CCNA with CCIE in mind

jahsoul

No, this isn't a thread about jumping the gun..lol (I don't even know if I worded it right or if this is the right subforum.. *shrug*) But I was talking to a CCIE on another forum and we talked about my upcoming studies for the CCNA and I asked him for any advice in the studying. One bit of advice that he gave (other than telling me to look up info on Dynamips) was to purchase a lab book from InternetworkExpert because they gave real world experience used in the work force. I responded that I didn't know about being a beginner and working CCIE labs. He responded that OSPF is the same at whatever level you are studying for. Considering that would like the progress in Cisco on day, I'm really considering this method but I have two questions to ask yall before I commit completely.

1. In your opinion, is this a viable method to study for the CCNA? (especially considering that I'm about to start to just dive into learning Cisco)

2. How would I begin to apply beginners information using a CCIE lab?

Any info would be appreciated....

Joey

ColbyG

IMO, starting with any CCIE workbooks isn't a good idea. It will be extremely overwhelming and possibly even discouraging.

Start with ICND1 and ICND2, pass those and move onto the CCNP exams. If you want a deeper understanding of the technologies while working on the CCNA, consider grabbing some CCNP books, or the Doyle books (Routing TCP/IP Vols I and II). Jumping too far ahead will likely lead to information overload.

ConstantlyLearning

I agree. Think you should use CCNA material for the CCNA. If you move onto the CCNP I'd then use CCIE material for that as well as CCNP material.

Paul Boz

I honestly don't think it would hurt. I read Routing TCP IP volumes 1 & 2 prior to sitting the CCNA. They're CCIE level books and helped me bigtime. Don't sell yourself short. Study the CCNA material to a point of competence then if you have some extra time get a CCIE lab book and try to work through it. It will HUGELY over prepare you for the CCNA but is that really a bad thing?

Study for what you eventually want to become. There's no such thing as studying too much or beyond your level. You only get to a new level by studying the material.

jahsoul

Thanks for the advice. It's just one of those situations where, when I get there, I want to be PREPARED..lol. But then I find myself asking, should I use 2 3550's in my lab or the suggested 2950... . It's just so much...

networker050184

ColbyG wrote: »

IMO, starting with any CCIE workbooks isn't a good idea. It will be extremely overwhelming and possibly even discouraging.

Start with ICND1 and ICND2, pass those and move onto the CCNP exams. If you want a deeper understanding of the technologies while working on the CCNA, consider grabbing some CCNP books, or the Doyle books (Routing TCP/IP Vols I and II). Jumping too far ahead will likely lead to information overload.

I agree with Colby. While I don't want to discourage you from going above and beyond just enough to pass the exam, you will more than likely be overwhelmed by the CCIE level labs. A better method IMO would be to work with the CCNP level lab guides while you work your way up. Sometimes when I try to jump ahead of myself on a technology I end up wasting more time learning than if I would have just gone about it the right way the first time.

I also don't really find the labs in the workbooks to be "real world." If you solve real world issues with some of the crap they want you to do then you need to be shot.

ColbyG

jahsoul wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. It's just one of those situations where, when I get there, I want to be PREPARED..lol. But then I find myself asking, should I use 2 3550's in my lab or the suggested 2950... . It's just so much...

Buying CCNP/CCIE lab gear is definitely a good idea. 1-2x2950, and 2x3550 (+ routers or dynamips) would be great through the CCNP and pretty good for the CCIE.

Paul Boz

If you are serious about the CCNP and CCIE just buy what you need for that now. As the poser above me said, get a few L3 switches, some routers, and maybe a pair of 2950 switches. The 2950s are practically free now and will cover the fundamentals. You can then incorporate them into the rest of your lab or trade them off to someone else.

Forsaken_GA

I think that the INE workbooks may be a little overkill for starting out. The lab gear recommendations provided above are spot on - if your goal is CCIE, then you'll want to select equipment that you can grow into a lab, not have to replace down the road.

I do not think it would be a bad idea to pick up some CCIE level Cisco Press books, however. Routing TCP/IP volume 1 is a good thing for a CCNA to learn. You can hold off on Volume 2 until you're ready to move to the Professional level exams, as you won't see any of that content on the CCNA level. Once you hit the NP level, the INE workbooks wouldn't be out of line.

I think beginning with the end in mind is a very good idea, it gives you a tangible goal to work towards. One thing I will tell you upfront is that you are going to be doing *alot* of reading. Alot. If you don't like to read, you're going to have a difficult time. And you're going to read some of the same books more than once, in particular the CCIE level ones. Even if you pass the lab exam, you'll keep them. I think Mike has told on more than one occasion how he keeps a copy of Routing TCP/IP Vol. 1 handy, and that he can reach for Vol. 2 without having to look at it. Network engineering will become a way of life.

ciscog33k

I would figure out what you're doing with your career first. I started off with the same goal last year. I did my CCNA and am almost done my CCNP. If you are already in the networking field at a large company where you can advance to get experience to match your eventual certs, I'd say go for it. If you aren't, you can still do the CCIE one day, but you may want to focus on what will help you immediately on the path to where a CCIE is actually useful. The first thing would be getting your CCNA and then getting into a company with a big network that you can start working on as you gain more skills.

I say this from experience. I purchased a bunch of 3550s and an INE CCIE:R&S package, plus about 20 books right up front. Now that my priorities have shifted towards pursuing the CCVP before going on to the CCIE, I'm out that money. Well, I'm not really out the money since I will go back to it, but the money could have been better allocated as I needed it, because I now need to build out a CCVP lab and buy all the books for that too. The CCVP lab is fairly expensive to build, so I kinda wish the money I spent on INE had been spent on that instead. In the end it will all cost the same, but it's a cash flow thing which may or may not matter to you (I quit my job recently so it matters to me).

Having said that, I did use some of the INE stuff during my CCNP. The CoD videos often explain the output of show and debug commands that either aren't mentioned in the CCNP materials or are just mentioned in passing. And also, one of the most valuable things I learned watching the CoD videos was how to filter output from show/debug commands. None of the CCNA/CCNP books really cover that, but using include/exclude/beginning, or applying ACLs for debugging, is extremely useful, and watching the videos I learned a lot of different ways to do things.

Anyway, I definitely agree with doing lots of labs, whether in dynamips or on real routers. I used dynampis + 4 3550 switches for my CCNP. It works well enough but i'd be lying if i said that I didn't regularly run in to some frustration with dynamips. It's not perfect, but it is free.

Turgon

jahsoul wrote: »

No, this isn't a thread about jumping the gun..lol (I don't even know if I worded it right or if this is the right subforum.. *shrug*) But I was talking to a CCIE on another forum and we talked about my upcoming studies for the CCNA and I asked him for any advice in the studying. One bit of advice that he gave (other than telling me to look up info on Dynamips) was to purchase a lab book from InternetworkExpert because they gave real world experience used in the work force. I responded that I didn't know about being a beginner and working CCIE labs. He responded that OSPF is the same at whatever level you are studying for. Considering that would like the progress in Cisco on day, I'm really considering this method but I have two questions to ask yall before I commit completely.

1. In your opinion, is this a viable method to study for the CCNA? (especially considering that I'm about to start to just dive into learning Cisco)

2. How would I begin to apply beginners information using a CCIE lab?

Any info would be appreciated....

Joey

Difficult question. Read some *tough* things by all means. It wont kill you and will broaden your horizons. Hell I read Giles through Christmas 1999 and Dr Pete Welchers BGP papers in 2000 even the ones he recommended you read 'even if you dont understand them'.

Before CCNA/CCNP many people went for CCIE straight and still do but the landscape awaiting 'whizzkids' is somewhat different in 2010 than it was in 1999 and here is why..

1. The *workforce* is older although not necessarily wiser on TCP/IP. Many people you will work with have learned the hard way how to get it all playing nicely the last 10 years. It really was a lot of work.

2. The mystery of networking has gone to some extent. So you can expect to be challenged more these days about what you say and do concerning networking situations and solutions.

3. The workforce is rather CCNAesque these days in terms of assumed capability and knowledge and awareness. So some understanding of that baseline will equip you well.

If you could subnet in 1999 you were a wizard, if you could get a 2500 connected nicely to Frame a demi god and OSPF over frame heaven knows what. ISDN back up?

Learn the rudiments very well! Lots of people use wireshark these days and are well aware of mysterious things like firewalls, proxies, SSL accelerators, asymmetric routing, DMZ's, subinterfaces, policy based routing, mail relays, load balancers, reverse proxies, to name but a few things. 10 years ago very few people had even heard of snoops (comparitively).

Back in the day, with a bomber jacket it was like..WOW. Today its like..'Oh a CCIE..tell me something I don't know'

Paul Boz

Turgon wrote: »

Back in the day, with a bomber jacket it was like..WOW. Today its like..'Oh a CCIE..tell me something I don't know'

Isn't that the truth! I've done penetration testing on five CCIE's data networks while working at my current employer and 4/5 of them had cubicles smaller than mine (which is saying something). I used to think that CCIE = $$$$$$, big office, big house, etc. That may still be the case, but the image has certainly been diluted to some degree.

Turgon

Paul Boz wrote: »

Isn't that the truth! I've done penetration testing on five CCIE's data networks while working at my current employer and 4/5 of them had cubicles smaller than mine (which is saying something). I used to think that CCIE = $$$$$$, big office, big house, etc. That may still be the case, but the image has certainly been diluted to some degree.

Things move on Paul. Back up the CCIE with demonstrable experience and you have Kudos these days.

Paul Boz

Turgon wrote: »

Things move on Paul. Back up the CCIE with demonstrable experience and you have Kudos these days.

Yep, that's the only way. You also have to diversify and exhibit leadership skills. Seldom does a CCIE get a job that doesn't require project management or leadership skills. Those intangibles make or break anyone though.

jahsoul

I really appreciate all the help. I've just been deciding which way I wanted to take my studies. Right now, my plan is Dynamips and 2x2950 and 2x3550. Again, thank everybody...*going to read so I can understand what the crap is going on forreal..lol*