in the book required 3 servers, so I think I'll be ok.

helios

Rootstonian wrote: »

Well, that was a waste of $125

Violating NDA or not, there was not one fraggn' question on there that resembled anything from MeasureUp or from the books. This ain't your entry-level test. What a crock of ****.

I went through the same thing for 70-646. I read the book, was getting high 80%/low 90% on MeasureUp, but got 600-something on the actual exam...

Within the first 5 or so questions, I'd already accepted the fact that I studied for a completely different exam...

topper24501

Rootstonian wrote: »

For a laptop, it has a decent HD: 160 gig.

I put 2 copies of Server 2008 in Virtual Machines. Not too much in the book required 3 servers, so I think I'll be ok.

Root,

Have you ever thought about using CBT nuggets? I used them in the 83-640 alongside the MS Press book. It helped tremendously with the labs in the book.

I'm studying for the 70-642 now and I just got the Nuggets. I normally view them after I finish a chapter to followup on what I learn.

This is just a suggestion that helped me tremendously with the 83-640. I passed with a 933/1000. ( I also had some luck/ not so hard tasks for the labs/ and alot of study. I studied for 2 months 4 hours a day[reading\lab-work].)

Note: I had some experience with AD by working for NMCI T2 but not on th level of GPOs, DNS, Certificate Authority, Schema. It was more troubleshooting hardware/software, shares, permissions, services. So, i'm not a totally new to AD but I felt like a noobie when it came to the more in depth.

Hopefully you can get access to the Cbt nuggets b/c they really do make a difference if you can see what a knowledgeable person is doing.

Good Luck, hopefully we both pass this exam.

Rootstonian

Just watched a "free" nugget on NAP; it was quite informative. However, 70.642 series is $300. You get like 26 videos which is not too expensive, but $300 is still money we can't spend now.

I think I'll just reset my network up and try to do as many lab sims as possible

poguy

so if u have CCNA then it should be fine? but CCNA doesn't deal with IPV6, is there a lot of ipv6 question??
thanks

MentholMoose wrote: »

MCTS certs aren't necessarily entry level, as you've learned, afterall MCITP certs (including SA and EA) are comprised of MCTS exams and only one "Pro" exam each. The MCITP certs are mapped to jobs, so the entry level certs are mapped to entry level jobs. So on this page, Microsoft Learning: Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP), the entry level certs would be the ones under Windows Client (though I still wouldn't say they are easy).

The 642 exam is fairly broad, and IMO isn't a good starting point for someone new to systems and network administration. Luckily when I took it I had just renewed my CCNA, so I was able to skim most of the material about networking concepts. Without that, I would have studied much more than I did.

The point of weird scenarios is to test your understanding of the concepts rather than how well you memorized command syntax. For example, instead of having a scenario-based question to test route creation, imagine there was this question:

What's the command to add a persistent route on a client with IP 10.0.1.10 to subnet 10.0.0.0/24 via a router with IP 10.0.1.5?
A) route -p add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.1.5
route /Persistent add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.1.5
C) route -p add 10.0.0.0/24 10.0.1.5
D) route -p add 10.50.253.16 mask 255.255.255.240 172.23.3.75

Virtually anyone who has ever taken a multiple choice exam on any subject can eliminate D (D is always wrong anyway ), so A, B, and C are the kinds of answers that would be required, otherwise the question would be pointlessly easy. However, this question would only test how well people have memorized command syntax, which is lame and not the point of the exam. The real-world applicability of this question is probably even less than the crazy scenario since to get the syntax you would just type "route /?" without having to think. You would probably do this anyway, just to be sure, to avoid breaking something on a potentially important server (or in the case of a script, perhaps 10,000 important servers).

Now for this question, they could change A to something like "route add 10.0.0.0 -p mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.1.5"... hmm, now what to choose, the syntax of A is now wrong (based on "route /?"), but does it work? This would go beyond syntax memorization and actually test if candidates actually have used the route command. But, that would just be evil!