Change job every two years

Kaminsky

The best way to progress onwards and upwards is to impose on yourself a manadatory change of jobs every two years regardless of what level you are at.

Two years is just about the right time when you should really be getting on top of the job and starting to excel, stand out but also encountering the subtle and decieving feeling of getting your feet too comfortable under the desk. You've cracked the job, you know the boundaries and limits of your role and you are starting to stand out and are setting up new ways of doing things (far better than the way it used to be done before you arrived) that others listen to and accept as a damn good idea, long overdue. You know when to make decisions on your own and you especially know when to escalate.

As much as you still think you can make a difference, all you are doing by staying is taking the easy road and tidying up more of the mess you found in the first place. If you stay due to some weird "earning the respect of the existing peers" that you still haven't got any acknowledgement from but want that respect to prove "to yourself" you have made it in the industry.... Just realise that those fu**ers will be there until they retire and you would have wasted all that time just to fill dead mans shoes and by that time it is too late for you also...

Now is the time to move on. Not think about moving on, but move on if you do actually want to climb the ranks with as little time wastage as possible. Two and a half to three years and you'll have to explain at the next interview, why you stayed so long.Your successor can get on with the tidy up (using your pre-laid guidelines) and bring about even better ways of doing things before they setup new guidelines and move on during which time they will too slag off and blame the idiot that came before them.

From this point on, the longer you keep your feet under that comfy desk with your mates, you have only yourself to blame later on in your career.

This does not necessarily mean you should change companies unless you absolutely have to. In fact, it is better to move upwards or even sideways in the same company than to move to a similar role in a different company for slightly more pay because, staying in the same company and moving up or to something different, ratains your credibility through the good contacts you have already made. You can take the credibility and contacts you have made so far and use them to do just as well in your next role.

If your only option is to change companies, then leep for as high as you can get right from the beginning because generally, once you are in, getting any sort of decent pay rise is nigh on impossbile. Remember, by now, you are not a newbie begging for a chance. You have already proven your worth and you have the experience backing you up to justify your application for that new role in that new company. Do not be modest at your new company interview. They don't know you or your previous company. They just want to see bullet point achievements in your CV and the longer you stay, the wider you spread out your achievements in the previous role. You can embelish by generous wording as long as you know how to twist what you wrote to what you wanted them to think, when questioned at interview. Never Lie on your CV. Some smarmy git of an interviewer will always find you out and as you walk out, it seems that the secretary, office staff, security, doorman and even the taxi driver knows of your shame... Don't do it to yourself. It takes too much downtime trying to pick yourself back up again.

DO NOT be timid when talk comes around to salary, even if you are going for a job in the same company. Seriously, you are a mug if you do. What you ask is what YOU think your potential is worth with the addition of the amount of non work life you will have to give up for the job. Think of anything that you don't do now, that you will have to do or give up as a reason to justify the salary increase you are asking for. When it comes to discussing salary at interview, shoot for the moon or at least a rediculous amount of the moon you absolutely expect you don't have a chance of getting BUT is a good starting negotiation point to work downwards from. If you give too rediculous a figure, they will just laugh at you so do your own homework and find out what the job is worth. You will be amazed at how many people in our industry are sitting side by side, doing exactly the same jobs, on completely different salaries all because, one of them shot for the moon and got it whilst the other one was too timid to ask for much more than they were already getting in the previous job.

Eventually, you will settle in a role that you are fairly all-round happy in. It's different for each and every one of us what that role is. It's a role where you have no regrets and finally stop smack talking about what you are going to be moving onto soon once you get that qualfier. Until you reach that lofty position of content, remember, two years is the perfect time to move on and delay at your own future cost.
.


Excuse the epiphany but I am 46 in 6 weeks - closer to 50 than 40 !!! Thoughts are getting a llittle strange AND I've noticed my first grey hair. I remember being a snotty faced student, begging for just a chance to prove myself in this industry, and thinking that by this time I would be earning and living a lifestyle comparatively (for the 20 years of effort I have put in) a lot better than I actually am.

hex_omega

I've only been at my current job 6 months and I'm already looking to move on. My first true IT job. But very boring and unchallenging. I've taken everything I am ever going to from this job. Problem is there are few opportunites available in my area.

jeanathan

Excuse the epiphany but I am 46 in 6 weeks - closer to 50 than 40 !!! Thoughts are getting a little strange AND I've noticed my first grey hair. I remember being a snotty faced student, begging for just a chance to prove myself in this industry, and thinking that by this time I would be earning and living a lifestyle comparatively (for the 20 years of effort I have put in) a lot better than I actually am.

Do I sense envy? Don't feel too bad man, I have put 10 years into this industry and have only worked 3 of those making 20k 20k then 30k. No 401k @ that job

Now that my degree is done I see it means I still only make around 30k starting out.

I think upward mobility has a lot to do with your looks and personality as much as it does your talents. Some of us will just have to be happy with 30-50k and make it up with a good attitude and smart self investments.

I still wonder whether IT being a really easy career opposed to miner, solider, and truck driver hasn't resulted in an over-sized labor pool. People used to make 17$/hr to put PC's together now your lucky to beat minimum wage as an A+ tech.

The market is telling us something; go away and don't come back no more. Become a doctor, lawyer, or ceo not an IT guy.

Sorry *end rant*

MentholMoose

jeanathan wrote: »

No 401k @ that job

That's one problem with changing jobs every two years. For example, my last job had zero match until you were there for a year. When you change jobs you have to make sure to keep things like this in mind when negotiating the compensation. Far too many people don't pay attention to the details and it hurts them in the long run.

jeanathan

I've only been at my current job 6 months and I'm already looking to move on. My first true IT job. But very boring and unchallenging. I've taken everything I am ever going to from this job. Problem is there are few opportunities available in my area.

That is a part of the reason I left my job and went back to school. And I too live in an area with few opportunities. Glass ceiling can come from a lack of formal education, not a just thing in my book, but it exist nevertheless.

Menthol Moose is right you need to look at 401k, vacation days, salary vs. hourly, overtime allowed, health insurance coverage, enjoyment factor, the way others treat you at work, and a host of other factors before quitting/moving jobs. A lot of places give better benefits to long term employees. State jobs sometimes have pensions.

Some people are unemployed despite their best efforts so sometimes it is good to think about how many things are going good for you and improve your attitude at work accordingly. I know from personal experience that is easier said than done.

RouteThisWay

Kaminsky wrote: »

Thoughts are getting a llittle strange AND I've noticed my first grey hair.

You are exactly twice my age and I have quite a bit of grays all up and down the sides of my head..... Crap



Good post btw. I remember my current job, I got back in the end of 2008. I came in very overwhelmed, only a year or so worth of basis PC hardware repair, and was assigned tasks that I was intimidated by. I had to design our entire desktop imaging solution, deploy them, maintain the images, get our mobile computing encryption software working, etc etc etc. I also do RSA SecurID two-factor authentication appliance configuration/management, RSA account management, integrating two-factor with our VPN solution to support RADIUS authentication, etc. Have slowly stepped into doing some server support on the side while my primary function is desktops/help desk.

I have gained some pretty valuable knowledge with AD management/configuration. Not just how to do things, but why to do things. I think there is a big difference than learning how to manipulate objects, and learning why you are doing it that way. That applies to anything administrated in IT, whether it is a server, a switch, a router, or whatever.

This post has made me realize how far I have come in a short 18 months. I am currently working on revamping our imaging solution, revamping our encryption solution, etc. Things I thought were way over my head (which they were at the time). It was a sink or swim situation. At first, I was doggie paddling trying to stay afloat. But the last 8 months or so.. I have been swimming in strides.

And by the 2 year mark, I will hopefully have a few MS server certs under my belt that will back up the experience I have, to hopefully land a position somewhere doing more server support than desktop support.

ilcram19-2

jeanathan wrote: »

Do I sense envy? Don't feel too bad man, I have put 10 years into this industry and have only worked 3 of those making 20k 20k then 30k. No 401k @ that job

Now that my degree is done I see it means I still only make around 30k starting out.

I think upward mobility has a lot to do with your looks and personality as much as it does your talents. Some of us will just have to be happy with 30-50k and make it up with a good attitude and smart self investments.

I still wonder whether IT being a really easy career opposed to miner, solider, and truck driver hasn't resulted in an over-sized labor pool. People used to make 17$/hr to put PC's together now your lucky to beat minimum wage as an A+ tech.

The market is telling us something; go away and don't come back no more. Become a doctor, lawyer, or ceo not an IT guy.

Sorry *end rant*

what!!!!? why? how da fu**** ? i seriously dont know how people let other people take advantage of them, poeple need to change that acctitud

ilcram19-2

Kaminsky wrote: »

The best way to progress onwards and upwards is to impose on yourself a manadatory change of jobs every two years regardless of what level you are at.

Two years is just about the right time when you should really be getting on top of the job and starting to excel, stand out but also encountering the subtle and decieving feeling of getting your feet too comfortable under the desk. You've cracked the job, you know the boundaries and limits of your role and you are starting to stand out and are setting up new ways of doing things (far better than the way it used to be done before you arrived) that others listen to and accept as a damn good idea, long overdue. You know when to make decisions on your own and you especially know when to escalate.

As much as you still think you can make a difference, all you are doing by staying is taking the easy road and tidying up more of the mess you found in the first place. If you stay due to some weird "earning the respect of the existing peers" that you still haven't got any acknowledgement from but want that respect to prove "to yourself" you have made it in the industry.... Just realise that those fu**ers will be there until they retire and you would have wasted all that time just to fill dead mans shoes and by that time it is too late for you also...

Now is the time to move on. Not think about moving on, but move on if you do actually want to climb the ranks with as little time wastage as possible. Two and a half to three years and you'll have to explain at the next interview, why you stayed so long.Your successor can get on with the tidy up (using your pre-laid guidelines) and bring about even better ways of doing things before they setup new guidelines and move on during which time they will too slag off and blame the idiot that came before them.

From this point on, the longer you keep your feet under that comfy desk with your mates, you have only yourself to blame later on in your career.

This does not necessarily mean you should change companies unless you absolutely have to. In fact, it is better to move upwards or even sideways in the same company than to move to a similar role in a different company for slightly more pay because, staying in the same company and moving up or to something different, ratains your credibility through the good contacts you have already made. You can take the credibility and contacts you have made so far and use them to do just as well in your next role.

If your only option is to change companies, then leep for as high as you can get right from the beginning because generally, once you are in, getting any sort of decent pay rise is nigh on impossbile. Remember, by now, you are not a newbie begging for a chance. You have already proven your worth and you have the experience backing you up to justify your application for that new role in that new company. Do not be modest at your new company interview. They don't know you or your previous company. They just want to see bullet point achievements in your CV and the longer you stay, the wider you spread out your achievements in the previous role. You can embelish by generous wording as long as you know how to twist what you wrote to what you wanted them to think, when questioned at interview. Never Lie on your CV. Some smarmy git of an interviewer will always find you out and as you walk out, it seems that the secretary, office staff, security, doorman and even the taxi driver knows of your shame... Don't do it to yourself. It takes too much downtime trying to pick yourself back up again.

DO NOT be timid when talk comes around to salary, even if you are going for a job in the same company. Seriously, you are a mug if you do. What you ask is what YOU think your potential is worth with the addition of the amount of non work life you will have to give up for the job. Think of anything that you don't do now, that you will have to do or give up as a reason to justify the salary increase you are asking for. When it comes to discussing salary at interview, shoot for the moon or at least a rediculous amount of the moon you absolutely expect you don't have a chance of getting BUT is a good starting negotiation point to work downwards from. If you give too rediculous a figure, they will just laugh at you so do your own homework and find out what the job is worth. You will be amazed at how many people in our industry are sitting side by side, doing exactly the same jobs, on completely different salaries all because, one of them shot for the moon and got it whilst the other one was too timid to ask for much more than they were already getting in the previous job.

Eventually, you will settle in a role that you are fairly all-round happy in. It's different for each and every one of us what that role is. It's a role where you have no regrets and finally stop smack talking about what you are going to be moving onto soon once you get that qualfier. Until you reach that lofty position of content, remember, two years is the perfect time to move on and delay at your own future cost.
.


Excuse the epiphany but I am 46 in 6 weeks - closer to 50 than 40 !!! Thoughts are getting a llittle strange AND I've noticed my first grey hair. I remember being a snotty faced student, begging for just a chance to prove myself in this industry, and thinking that by this time I would be earning and living a lifestyle comparatively (for the 20 years of effort I have put in) a lot better than I actually am.

Thats sociaty now days people do what they can to survive, i bealive that there should be and stardard of living for every single human in this planet, on a monetary system we are just self sustain slaves i dont care what kind of life you have you still do some type of thing for money is ether u get F&^$%$ or you are F*&^% some one and it is really sad.
so say good bye to all those wasted years no one cares i'll be there in 25 years more too or unless people start thinking straight and stop beliving in all this mombo jumbo goverments ("word wide all the contries") **** other than that we all are screwed

jeanathan

ilcram19-2 wrote: »

Thats sociaty now days people do what they can to survive

Off topic, but a good point Irving Fisher I think maybe pointed out that MV = PT. Money has velocity and direction. Milton Friedman once said a monetary theory is like a game of musical chairs when the speed at which money changes hands and number of directions for which it flows slows then those left holding dollars win and everyone else loses. The trick is to get those with money feeling as though should they spend it, it will return to them yet again.

Allowing for the fair valuation of knowledge and skill throughout society and the ability for charity to provide for those who cannot for them self.

We have a monetary problem today, not enough dollars available to be earned and spent.

Btw, some people are not in the position, socially, to dictate terms to others and as such feel privileged to have what they have. I voice my will at the voting both, not the workplace.

ilcram19-2

jeanathan wrote: »

Off topic, but a good point Irving Fisher I think maybe pointed out that MV = PT. Money has velocity and direction. Milton Friedman once said a monetary theory is like a game of musical chairs when the speed at which money changes hands and number of directions for which it flows slows then those left holding dollars win and everyone else loses. The trick is to get those with money feeling as though should they spend it, it will return to them yet again.

Allowing for the fair valuation of knowledge and skill throughout society and the ability for charity to provide for those who cannot for them self.

We have a monetary problem today, not enough dollars available to be earned and spent.

Btw, some people are not in the position, socially, to dictate terms to others and as such feel privileged to have what they have. I voice my will at the voting both, not the workplace.

that's our problem people now days is defined by their environment and what it is available to them, people is not ignorant because they choose to a lot of the time they have limited resources, now imagine if everything was available to people there won't be no limit or where we could be on the future.
just take money out of the picture, people won't be limited to acquire the latest and greatest of technology or inventors won't be worry about giving their inventions to people because they wont have to wait for the " Cycle of consumption " to be over and come up with the next best thing that would allow the company to make more money, thanks to religion we are more than 1000 years back in technology now is happening again since the monetary system is taking advantage and prolonging the exposure of the new technology until they make money first. all that is delaying us and the human race to advance we are exploiting each other for money right now and at the end all you get is nothing for all you years of serving society come on

jeanathan

people is

Should be "people are" plural, but you are quite right if I had not been privy to certain resources provided by the US government growing up in poor rural area I might not have had the opportunity for education and advancement. So even a free market capitalist like Friedman accepted that having the government provide educational vouchers, at the expense of taxpayers, would be necessary to technological advancement within society.

The problems holding people back are intrinsic to human nature; greed, lust, envy, and vanity to name a few. If you give everyone an equal allotment of resources at birth some will squander it and some will produce more than you can imagine. If you could determine this at birth you could design allotments according to fate, but that is not the case.

If there is no money what replaces it in the negotiation of who becomes a plumber vs. computer expert. Do individuals decide, or does a committee of people, with their own interest at hand?

Again sorry off topic *ignore

RouteThisWay

ilcram19-2 wrote: »

all that is delaying us and the human race to advance we are exploiting each other for money right now and at the end all you get is nothing for all you years of serving society come on

So what do you propose? Since everything should be free, people don't get paid. So why would people work? I sure wouldn't. I work because I need to pay bills, buy food, etc. If it magically had no monetary expense to it, I wouldn't be working.

Who would go to work everyday cleaning toilets? Flipping burgers? Washing windows? You know.. the jobs no one wants now. You would have a very diminished labor force, with everyone going to the house. Because, it is all free.

No one would be there to make your video games, to make your TV, to service your cable connection, to make/grow your food, to service your automobile, to build your automobile, to refine your gasoline, to do any new scientific research (and even if passionate people did do this... you still need laborers to put it into production), to stock the shelves as the grocery store, to keep your streets clean, to protect you from criminals, to save your life if you have a heart attack, etc, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on. All of the modern day amenities we enjoy would be gone. We would be reverted back to the days with no electricity, to automobiles, no technology, nothing. Just living in a house, living off the land. We would be set back hundreds of years technology wise. Not sure why you think religion has put us 1000 years behind, but it's cool... you can make up any statistics you want. Having a monetary system is in itself a technological breakthrough that put value on the work you do. It is incentive to continue to produce, service, and research. Depending on "the good of people" to do "what is best for humanity" is naively putting too much faith in the human race.

Seriously, I think politics need to stay off of this board. Many people have no idea what they are talking about, and this just isn't the place for it.

ilcram19-2

i agreed
not the right place for this

earweed

This is certainly not a good place to get political, or even philisophical.
As far as religion holding us back technologically, the poster who refered to this may be referring to medical research which is also not a good thing to go into here. Organized religion has been around for a long time and has it's good and bad points. Most of the bad points are more to do with the leaders/leadership in some organized religions. The good points are that people affiliated with religious groups are usually very strong, moral, and ethical people.
I'm getting off topic here also and as said before there are better places to hold these discussions.

laidbackfreak

Some good advice there Kam, I'm around the same age as you but have only been in IT for around 10-12 years but this is my third career!

I've spent most of that time working my way up through the ranks (helpdesk, desktop support, server engineer, network engineer etc) to the position I'm in now. During this time my current role is the one I've been in longest but that's been due to the recession as well as plans in place away from here. I've always start to look around after 18 months or so as that's about the time I start getting bored\frustrated and have needed a new challenge.
I'm well past that stage now and should have moved on a while back but held back for various reasons.

Your right about salaries varying wildly I've been in that situation myself several times where I've gone to a new place and been the highest paid doing the lowest jobs but it's all about marketing and selling yourself. As well as keeping an eye on the open market to see what other companies are paying, it's just a game we all have to go through as we get older we realise this and probably care less lol.

I've said a couple of times I'm trying to emigrate and that's one of the reasons I've been in my current role quite as long as I have, not that its long but it's past 2 years now, even my boss says I'll be gone this year!
I recon I've got one more move here before it happens so I am shooting for the stars again

One of the things I love about IT is that constant challenge, but my desire to know everything is less than it used to be and now I'm concentrating more on knowing everything about what I do and enjoy. It's still a challenge but stops me pulled in too many different directions. My biggest problem now is finding a new direction but the plans are coming together

DevilWAH

I say forget trying to earn X amount,

Or trying to come up with a formular of when to move and what certifications to take.

If you are board in your job, or feel it is time to move on then do, if you are content to stay where you are then do that.

Yes take time to think about your future, if you want to move up, and what experence and quilifications you have (you don't want them to stagnate).

My job title is the same as it was 4 years ago, and the pay has not changed. But I know I am in a nice postition. I have a whole network to my self to learn from (all 17 sites). Ther is no chance of me moving up to a higer job in my company due to how it is structured or getting a pay rise. But I know at the moment moving to a new company I would be taking a step back in the work I do.

My view is I have another year here before I will get to the limits of what I can learn, and when I will have the experince to move in to a job that will offer me the same level of work I do now.

At the end of the day do what keeps you happy. The trick lies not in how often you change jobs, or what quilifications you have. It is your attude to work that will move you up.

I think taking stock every 6 months, seeing where you are and assess if you are happy with your job/pay/learning and where you are headding. If not decided what is wrong and make the changes to sort it out.

laidbackfreak

DevilWAH wrote: »

My job title is the same as it was 4 years ago, and the pay has not changed. But I know I am in a nice postition. I have a whole network to my self to learn from (all 17 sites). Ther is no chance of me moving up to a higer job in my company due to how it is structured or getting a pay rise. But I know at the moment moving to a new company I would be taking a step back in the work I do.

Your job title and pay hasn't changed in 4 years, but have your responsibilities? It's interesting you feel that a move out of the company would see you taking a step back, why do you feel that? can I ask how many users over the 17 sites?

I appreciate you may know the lie of the land and not be able to get a pay rise or promotion where you are, but what about a change in job title? or job description?
It's all very well knowing your getting exposure, but if your role is still described as "helpdesk" or whatever when you apply for a new role with "similar" level of work prospective employers are still going to be looking at your job title and official responsibilities and you may not even get to interview stage. Something to think about.

Money has never been a driving factor in my career but as long as I'm being paid a decent wage for the role I'm doing and not for the role I started doing I'm happy. Sadly few companies reward employees without either a change in the job description or some kind of promotion and all the while you are happy to take on more work for no pay they will let you.

Either way you are imo showing that need to move on as Kam said, your lucky in doing it within your current company

subl1m1nal

I have to agree money isn't everything. In my last 4 years in IT, I've had 3 IT jobs. Each time I took a new position, I took a 5k bump in pay with better benefits!

First job I started looking for a new job when my boss went crazy.

Second job I started looking because I was overwhelmed/stressed.

Now I have a job that keeps me busy and pays me well. They pay for certs, have decent benefits (3 weeks vaca and most federal holidays), and are way laid back about things!!!

Kikode

I seem to be moving at 1 job per year and slowly moving up. I agree it's almost impossible to get a raise unless you put in your notice. Had this happen very recently Put in my notice and woah all of the sudden they wantto give me a 7 dollar an hour raise still no benefits. Psssh "Snooze you lose" was my motto. No looking back...EVER!

TechJunky

2year rule is good for a little while.

I am 27yrs old and used that same methodology ever since I got into IT back when I was 16 and it worked really well. Wasn't a plan, it was more that I was bored and kept obtaining certs and moved up. Just so happened to be every 2 years.

It has allowed me to make over 100k at times and now im living a decent living and have no need to move because money/experience is no longer an issue. I have always created a name for myself where ever I go just because I have done anything from Network Engineering to Database Administration, so I am really well rounded and can apply for almost any job position and cater my resume to that open position. I have even done Sharepoint Engineering and crap. Eventually you will get at the top of your game when money means nothing and a good working environment is everything.

Good advice though.