UUgh, maybe I'm just not cut out for this

tdean

it seems the more i study, the more i forget or the more i see that i've never even seen before. i cant seem to visualize how this stuff works.

lets say Company A has 3 sites, Boston, Fla and Cal. each site has 4 routers. 3 are connected to switches and each switch has the next hop router configured as its default gateway, right? each of those 4 routers runs an internal routing protocol such as Rip, OSPF or EIGRP to communicate with each other dynamically? (static would also be an option?)

ok, now the router thats on the "edge" communicates with the ISP and its other Company A routers via frame relay? and if they want to hit anything other than a Company A router the protocol used is BGP?

i wont be on the rest of the night, i need a break, but any responses are greatly appreciated. i've spent months on this and i simply cant seem to organize it in my head.

hexem

First off, don't give up..it's not an easy subject and one that's easily digested, it takes time and alot of reading and repetition...ive passed my ccna but i still have my ccna book sat here infront of me and still have to go over it sometimes, there are CCIE's who probably still use google for little thing's they can't remember, altho i'm sure they have stupidly good memories :P

Ok so basically we use thing's like eigrp, rip, ospf to share routing information within an atonomous system (a collection of devices under the same administrative control) so all those devices within the AS can share routing information with eachother..

In order to route between differn't atonomous system's you need an exterior gateway routing protocol (these are mainly used on backbone routers and between ISP's)

now you can consider you're ISP the gateway to other AS's outside of you're own company's network.


I'm sure someone will come along and explain thing's better

notgoing2fail

Hexem is right, depending on what your experience is with cisco or networking in general, it can be a really challenging field to dive head first into.

As for your question, if I understand it correctly, you can just use your FR to talk between your sites. Then for internet access, either use a different port or different router altogether to allow your users to access the internet...

hermeszdata

tdean wrote: »

it seems the more i study, the more i forget or the more i see that i've never even seen before. i cant seem to visualize how this stuff works.

lets say Company A has 3 sites, Boston, Fla and Cal. each site has 4 routers. 3 are connected to switches and each switch has the next hop router configured as its default gateway, right? each of those 4 routers runs an internal routing protocol such as Rip, OSPF or EIGRP to communicate with each other dynamically? (static would also be an option?)

ok, now the router thats on the "edge" communicates with the ISP and its other Company A routers via frame relay? and if they want to hit anything other than a Company A router the protocol used is BGP?

i wont be on the rest of the night, i need a break, but any responses are greatly appreciated. i've spent months on this and i simply cant seem to organize it in my head.

Frame realy circuits ONLY allow communications between Company A sites (Branch Offices). If communication with sites other than corporate sites is needed, i.e. Internet Access, one of the sites must have a dedicated connection to the internet from their ISP. This could be DSL, Cable, or T1/T3/OC*.

tanix

Break things up a bit.

WAN's

Know your terminology, what they mean and what they do.

Customer Premise Equipment
Demarcation point
Local loop
Central Office
Toll network
Data Terminal Equipment
Data Communication Equipment

WAN connection types, how they function, what they involve and how they are setup as well as common technologies used over them.

Leased Lines-Dedicated (HDLC, PPP)--Think point to point

Circuit-switched (ISDN)--Think phone call

Packet-switched (Frame Relay, X.25)--Think leased line, but through a provider (and fee based like circuit-switched)

Go through each of those types, draw out how they would look, set them up in simulations, see what WAN protocols each supports and how they differ and relate and how each protocol functions compared to the other internally.

Each Wan protocol has a unique set of features that serve a specific need and provide different approaches, understanding them will remove some of the problems you are having.

I was there too, all of it was overwhelming and I couldn't remember which was what and I had a hard time remembering. Stop trying to remember, and start trying to understand each. It will take all the mystery from it and if you break up the topics neatly.

WAN's
Routing
Switching
Wireless
Security
And so on...

You can start to see how they fit together. For instance, you start to see how RIP, OSPF, and EIGRP relate to design and function concerning WAN's. You start to see the relevance of breaking up a network with VLAN's and building them efficiently and effectively depending on the type of needs of your network.

Keep chipping away at it, you will eventually "get it".

Forsaken_GA

The common mistake that folks outside of the networking field make is to assume it's all one field, and any network engineer should know everything, whereas network engineering has it's own very specific sub fields.

Only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time, if you try to learn it all at once, you're essentially going to choke your brain.

phoeneous

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time, if you try to learn it all at once, you're essentially going to choke your brain.

Quote of the year.

tdean

Thanks for the encouragement guys. yesterday was particularly frustrating for some reason, but im back at it today. prior to December, i had never touched a router before so when something new comes up right after i think i have something down, i kind of panic.
im trying to do one technology at a time. frame relay, ospf, igrp etc. im just having trouble visualizing how they tie in with each other. i like this stuff and i want to be good at it. no shortcuts, but it does get frustrating and i really have no one to help me as i dont know anyone in the field.

notgoing2fail

tdean wrote: »

Thanks for the encouragement guys. yesterday was particularly frustrating for some reason, but im back at it today. prior to December, i had never touched a router before so when something new comes up right after i think i have something down, i kind of panic.
im trying to do one technology at a time. frame relay, ospf, igrp etc. im just having trouble visualizing how they tie in with each other. i like this stuff and i want to be good at it. no shortcuts, but it does get frustrating and i really have no one to help me as i dont know anyone in the field.

It just takes awhile for it all to sink in. Eventually it will become second nature...and you can move on to greener pastures....

DevilWAH

I have a shocking memory, Its actual all to do with being dyslexic, most of us guys have poor memory's for specific facts. However the networking field is not a place where specific memory's are all that helpful. The subject matter is just to large, and not only is there a lot of it, but it all the different areas have to fit together.

Now one of the techniques that people with dyslexic develop, is working things out from first principals. What that means is learning the core basic, and working out on the fly from them. Networking leans its self to this approach I find very well, because it has clearly defined points of reference.

Start you studies at the basic OSI model, until you are happy not just with what each layer is name, but what it does and why there are 7 layers. Once you have the OSI covered and understood, then you will find the other topics fall in to place on top of that. The question you want to always ask your self is WHY... "Why did some one design this like this", "why do we need this in networking". Look for that reason behind it.

There is more reason to having eigrp than simply copying routing tables around a network, take it further, why do we need to copy route tables around anyway, why do we need routing tables.. why do we need to send packets between networks, why do we need separate networks... etc.. etc.. When learning a new topic work it backwards in to topics you already know. When you re beginning to learn take it right back to the physical layer in necessary, the zeros and ones on the cable. Over time you core knowledge will get stronger, because you are constantly reinforcing it.

Then when you need to remember it you can follow the path back the other way.. from the simple concepts of networking, deep in to the eigrp routing protocol.

So that's my tip, don't try to learn 100 separate topics, and neither try to lean one massive one.. Start at the bottom and work up, always making sure that you are creating one large "idea" and fitting it all together. As was mentioned before, You don't need to "know" it all, but you do need to understand it all.

mikej412

tdean wrote: »

i really have no one to help me as i dont know anyone in the field.

What are we? Chopped Liver? We may not be as fast and efficient as having an Instructor and Classmates and Lab Aides and experience Co-Workers to turn to for questions, but we make up for it with the number of people here, the knowledge we possess, and our willingness to answer questions (even from itdaddy ).

If you hit an issue, do your best to work it out or work thorough it. If you're still having problems, post what you're trying to do or learn and where you think you're at -- and someone will (eventually, since this a discussion forum and not a chat room) get back to you (and hopefully understand your confusion from their own recent experience) and help you work through it.

stlsmoore

tanix wrote: »

Break things up a bit.

WAN's

Know your terminology, what they mean and what they do.

Customer Premise Equipment
Demarcation point
Local loop
Central Office
Toll network
Data Terminal Equipment
Data Communication Equipment

WAN connection types, how they function, what they involve and how they are setup as well as common technologies used over them.

Leased Lines-Dedicated (HDLC, PPP)--Think point to point

Circuit-switched (ISDN)--Think phone call

Packet-switched (Frame Relay, X.25)--Think leased line, but through a provider (and fee based like circuit-switched)

Go through each of those types, draw out how they would look, set them up in simulations, see what WAN protocols each supports and how they differ and relate and how each protocol functions compared to the other internally.

Each Wan protocol has a unique set of features that serve a specific need and provide different approaches, understanding them will remove some of the problems you are having.

I was there too, all of it was overwhelming and I couldn't remember which was what and I had a hard time remembering. Stop trying to remember, and start trying to understand each. It will take all the mystery from it and if you break up the topics neatly.

WAN's
Routing
Switching
Wireless
Security
And so on...

You can start to see how they fit together. For instance, you start to see how RIP, OSPF, and EIGRP relate to design and function concerning WAN's. You start to see the relevance of breaking up a network with VLAN's and building them efficiently and effectively depending on the type of needs of your network.

Keep chipping away at it, you will eventually "get it".

Some very good starting points on learning about WAN topics, the thing is you really don't learn much about CPE, creating loops, and all that other good stuff in any of the CCNA material sadly. I remember around this time last year I had no clue what a smart jack was lol.

tdean

ok gents... slow and steady. this was a good week. i took one thing at a time... vtp, then rip, ospf, eigrp and finally acl's and rip/eigrp route summarization. i think im seeing the big picture. i only wish i had something like case studies, rather than perfect scenarios in a text book.

phoeneous

tdean wrote: »

i only wish i had something like case studies.

Thats the best part of labbing it up, you get to make your own case studies.