Linux Start point

DevilWAH

Hi,

I have installed a few LINUX distributions, and done a little apache configuration, but I am far from being a Linux expert (or even user)

Seeing as I need a new webserver, I was going to build a box from scratch(ish)

What is the process for doing this and what would i need?

I can kind of find my way around linux now, but I need to learn the instulation processes and get a better grasp of the CLI. What would peope suggest aas a good clean basic distribution of Linux to build from?

Cheers

disi

Minimalistic, Custom -> Gentoo

It also has a very good documentation on how to install the system:
Gentoo Linux Documentation -- Gentoo Handbook

//edit: if you don't want to compile anything, try Archlinux. Also very minimalistic and customizable: http://www.archlinux.org/

RobertKaucher

Well, for what you are describing I would choose either CentOS or Ubuntu Server.

UnixGuy

Go with any book or website that gives u step by step procedure to build it. Distros shouldn't matter right now...go with RHEL 5, SUSSE, or Ubuntu...APACHE is apache, distor shouldn't matter to you now

dynamik

This is a popular site that I see thrown out often: Quick HOWTO: Linux Home Networking and Linux Forums Help

ally_uk

There are few ways to setup a Linux Server, there are a few graphical tools out there that try and make the administration process easier.

Webmin
Ebox

However I recommend learning the CLI and doing everything through the command line, I understand that being new to Linux can be very daunting. I can relate I have spent hours trawling through documentation, reading guides and reading books that I have purchased which clearly state they are for beginners but the only thing I seem to gain is a massive headache.

My distro of choice is Ubuntu so it was logical to go with Ubuntu server, I joined the Ubuntu forums and posted up what I was trying to achieve for me the starting point was simple, create shares between Linux and Windows 7, This would get me small exposure to the CLI and the basics of setting up Samba.

I posted up what I was trying to achieve and within 30mins was given a wealth of information and links to help me do this.

So with that task completed, I will document how I did it so I can use the knowledge in the future or to help others.

I am not to familar with Apache, or Web servers that willl come in good time but I suggest maybe joining ubuntu forums, the users are really freindly just outline what you are trying to get running,

I also have decided to join my local Linux User Group which basically is a small group of Linux gods who get together on a monthly basis you can bring a box to the meet and they will basically show you how to do stuff. Might be worth checking out if a similar group runs in your area.

Hope This Helps don't give up I know it is very daunting but take baby steps and break everything down and you will get it.

veritas_libertas

dynamik wrote: »

This is a popular site that I see thrown out often: Quick HOWTO: Linux Home Networking and Linux Forums Help

Nice find!

dynamik

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Nice find!

Mishra deserves the credit

JockVSJock

dynamik wrote: »

This is a popular site that I see thrown out often: Quick HOWTO: Linux Home Networking and Linux Forums Help

Awesome URL Dynamic.

Here is a pretty good forum, very active:

LinuxQuestions.org

DevilWAH

My jorney so far..

www.devilwah.com (you can see I am a web designer cant you ... LOL )

but to be honest I was more intrested in learning about mutiply virtual host names than the contents.

next step is getting postfix up and running. and ftp access for updating the websites.
I also need to look more closley are the network seting side of things

I think I might well look up a local Linux group ally_uk, be nice to get some other ideas about what I am getting up to.

But its all starting to make sence now

once again cheers for the pointers and ideas.

GeeLo

You can do a lot with Linux.. Like anything.. it takes some reading.. but look at this. My boss gave me a old Pentium 3, and after cleaning all of the dust out of it, I installed Ubuntu on 2, 10 GB hard drives. This workstation only has 256 MB of memory, and a 8 MB AGP card. I used Apache for the HTTP server.

http://linux.myeffect.net


Very Happy!

earweed

Nice. Didn't know you could do that much with so little.

GeeLo

earweed wrote: »

Nice. Didn't know you could do that much with so little.

Thanks.. oh yes.. with Linux you can, because Linux uses way less resources. Older computers can be very useful. There are many distributions of Linux, and possibly many of which that are "better" then Ubuntu for older computers. There is also my different versions of Unix out there as well that Linux is based from. I like Ubuntu because it is fairly easy to install and has a wide community support base.

Sorry DevilWAH, I didn't mean to jack your thread..

Forsaken_GA

It largely depends on what you want it to do. When you run a server as a LAMP stack and then run some really bloated PHP code on it, and then throw more than 5 users at it.... you'll start to see some slowdown. Many a server has suffered the slashdot effect.

Now with that being said, you'll get better performance out of a unix based web server than you will out of a windows based web server just because the unix based server is unlikely to have all the other bloat that comes along with it.

I remember having to explain to one customer why his server was dying when he moved his dev site to live... he was using ffmpeg to generate thumbnails of his videos on the fly... on every single hit to the page. It works fine when you're the only one working on it. When 5000 people are doing it at once, not so much.

These days, it's all pretty easy to get a site up and running. Virtual Hosting in apache is simple, just look at the format of a virtual host container and copy/paste it to others and change the relevant portions (documentroot, logfile, etc). If you're going to be using the same IP for multiple sites, declare a NameVirtualHost directive for that IP (this tells apache that multiple sites will be using the IP, and that it should steer traffic based on the hostname in the request, not on the destination IP). Just be aware that SSL doesn't play nice when it comes to shared IP's

GeeLo

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

It largely depends on what you want it to do. When you run a server as a LAMP stack and then run some really bloated PHP code on it, and then throw more than 5 users at it.... you'll start to see some slowdown. Many a server has suffered the slashdot effect.

Now with that being said, you'll get better performance out of a unix based web server than you will out of a windows based web server just because the unix based server is unlikely to have all the other bloat that comes along with it.

I remember having to explain to one customer why his server was dying when he moved his dev site to live... he was using ffmpeg to generate thumbnails of his videos on the fly... on every single hit to the page. It works fine when you're the only one working on it. When 5000 people are doing it at once, not so much.

These days, it's all pretty easy to get a site up and running. Virtual Hosting in apache is simple, just look at the format of a virtual host container and copy/paste it to others and change the relevant portions (documentroot, logfile, etc). If you're going to be using the same IP for multiple sites, declare a NameVirtualHost directive for that IP (this tells apache that multiple sites will be using the IP, and that it should steer traffic based on the hostname in the request, not on the destination IP). Just be aware that SSL doesn't play nice when it comes to shared IP's

....So your saying.. stick with HTML / CSS, if your making a web site on Linux / Unix using Apache on a workstation, and add PHP / other to the mix if you have a Rack Mounted server ?

DevilWAH

World's Smallest Web Server

I remember when this was up ad running mad what you can do.

I have found out that I can't continue on the Webserver track for a while

I have to figure out how to set up one of these..

DesktopGrid - BOINC - Trac

we are going to try to implement this at our company... hope to end up running it over about 500 desk tops + for running mathematic modelling. But I said I would try to get the server side up and running so the modeling guys can look how to port there applications to it.

Forsaken_GA

GeeLo wrote: »

....So your saying.. stick with HTML / CSS, if your making a web site on Linux / Unix using Apache on a workstation, and add PHP / other to the mix if you have a Rack Mounted server ?

No, I'm saying keep your intended audience in mind and don't overestimate your resources. Serving static content is relatively painless, and not that much of a resource hit. Once you add dynamic elements into it, the resource usage per hit goes way up. This is why a very large amount of popular sites that serve both static and dynamic content put something like lighttpd or nginx in front of apache and serve static content through that, and then proxy any dynamic requests to apache. (An example that members of this board are probably familiar with would be Penny Arcade, they use nginx on the front end)

I have lost count of the number of times I've had to explain to a customer that their whizbang website is pretty cool looking and all, but a single core with 1 gig of memory and IDE disks isn't going to hold up very long under the pressure of an internet flash mob, but they don't want to pay the cash for a beefier machine.

Then there are the guys who have a clue... one of customers called us up and said 'yeah, the website is going to be featured on Leno tonight, I need you to implement whatever you have to in order to make sure it's nice and smooth'. While it would have been nice to have more than 5 hours notice, we were able to get a couple more web servers up and running and into the load balancing mix before it aired.

DevilWAH

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

These days, it's all pretty easy to get a site up and running. Virtual Hosting in apache is simple, just look at the format of a virtual host container and copy/paste it to others and change the relevant portions (documentroot, logfile, etc). If you're going to be using the same IP for multiple sites, declare a NameVirtualHost directive for that IP (this tells apache that multiple sites will be using the IP, and that it should steer traffic based on the hostname in the request, not on the destination IP). Just be aware that SSL doesn't play nice when it comes to shared IP's

Yer I was quite impressed how easy this was to set up, in fact considering how little I have used Linux before I was impressed I could from a bare mettle system, get a website up and running in little more than an hour.. the only trouble I have is keep wanting to do a "wr" to save the config. and now I keep going to type "ls" on my routers and switches to list commands LOL

In terms of implementing web-servers, just like anything else you should be running a few test scripts to simulate different amounts of users / types of traffic. Monitering the resource usage, and plotting a few graphs to work out the server limits. The other thing of course coming in which is great for scalability is Virtuliation, Being able to shift server resources around so they are used where needed is great. But again it all comes down to knowing what you are running and how you implement it.

GeeLo

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Then there are the guys who have a clue... one of customers called us up and said 'yeah, the website is going to be featured on Leno tonight, I need you to implement whatever you have to in order to make sure it's nice and smooth'. While it would have been nice to have more than 5 hours notice, we were able to get a couple more web servers up and running and into the load balancing mix before it aired.

Nice