Thoughts on an MBA?

nel

I am seriously considering an MBA for my post grad studies. At the moment im just becoming too disillusioned with my career progression.

To give you abit low down abit myself: im 24 years old, worked in IT for nearly 8 years, 5 of which have been in a large corporate environment, currently at a bank. i am just about to complete my Bsc Hons (PT course) and are currently averaging a 1st but should get no lower than a 2:1 grading.

For the past 8 years i have been in a technical position and i know or would at least like to open the doors to manager/consultancy/architect high end based positions which is why i am drawn to the MBA rather than a Msc etc. The main reason i dont want to achieve a technical degree in my area is because this can be supplemented with other professional certs and based on the fact i dont want to be tied to a single area for my entire career.

Looking at the costs it more than clear i would be getting in debt at least £20K for tuition and living costs if i went full time depending on the course i take - more along the lines of £30K. As a result i think i would prefer to do the course PT which would allow me to minimise the debt incurred. i live/work in the edinburgh area (UK) and work prefer lecture based learning in Edinburgh. There are MBA courses ran at University of Edinburgh, Heriot-watt and Edinburgh Napier. Looking at the various rankings available UoE seems the most regarded course of the three, although Heriot watt has global recognition. At the moment it appears i am interested in Heriot watt and UoE.

So my questions:

1) has anyone had experiance of an MBA who works in IT and what did it do for you? - career potential, salary increase vs debt incurred etc

2) Also the uni's websites all state X amount of years experiance. Would the course be too difficult if one had no experiance in the management field?

3) from my background and future goals stated, do you think the MBA would hold true value in my career as i am looking for strong advancement potential. i am not looking for a piece of paper and want real value due to the time and financial investments. obviously i realise this will be cemented with actual experiance the same as other qualifications.

5) UoE offer scholarships which i am thinking about applying for to help with tuition costs which require an essay for the FT program. If i were to qualify for a £10K scholarship i would be tempted to do it FT. does anyone have any good tips for completing an application of such an essay?

6) from my research it appears only UoE is AMBA accredited. Is the accreditation really important to have when attempting to achieve an MBA.

Apologies for the long post but this is a very important decision due to the investment being made. i also feel its a pinacle point of my life and career which could shape it for better or worse and would very much appreciate any input given. i know nothing guarantees success but im willing to put the time and money into an MBA if it will help propel my career opportunities.

Lets hope i make the right choice eh! thanks for the responses in advance.

AlexMR

Try to get into a AACSB-accredited program/university. That is considered to be the highest accreditation for business schools and if you check around, you will see some of the best MBAs and b-schools have the accreditation.

I cant talk about specifics in IT and the MBA. In general I can tell you MBA graduates tell their MBAs either "made their careers" or really made a difference. The variation comes depending mostly of what MBA you get. That is way too iimportant and my advice, as I gave it to my syster who is in the process of admission to graduate school, is to get in the best program you can be admitted. Period. She has now a full schoolarship for a decent university in the USA. I am recommending her to try to get into one of the top 20 even if that means getting in debt. I am convinced the difference shows. I would rather have a 75k USD debt and an Ivy LEague, Indiana University or Stanford MBA than an MBA from w/e institution and no debt.

I saw a report the other day saying that top 10 business schools have a market share of about 40% in the Fortune 50 senior management, with HArvard Business School with 20% market share in the Fortune 25. That is really impressive imho.

If you are into management and consultancy, I dont think there are many better options than an MBA. In fact, I dont think there is one single best option than the MBA. As I said, I dont know how it plays out in the IT field, but with the huge necessity of alignment between business and IT, and the project management skills that are required in the field, I can only think it would be a great addition. An MBA somehow specialized in Project management should be an excellent choice.

The whole world is in need of managers.

GAngel

nel wrote: »

I am seriously considering an MBA for my post grad studies. At the moment im just becoming too disillusioned with my career progression.

To give you abit low down abit myself: im 24 years old, worked in IT for nearly 8 years, 5 of which have been in a large corporate environment, currently at a bank. i am just about to complete my Bsc Hons (PT course) and are currently averaging a 1st but should get no lower than a 2:1 grading.

For the past 8 years i have been in a technical position and i know or would at least like to open the doors to manager/consultancy/architect high end based positions which is why i am drawn to the MBA rather than a Msc etc. The main reason i dont want to achieve a technical degree in my area is because this can be supplemented with other professional certs and based on the fact i dont want to be tied to a single area for my entire career.

Looking at the costs it more than clear i would be getting in debt at least £20K for tuition and living costs if i went full time depending on the course i take - more along the lines of £30K. As a result i think i would prefer to do the course PT which would allow me to minimise the debt incurred. i live/work in the edinburgh area (UK) and work prefer lecture based learning in Edinburgh. There are MBA courses ran at University of Edinburgh, Heriot-watt and Edinburgh Napier. Looking at the various rankings available UoE seems the most regarded course of the three, although Heriot watt has global recognition. At the moment it appears i am interested in Heriot watt and UoE.

So my questions:

1) has anyone had experiance of an MBA who works in IT and what did it do for you? - career potential, salary increase vs debt incurred etc

2) Also the uni's websites all state X amount of years experiance. Would the course be too difficult if one had no experiance in the management field?


3) from my background and future goals stated, do you think the MBA would hold true value in my career as i am looking for strong advancement potential. i am not looking for a piece of paper and want real value due to the time and financial investments. obviously i realise this will be cemented with actual experiance the same as other qualifications.


5) UoE offer scholarships which i am thinking about applying for to help with tuition costs which require an essay for the FT program. If i were to qualify for a £10K scholarship i would be tempted to do it FT. does anyone have any good tips for completing an application of such an essay?


6) from my research it appears only UoE is AMBA accredited. Is the accreditation really important to have when attempting to achieve an MBA.


Apologies for the long post but this is a very important decision due to the investment being made. i also feel its a pinacle point of my life and career which could shape it for better or worse and would very much appreciate any input given. i know nothing guarantees success but im willing to put the time and money into an MBA if it will help propel my career opportunities.

Lets hope i make the right choice eh! thanks for the responses in advance.

1) I'll be doing mine from a top 10 school next sept. Career wise i'm already going where I want to be it won't make or break in the least. Salary is not a concern i'm doing it to switch industries. Debt wise it's a horrible move but something i'm doing for myself.

2) The experience required has nothing to do with the difficulty. The math involved is the same you'll find in any Bach of Bus admin course and if you have done the GMAT it's based off grade 10 math. I think it's a waste without already leading a team but to each there own.

3) At your age a masters from one of the top schools would probably put you further ahead than an mba because nobody is going to hire senior management at mid 20's. The masters with good grades will land you in consultancy,or on the management track. An MBA is just a piece of paper you've mastered nothing besides time management. Look at it from the hiring manager's perspective why should they choose you over someone who's been there done it and gotten results.

4) I've done enough to know there is no right answer. You have to be original and show them why you are different, why you'll be a success and why you want to go there.

5) Accrediation standards are different everywhere. In Europe alot of the top schools there are on EQUIS and now going for AACSB which takes years to gain. Doesn't make them less of schools and nobody thinks so either. If you're looking for a regional MBA to stay within the country then you find one with a good rep locally. If you want something recognized anywhere that's when you should start bing picky about accrediation What you should be worried about is the ability to network at the places you're considering. Knowing people is how you get anything in this crazy market.

If i were in your shoes I'd say wait 2 years get your grades as high as you can and go for one of the top schools FT. That give you time to save and a much better chance at landing the dream job. But at the end of the day it's your decision and only you can decide whats best for you mate.

nel

Thanks for the input guys.

I do realise however that if i were to do an MBA then i wouldnt be exactly landing a senior managers position in my mid 20's. I think im just trying to tick off the fact that its a post grad degree with some good business technique exposure which may come in handy later on in life.

has anyone got any first hand experiance on what an MBA has done for them?

NinjaBoy

You're in the UK. If you are thinking about a MBA, apart from the University of Edinburgh, the only other Uni that I know that has the accredited MBA is the OpenU.

While I don't have a MBA, and I'm not in a senior position. I can say that I am an IT manager (middle management), my highest academic award is the BSc, but I do have the Chartered Status (CITP) from the BCS.

I have been looking around at senior positions around my area (within driving distance) and most of them (if they do state academic qualifications) ask for a Masters level award, and not specifically the MBA/MSc or MA. So I'm also wondering the same thing as you. Depending on finances, in a few years time, I'll be considering either the MBA or the MSc in IT Management

-Ken

nel

NinjaBoy wrote: »

You're in the UK. If you are thinking about a MBA, apart from the University of Edinburgh, the only other Uni that I know that has the accredited MBA is the OpenU.

While I don't have a MBA, and I'm not in a senior position. I can say that I am an IT manager (middle management), my highest academic award is the BSc, but I do have the Chartered Status (CITP) from the BCS.

I have been looking around at senior positions around my area (within driving distance) and most of them (if they do state academic qualifications) ask for a Masters level award, and not specifically the MBA/MSc or MA. So I'm also wondering the same thing as you. Depending on finances, in a few years time, I'll be considering either the MBA or the MSc in IT Management

-Ken

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the input, its good to also see it from a managers perspective as this will be a qualification more beneficial in the long term i feel, regardless of which masters award i decide to go for.

Just for your info there are a ton of uni's which also do it as distance learning. Im not sure what the thoughts are on a distance learning MBA but Warwick univeristy do it and it has one of the best business schools in the UK for the MBA. From memory the course seemed reasonably priced too approx 17K if i remember.

Also, does anyone know how distance learning MBA's are looked upon in the business world? do they hold the same value as a taught program or typically less?

laidbackfreak

NinjaBoy wrote: »

but I do have the Chartered Status (CITP) from the BCS.

Ken how do you feel this has enhanced your resume ? I've toyed around with looking at the BCS several times, but cant see the worth yet :-/

Nel, just checked with the mrs (she works at one of the top uni's) and UoE is up there mate well worth going to anyways. Regardless of my opinin of degree's lol

pml1

Hi Nel, I'm in a similar situation as you. I had considered going after my MBA for a while, but for many of the reasons GAngel listed above, I'm going to pursue an MS first, and then try to get an MBA from a top-tier school later.

nel

pml1 wrote: »

Hi Nel, I'm in a similar situation as you. I had considered going after my MBA for a while, but for many of the reasons GAngel listed above, I'm going to pursue an MS first, and then try to get an MBA from a top-tier school later.

Ive toyed with that idea but to be honest i dont want to do 2 masters degree's due to the effort required and no doubt the high cost! preferably i would do one and be done with my university education

darkerosxx

To answer OP, I have a BBA majoring in Computer Information Systems. I'm working on my MBA now. Do you have an undergrad in business?

Having a bachelors in business will, in most cases, make an MBA next to pointless, except for the connections you can make in the program and mild improvements in areas that your undergrad may have slacked in.

Turgon

With an MBA you need to be careful about the school you study it at. Not all are respected. Add to which are you *ready* for an MBA? Historically it's a qualification to aspire to once you have *significant* management experience. You will be drawing on that in class and post MBA when you apply for jobs companies will want to see it on your CV.

NinjaBoy

laidbackfreak wrote: »

Ken how do you feel this has enhanced your resume ? I've toyed around with looking at the BCS several times, but cant see the worth yet :-/

I do believe that it's enhanced my CV. I've seen a few higher-level jobs (granted not alot, but then again it's "new" compared to CEng or CMgr) that have stated either the CITP was a requirement or desirable.

The CITP does have some advantages, eg this can't be braindumped, as you're assessed. Plus it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it

-Ken

Turgon

Honestly for the MBA unless things have changed you need serious management experience behind you before thinking about it. You only do one and you dont want to be paper with a designation like that..too many people are. There's a tendency to get hooked on the Aegis of the school where you take your MBA...yes recruitment agents will be impressed by that..so will HR weenies..but if you get the job you will have to start *managing* and without heavyweight experience in that, gilt edged by the MBA not only will your studies be compromised because you dont have the experiences to draw on in class, but your performance with the timeserved managers who are starry eyed at your MBA will be at risk because you haven't got the background.

This was drummed into us at University in 1990. You want MBA? Have significant experience at a managerial level within organisations. Maybe things have changed I dont know.

nel

darkerosxx wrote: »

To answer OP, I have a BBA majoring in Computer Information Systems. I'm working on my MBA now. Do you have an undergrad in business?

Having a bachelors in business will, in most cases, make an MBA next to pointless, except for the connections you can make in the program and mild improvements in areas that your undergrad may have slacked in.

No my undergrad is in Network Computing at Bsc Hons level (4 years). i have no previous business admin experiance in my studies.

nel

Turgon wrote: »

Honestly for the MBA unless things have changed you need serious management experience behind you before thinking about it. You only do one and you dont want to be paper with a designation like that..too many people are. There's a tendency to get hooked on the Aegis of the school where you take your MBA...yes recruitment agents will be impressed by that..so will HR weenies..but if you get the job you will have to start *managing* and without heavyweight experience in that, gilt edged by the MBA not only will your studies be compromised because you dont have the experiences to draw on in class, but your performance with the timeserved managers who are starry eyed at your MBA will be at risk because you haven't got the background.

This was drummed into us at University in 1990. You want MBA? Have significant experience at a managerial level within organisations. Maybe things have changed I dont know.

Thanks for that Turg, its a good point. I guess it goes back to the usual question of experiance vs no experiance etc etc. Maybe a Msc will be more appropriate or possibly complete the MBA later on in life IF i get experiance etc. At the end of the day i guess it isnt the end of the world because i could still progress with my CCNP studies and hope to finally nail down a decent network role with career prospects! unlike the one i am in now!

Turgon

nel wrote: »

Thanks for that Turg, its a good point. I guess it goes back to the usual question of experiance vs no experiance etc etc. Maybe a Msc will be more appropriate or possibly complete the MBA later on in life IF i get experiance etc. At the end of the day i guess it isnt the end of the world because i could still progress with my CCNP studies and hope to finally nail down a decent network role with career prospects! unlike the one i am in now!

No problem. I have got to know you Nel so I knew you would take my response well. Its not a dig at your capabilities. It just something to think about. Back in 1993 when I completed my BA (Hons) in management we had MBA candidates join us in class for the 'Total Quality Management' module and even back then they had 5+ years experience holding down a managerial or at least supervisory post in the field. The MBA is designed to expose experienced managers to academic and strategic studies to *build* on their managerial background and accelerate their careers. The ethos remains the same but Im afraid a lot of institutions have sold out offering expensive MBA to people who dont have the background. The public domain is awash with individuals with little or no managerial experience with MBAs..learn about managing people and departments and budgets and costs for a few years..then do the MBA

nel

Turgon wrote: »

No problem. I have got to know you Nel so I knew you would take my response well. Its not a dig at your capabilities. It just something to think about. Back in 1993 when I completed my BA (Hons) in management we had MBA candidates join us in class for the 'Total Quality Management' module and even back then they had 5+ years experience holding down a managerial or at least supervisory post in the field. The MBA is designed to expose experienced managers to academic and strategic studies to *build* on their managerial background and accelerate their careers. The ethos remains the same but Im afraid a lot of institutions have sold out offering expensive MBA to people who dont have the background. The public domain is awash with individuals with little or no managerial experience with MBAs..learn about managing people and departments and budgets and costs for a few years..then do the MBA

dont worry i know it wasnt a dig or anything. Infact i prefer and admire such honestly, which is exactly why i posted the original question on the board - and the fact i would get honest, unbiased opinions.

Thanks for your advice, its put many things in perspective...and maybe saved me £20k along the way

GAngel

Turgon wrote: »

Honestly for the MBA unless things have changed you need serious management experience behind you before thinking about it. You only do one and you dont want to be paper with a designation like that..too many people are. There's a tendency to get hooked on the Aegis of the school where you take your MBA...yes recruitment agents will be impressed by that..so will HR weenies..but if you get the job you will have to start *managing* and without heavyweight experience in that, gilt edged by the MBA not only will your studies be compromised because you dont have the experiences to draw on in class, but your performance with the timeserved managers who are starry eyed at your MBA will be at risk because you haven't got the background.

This was drummed into us at University in 1990. You want MBA? Have significant experience at a managerial level within organisations. Maybe things have changed I dont know.

have you read Managers Not MBAs because you're dead on.
"The crux of Mintzberg's criticism was three-fold: Traditional MBA programs teach the wrong people (young, with little or no management experience). They do it the wrong way (business analysis in functional silos, instead of "soft" skills such as communications and negotiations in a way that cuts across silos). And the process yields the wrong outcomes (narcissistic kids under the misapprehension that they've been trained as managers, when, in fact, they've simply picked up are a few analytical skills, and nothing by way of the experience, craft, intuition and humility necessary to navigate the controlled chaos of modern business)."

And a real life example I have is someone I know personally who's a senior CFO at one fo the biggest companies in the world I was having a chat with him about doing mine. He said he's personally fired hundreds of people and the vast majority of them were mba's and cma's. The reason was not because they wern't smart but because they were totally unprepared for how business actually works from the best schools all the way down. This is someone who wrote one of the books in use in almost every grad school out there.

Turgon

GAngel wrote: »

have you read Managers Not MBAs because you're dead on.
"The crux of Mintzberg's criticism was three-fold: Traditional MBA programs teach the wrong people (young, with little or no management experience). They do it the wrong way (business analysis in functional silos, instead of "soft" skills such as communications and negotiations in a way that cuts across silos). And the process yields the wrong outcomes (narcissistic kids under the misapprehension that they've been trained as managers, when, in fact, they've simply picked up are a few analytical skills, and nothing by way of the experience, craft, intuition and humility necessary to navigate the controlled chaos of modern business)."

And a real life example I have is someone I know personally who's a senior CFO at one fo the biggest companies in the world I was having a chat with him about doing mine. He said he's personally fired hundreds of people and the vast majority of them were mba's and cma's. The reason was not because they wern't smart but because they were totally unprepared for how business actually works from the best schools all the way down. This is someone who wrote one of the books in use in almost every grad school out there.

Its not just about business, that is useful but business is rather calculating. Targets and Pie Charts. Getting inside someones brain is rather more complex and much more demanding, although not as demanding as effective parenting. It's about learning to understand people and learning how to get the best out of people to not only meet objectives but also help nuture and release their potential. Acquiring the skills to get to know people well isn't something you learn in class.

sreed

When you don’t understand the politics of work, you call it a career. When you do, you try to avoid work.

Get CCIE certified, work as a contractor and live life to the max. With an MBA your just asking for more work.

Turgon

sreed wrote: »

When you don’t understand the politics of work, you call it a career. When you do, you try to avoid work.

Get CCIE certified, work as a contractor and live life to the max. With an MBA your just asking for more work.

Interesting philosophy. Im sure many on here would like more insights on what you mean as the MBA is certainly in the sights of several members, would you care to give some examples?

sreed

Turgon wrote: »

Interesting philosophy. Im sure many on here would like more insights on what you mean as the MBA is certainly in the sights of several members, would you care to give some examples?

If you have good common sense then u have an MBA.

In a company, Managers come and go, but skilled professionals are valued. Even if a skilled professional makes a mistake, it’s the managers who get fired.

The more skilled u r the more power u have in the working environment. Work is not in control of u. U mould work around u.

pml1

sreed wrote: »

In a company, Managers come and go, but skilled professionals are valued. Even if a skilled professional makes a mistake, it’s the managers who get fired.

Yes, managers are many times held responsible for the actions of their employees (Sometimes that's fair, and sometimes it's not.) But in my limited experience, skilled managers are exceptionally hard to find. I'm in no way suggesting that every skilled manager has an MBA or everyone who has an MBA is a skilled manager.

sreed

pml1 wrote: »

Yes, managers are many times held responsible for the actions of their employees (Sometimes that's fair, and sometimes it's not.) But in my limited experience, skilled managers are exceptionally hard to find. I'm in no way suggesting that every skilled manager has an MBA or everyone who has an MBA is a skilled manager.

Skilled managers are hard to find because skilled people will never want to become managers. Its too much work for very little pay.

Firing Mangers is always the right option if u are the owner of a business.

If i owned a business and fired all my managers, it would still continue to run, and after a month i would easily be able to replace them all.