Cert path for Database Management.

importantbrian

I am new to the industry, but I have some experience with simple databases (access, etc.) that I picked up while working a non-tech job. I know that this is the path I would like to pursue. I am going to be starting a mscis degree soon, and will be taking the database concentration. While I am working on my degree I would like to begin to get some experience in the field (I currently work in retail management). I was wondering if you could give me some advice on which certs might help me to land an entry level job in a database environment. I was thinking about skipping the standard A+, Network+ certs and jumping in and doing something database related like the MCTS: SQL Server 2008, I&M on my way to MCITP:DBA, and then doing the OCA. Should I also pick up some things like Linux+, or CCNA just to be well rounded, or should I go ahead and get the A+, Net+?

I apologize for this post being so long. If any of you are still reading any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

veritas_libertas

Hopefully this helps a little.

Database Administrators: It?s All in a Day?s Work - Certification Magazine

dynamik

Certifications don't carry as much weight in the database world as they do in others. Oracle will get you into higher-end work than MS.

Bl8ckr0uter

dynamik wrote: »

Certifications don't carry as much weight in the database world as they do in others. Oracle will get you into higher-end work than MS.

A buddy of mine is working as a DBA. He is a OCP with several years of exp (also has a BS degree). He is making 6 figures and he told me that it would be much more difficult to get to that level if he was a MS dba. Oracle is the way to go but be prepared to learn a lot about storage and unix as well. Learning some development will help make you more valuable.

importantbrian

Is there any particular reason certs aren't as big for DBAs?

I'm glad to know that Oracle is the higher paying of the two since Oracle is the DB used for my classes and is what I will be most familiar with when I graduate. Is it better to just focus on one vendor OCA -> OCP, or would having both MS and Oracle make you more valuable because you can work in an environment where they possibly have more than one system.

eMeS

Oracle---IBM---Microsoft

In that order, in the database world, with Oracle holding more of the market than the other two combined.

The higher level Oracle certifications require that you attend the actual Oracle classes, whereas the IBM and Microsoft database certifications can be earned completely through self-study.

MS

dynamik

I don't really have a good answer for you. Maybe they're just not marketed as well, maybe people in that niche prefer experience. It's the same on the *nix side of things.

I'd still encourage you to go after them because you'll learn a lot along the way. I'm not trying to discourage you, but you should have realistic expectations what they'll do for you.

Having some MS knowledge might compliment a solid Oracle background if you need to migrate off of it, or maybe break into the industry in smaller environments. I don't think it's too common for an organization to be heavily utilizing both MS and Oracle (or other higher-end database product).

Bl8ckr0uter

dynamik wrote: »

Having some MS knowledge might compliment a solid Oracle background if you need to migrate off of it, or maybe break into the industry in smaller environments. I don't think it's too common for an organization to be heavily utilizing both MS and Oracle (or other higher-end database product).

This^

The guy who I was talking about in my other post started off small (access database and development) then moved from there (sql server then oracle) and he hasn't looked back. I think dba work can be very very difficult to break into (much like *nix work) but unlike other niche markets your average sys admin might not ever get into certain aspects of dba work.

importantbrian

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Hopefully this helps a little.

Database Administrators: It?s All in a Day?s Work - Certification Magazine

In the article they recommend the CIW Database Design Specialist as a good foundation cert. I have heard mixed things about the value of the CIW certs though. Is this a good place to start for and entry-level position before tackling the Oracle certs?

I've heard, and some of you have stated here, that the database field is very difficult to break into, and I'm trying to find the best way to get my foot in the door.

RobertKaucher

The DBA world is divided into two general types:
1. Production DBAs
2. Developer DBAs

There is a lot of overlap. But production DBA has more in common with a sys admin. Server work, Active Directory, permissions, etc. A Developer DBA will be involved in writing high level SQL code and assisting in development projects. A developer DBA needs to be a good intermediate developer in a language like C# or VB.Net *AND* an expert in T-SQL.

If you are looking to go the developer DBA route there is not much that I can suggest other than learning C# or VB.Net and hitting the books with SQL Server. If you are interested in the Production DBA route then I suggest this as your cert path:

A+/Net+/Server+ - Study the material. Taking the certs is probably not worthwhile.

Study for and earn the MCITP: Server Administrator certification
Learn about shared storage.

Read this article:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Miscellaneous/howtobeagooddbastrategyandtactics/1302/

Read the following Books:
* Beginning SQL, Wilton
* Professional SQL Server 2008 Administration
* SQL Server 2008 Administration: Real World Skills for MCITP Certification and Beyond (Not yet released but the 2005 version is great)
* Professional SQL Server 2008 Internals and Troubleshooting
* Some sort of prep for the MCTS

MCTS: SQL Server
* Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Internals
* Prep for the Pro exam
Reread http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Miscellaneous/howtobeagooddbastrategyandtactics/1302/

Start getting involved in SQL Server community. Join a users’ group in your area. The important this is that you get out and have your face seen and make some contacts.

MCITP DBA 2008

Read the following books:
* Microsoft SQL Server 2008 T-SQL Fundamentals
* SQL Server 2008 T-SQL Recipes
* Inside Microsoft SQL Server 2008: T-SQL Querying

Take the MCTS for database developer. I say this because I think the MCTS has valuable info even for a production DBA.

RobertKaucher

importantbrian wrote: »

...
I've heard, and some of you have stated here, that the database field is very difficult to break into, and I'm trying to find the best way to get my foot in the door.

This is what your career plan is for. If you start down the production DBA path I suggest you start off getting a job at a company that uses SQL Server. Maybe you are just a regular server admin there, but get hired and make a name for yourself as responsible, knowledgeable and helpful. Then start talking to the DBAs. Ask then questions about their jobs and ask if you can help with any basic tasks like auditing event logs or backups, etc. If a Jr. level DBA position opens apply for it.

If that does not work out, then try to get a position as a Server Admin, who may not be a DBA in name, but who manages some SQL Servers.
Focus your skills and time on really learning about SQL Server and do some projects that increase availability, performance, etc. After some time doing this begin looking for a position where your primary jon role is SQL Server.

It is hard to break into because it is a job role that is essential to the company. No one is going to hire a person w/o out experience as even a minor error by a DBA might cost thousands of dollars. A major error might put a company out of business.

importantbrian

RobertKaucher wrote: »

The DBA world is divided into two general types:
1. Production DBAs
2. Developer DBAs

There is a lot of overlap. But production DBA has more in common with a sys admin. Server work, Active Directory, permissions, etc. A Developer DBA will be involved in writing high level SQL code and assisting in development projects. A developer DBA needs to be a good intermediate developer in a language like C# or VB.Net *AND* an expert in T-SQL.

If you are looking to go the developer DBA route there is not much that I can suggest other than learning C# or VB.Net and hitting the books with SQL Server. If you are interested in the Production DBA route then I suggest this as your cert path:

A+/Net+/Server+ - Study the material. Taking the certs is probably not worthwhile.

Study for and earn the MCITP: Server Administrator certification
Learn about shared storage.

Read this article:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Miscellaneous/howtobeagooddbastrategyandtactics/1302/

Read the following Books:
* Beginning SQL, Wilton
* Professional SQL Server 2008 Administration
* SQL Server 2008 Administration: Real World Skills for MCITP Certification and Beyond (Not yet released but the 2005 version is great)
* Professional SQL Server 2008 Internals and Troubleshooting
* Some sort of prep for the MCTS

MCTS: SQL Server
* Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Internals
* Prep for the Pro exam
Reread http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Miscellaneous/howtobeagooddbastrategyandtactics/1302/

Start getting involved in SQL Server community. Join a users’ group in your area. The important this is that you get out and have your face seen and make some contacts.

MCITP DBA 2008

Read the following books:
* Microsoft SQL Server 2008 T-SQL Fundamentals
* SQL Server 2008 T-SQL Recipes
* Inside Microsoft SQL Server 2008: T-SQL Querying

Take the MCTS for database developer. I say this because I think the MCTS has valuable info even for a production DBA.

Thank you for laying that out. That will help immensely. I saw that you are currently working on the development certs. Do you do development now, or are you a production guy? What did your personal path look like?

RobertKaucher

importantbrian wrote: »

Thank you for laying that out. That will help immensely. I saw that you are currently working on the development certs. Do you do development now, or are you a production guy? What did your personal path look like?

My path is pretty similar to the one I wrote up there. I am currently doing the upgrade exam for SQL Server 2008. I have the MCITP:DBA 2005 cert.

I am at company where one of mu primary roles is SQL Server. I spent all day today doing various queries for people, dealing with a SQL server with a system drive that has very little free space, and getting bids for a potential replacement. But on other days it's updating PCs, checking error logs on the Exchange server, creating a SharePoint library, etc.

My goal is that I will leverage the SQL experience here into a DBA spot after about 6 months to a year. Right now I am working on my certifications just as a way to measure my own progress and stay sharp. As Dynamik mentioned certs are not a big deal in the DBA world. I think that is just a matter of culture. I either have read or am currently studying the books I suggested.

importantbrian

RobertKaucher wrote: »

The DBA world is divided into two general types:
1. Production DBAs
2. Developer DBAs

There is a lot of overlap. But production DBA has more in common with a sys admin. Server work, Active Directory, permissions, etc. A Developer DBA will be involved in writing high level SQL code and assisting in development projects. A developer DBA needs to be a good intermediate developer in a language like C# or VB.Net *AND* an expert in T-SQL.

If you are looking to go the developer DBA route there is not much that I can suggest other than learning C# or VB.Net and hitting the books with SQL Server. If you are interested in the Production DBA route then I suggest this as your cert path:

A+/Net+/Server+ - Study the material. Taking the certs is probably not worthwhile.

Study for and earn the MCITP: Server Administrator certification
Learn about shared storage.

Read this article:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Miscellaneous/howtobeagooddbastrategyandtactics/1302/

Read the following Books:
* Beginning SQL, Wilton
* Professional SQL Server 2008 Administration
* SQL Server 2008 Administration: Real World Skills for MCITP Certification and Beyond (Not yet released but the 2005 version is great)
* Professional SQL Server 2008 Internals and Troubleshooting
* Some sort of prep for the MCTS

MCTS: SQL Server
* Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Internals
* Prep for the Pro exam
Reread http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Miscellaneous/howtobeagooddbastrategyandtactics/1302/

Start getting involved in SQL Server community. Join a users’ group in your area. The important this is that you get out and have your face seen and make some contacts.

MCITP DBA 2008

Read the following books:
* Microsoft SQL Server 2008 T-SQL Fundamentals
* SQL Server 2008 T-SQL Recipes
* Inside Microsoft SQL Server 2008: T-SQL Querying

Take the MCTS for database developer. I say this because I think the MCTS has valuable info even for a production DBA.

For the A+, Net+, Server+ are there any books that you would recommend?

As far as the MCITP:SA is it better to take 640 or 642 first. Should I wait until I read through the A+, Net+, Sever+ material before I study for those exams or just jump right into the MS stuff? Are there any resources you would recommend for that?

cablegod

knwminus wrote: »

A buddy of mine is working as a DBA. He is a OCP with several years of exp (also has a BS degree). He is making 6 figures and he told me that it would be much more difficult to get to that level if he was a MS dba. Oracle is the way to go but be prepared to learn a lot about storage and unix as well. Learning some development will help make you more valuable.

Yep. Oracle DBA's typically are higher paid. Sad, but true. I've seen it time and time again. A strong background in Oracle, Unix/Linux,storage, along with tuning, is the ticket if you want to go places as a DBA.

I work with MySQL, SQL Server 2008, and Oracle on a daily basis. They all have their place. People try to compare them to each other, but I think that's a mistake. Each has it's own merits, each has it's own strengths & weaknesses.

In my eyes, and I know I am not alone:

Oracle is built for the REALLY HUGE stuff, where 100% uptime is not an option, where extreme/high performance with HUGE datasets is not an option.

SQL Server is good for medium sized datasets. I call it the "workhorse" production database.

MySQL is good for smaller datasets. It's good for quick-n-dirty, free, and flexibility.

Look at it this way, you need a database for Nagios/Cacti/inventory/etc. MySQL would be a great choice. Yes, Oracle and SQL Server will work too, but it's overkill. It's like putting a top fuel engine in a normal car.
You need a supported database for time management/time tracking/HR/etc. SQL Server would be a good choice there. You need support. It is semi-critical data. Oracle and MySQL would still work here, but is it entirely practical?
You need a database to run a huge e-commerce shopping website. You need to support 100,000+ concurrent shoppers, store order info, seconds of slowness mean lost revenue. Downtime is a disaster. It must run 24/7 and failover, as well as scale. Oracle with RAC with streams is your answer.
Yes, SQL Server can work, but SQL Server can't scale like Oracle. SQL has failover clustering, but it doesn't work like RAC does. Your three-node RAC cluster being overloaded? Add a 4th or 5th node with Infiniband cluster interconnects. Problem solved. Yes, it costs a LOT more, but you require it.

Different strokes for different folks.

I am not an Oracle fanboy, nor am I a SQL/MySQL basher. They all have their place. They all have their pros and cons. Knowing the difference can really make your life as a DBA easier.

importantbrian

cablegod wrote: »

Yep. Oracle DBA's typically are higher paid. Sad, but true. I've seen it time and time again. A strong background in Oracle, Unix/Linux,storage, along with tuning, is the ticket if you want to go places as a DBA.

What did your path look like? Did you start out in Oracle, or did you start somewhere else and then move into Oracle?

cablegod

importantbrian wrote: »

What did your path look like? Did you start out in Oracle, or did you start somewhere else and then move into Oracle?

I started with Oracle. It was "dropped" into my lap so-to-speak. I wouldn't recommend that to begin with though, but it is possible. I wish I could have started on MySQL, moved to SQL Server, then Oracle. MySQL and Oracle Enterprise is free for learning purposes. I've read Oracle's eula. It's in there. You can download it from Oracle's website after creating a free account.

For starting out, I highly recommend Tim Hall's blog at oracle-base.com

There's a lot of very good articles/installation walk-thru's posted.

RobertKaucher

cablegod wrote: »

I am not an Oracle fanboy, nor am I a SQL/MySQL basher. They all have their place. They all have their pros and cons. Knowing the difference can really make your life as a DBA easier.

This, I love!

It's so good to hear someone express a practical, middle-of the-road opinion on stuff like this.

@importantbrian - Whatever you decide to do, make sure you do things right. Don't rush forward into really advanced stuff before you are ready for it. Notice that both cablegod and I are urging a similar, incremental path. And I agree with his statement on MySQL, although I think you can pick up some basic Linux/MySQL skills (learn the LAMP) along with the MS stuff. Having a good foundation in SQL Server makes MySQl pretty easy for me. I have at least two servers running it on Linux at my current position. They both run non-critacal aps and I almost never have to mess with them, though.

I know from my own experience it is way too easy to bounce around from topic to topic and not learn much of anything.

I don't know your experience level, so I cannot make too many suggestions for the foundational stuff (A+,Net+,Server+). It may be just a refresher for you... But I would have had a VERY hard time on the MCITP: DBA 2005 exams w/o having studied for the Net+/Server+ and already had my MCSE. So build a firm, broad foundation.

cablegod

Thanks Robert. I've always "told it like it is". It's the only way I know how to do it

importantbrian

cablegod wrote: »

Yep. Oracle DBA's typically are higher paid. Sad, but true. I've seen it time and time again. A strong background in Oracle, Unix/Linux,storage, along with tuning, is the ticket if you want to go places as a DBA.

How much more do Oracle DBA's make? I've seen salary figures for experienced MCITP:DBAs and its not to shabby. Although some of those may be guys that hold an MCITP as well as an OCP and they actually work on Oracle. Who knows with those salary surveys.

importantbrian

RobertKaucher wrote: »

@importantbrian - Whatever you decide to do, make sure you do things right. Don't rush forward into really advanced stuff before you are ready for it. Notice that both cablegod and I are urging a similar, incremental path. And I agree with his statement on MySQL, although I think you can pick up some basic Linux/MySQL skills (learn the LAMP) along with the MS stuff. Having a good foundation in SQL Server makes MySQl pretty easy for me. I have at least two servers running it on Linux at my current position. They both run non-critacal aps and I almost never have to mess with them, though.

I know from my own experience it is way too easy to bounce around from topic to topic and not learn much of anything.

I don't know your experience level, so I cannot make too many suggestions for the foundational stuff (A+,Net+,Server+). It may be just a refresher for you... But I would have had a VERY hard time on the MCITP: DBA 2005 exams w/o having studied for the Net+/Server+ and already had my MCSE. So build a firm, broad foundation.

Kind of like being in college I guess. You have to take all the gen ed courses before you can move on to your major.

As far as experience level goes, I took an A+ class in school not to long ago. I just never took the test. So, that should just be an easy review. Net+ would probably be a little more intense for me, but I do have some experience with networking. Server+ would be the one I know the least about.

So incorporating your plan here is what I will probably plan to do.

Study the Net+, Server+. Maybe take the tests, but probably not. Try to have this done before I start my masters degree.

The networking classes for my degree use Windows Server 08. So I will try and study for and take 70-642, and 70-640 along side what I learn for the degree, and then possibly also take 70-646. I don't know how ambitious that is given the intensity of studying for a masters degree as well. At this point I will also start trying to find an entry-level position that allows me to earn some real world experience while I finish out my degree.

For the intro level DB class they allow you to use whatever DB you want for your projects. The projects are focused mostly on learning the SQL language and not the DBs themselves. I'll use SQL Sever 08 for this and try to study for and take 70-432 and hopefully 70-450. Hopefully this will allow me to move into a junior DBA roll.

The advanced DB classes use Oracle for the projects. So I will use this as an opportunity to study for the OCA. I may also try and look for a job where the company is migrating from SQL Server to Oracle to get some hands on experience with Oracle.

So by the time I finish my degree I will hopefully have earned the MCITP:SA, the MCITP:DBA, and the OCA as well as my masters degree plus gotten some hands on experience. I'm looking at about 24 months total for the degree. Let me know if I should shift anything around, or if I'm being way to ambitious trying to do those certs as well as the masters let me know which ones I should probably drop and finish after I get the degree.

phoeneous

cablegod wrote: »

It was "dropped" into my lap so-to-speak.

This happened to me with SQL and I will always be grateful for it. I don't meet very many MS Sysadmins that know SQL at a competent level. I picked up on t-sql very quickly. I prefer mostly to work with SSMS and produce raw data but knowing Visual Studio BITS and Reporting Services is useful too.

If you like cbt video training stuff, this site has a decent video library for basic relational dbase and SQL 05 stuff.

cablegod

importantbrian wrote: »

How much more do Oracle DBA's make? I've seen salary figures for experienced MCITP:DBAs and its not to shabby. Although some of those may be guys that hold an MCITP as well as an OCP and they actually work on Oracle. Who knows with those salary surveys.

I've seen Oracle DBA's range from $60's to $200k+ salary, and consultants from $60/hr to $600/hr. It all depends on the company, location, and stress level. Trust me, the higher the pay, the higher the stress level, and the higher the complexity of the environment. I'd think a safe average that I've seen regularly is ~$90k-$120k for a senior level Oracle DBA.