Cisco Muscles Jeremy Cioaro out of CiscoBlog.com

miller811miller811 Member Posts: 897
saw this on packetlife.net

What is Cisco thinking....icon_rolleyes.gif

Cisco Muscles Jeremy Cioaro out of CiscoBlog.com - Packet Life
I don't claim to be an expert, but I sure would like to become one someday.

Quest for 11K pages read in 2011
Page Count total to date - 1283

Comments

  • jeanathanjeanathan Member Posts: 163
    Well to be honest he sometimes talks about juniper during his cisco videos (ok just once). And has a just wait till the suits get after me for saying this punchline.

    I would say that the name ciscoblogs was seen as 1. revenue source associated with trademarked name. 2. Jeremy is not as loyal to cisco as we (cisco) would have liked to see.

    Everyone beats up on MS, but cisco, intel, apple, and ect... are just as aggressive or they would not be in business.
    Struggling through the re-certification process after 2 years of no OJT for the CCNP.
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    Ehh. If you don't defend your trademarks then you eventually lose them.
  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Come on, Jeremy has nothing but praise for CISCO 99% of the time, and he clearly places there certifications above any others in the field (at least he has said that the sense of achievement on getting a CCIE was the best he has felt).

    You also protect your trade mark from your competition, not aginst free publicity for your own cause.

    As that piece mentioned CISCO are not the sole owners of the name CISCO. So I not sure how they can say CISCOBLOG is an infringement of there copyright.

    It seems to me a very silly move on there part, Coming down on a well known and respected website that sends lots of customers there way (yes it talks about other makes to, but it does lean heavily towards CISCO) seems a childish move. I sure a much better solution could have been come to, you would have though Cisco would have tried to do what microsoft did with Sysintermals. Rather than chase them away, brought them in to the organisation and still left them with as much freedom to carry on as they where before.
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • miller811miller811 Member Posts: 897
    tiersten wrote: »
    Ehh. If you don't defend your trademarks then you eventually lose them.

    I guess he could change it to FCISCOBLOG

    he was getting 600,000 hits per months on his blog..
    He stated on his blog site that it is part of the NDA we all signed everytime we earn a Cisco Cert that allows them to make him change it.
    I don't claim to be an expert, but I sure would like to become one someday.

    Quest for 11K pages read in 2011
    Page Count total to date - 1283
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    You also protect your trade mark from your competition, not aginst free publicity for your own cause.
    Doesn't work like that. You have to protect it from all unauthorised usage even if that usage is actually in your interest.
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    As that piece mentioned CISCO are not the sole owners of the name CISCO. So I not sure how they can say CISCOBLOG is an infringement of there copyright.
    You register trademarks in specific areas. Cisco own "Cisco" when referring to networking and I assume now servers.
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    miller811 wrote: »
    I guess he could change it to FCISCOBLOG
    Too close to Cisco still :P That'd be like making a burger restaurant called McDonaldz.
  • jeanathanjeanathan Member Posts: 163
    As long as he still makes grade A instructional videos, he can name it Cioaroblog.com and get just as many hits.
    Struggling through the re-certification process after 2 years of no OJT for the CCNP.
  • mikej412mikej412 Member Posts: 10,086 ■■■■■■■■■■
    jeanathan wrote: »
    he can name it Cioaroblog.com
    I think he should go for Jeremyblog.com -- he's earned "first name" recognition like Todd and Wendell (even thou.gh I like saying Odom better icon_lol.gif).
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
  • aldousaldous Member Posts: 105
    it wouldn't suprise me if this descion was made by some beancounter who has no idea Ciora's popularity and how much he's done for them.
    real dumbass descision
  • trackittrackit Member Posts: 224
    aldous wrote: »
    it wouldn't suprise me if this descion was made by some beancounter who has no idea ciora's popularity and how much he's done for them.
    Real dumbass descision

    ^^^^ +1
  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    If you read the comments on this specific blog, I made a comment that he should change the name to Ciskoblog and technically they can't do anything about it....

    Or maybe called it SanFranCISCOblog. LOL..


    Anyways, it's a horrible PR move IMO. It's going after the wrong people, I understand what the NDA/license anything else you want to call it, is all about. But I'm sure there's some breathing room for people like Jeremy.

    There are so many sites dedicated to cisco, are they going to go after all of them?

    It does seem very childish....

    I hope I get my CCIE one day and become well known. Then when someone asks me about Cisco, I won't ever pronounce their name, I'll just say, "THAT SanFran company with the bridge logo"...

    That way, they won't come after me for unauthorized use of their name in some kind of interview....

  • chrisonechrisone Senior Member Member Posts: 2,205 ■■■■■■■■■□
    I in no way know anything about Jeremy's financial details, but i may have a small theory.

    Being that he is licensed under cisco for books, it could be a contract violation for him to profit or promote his own products or websites using either the cisco name or a combination of the name cisco and another word. He could technically be false promoting under the cisco name because he technically is licensed under them. His CBT nuggets videos probably had a lot to do with this as well, if they were being advertised on his website and if he had any Biography stating he writes for cisco or official Cisco seals on the website then yeah its a total violation. Hes technically using the cisco name as a side or additional source of encouragement for people to buy his products.

    Just a crazy theory here, i am not a lawyer, i just wanted to throw out an idea. icon_thumright.gif
    Certs: CISSP, OSCP, CRTP, eCTHPv2, eCPPT, eCIR, LFCS, CEH, AZ-900, VHL:Advanced+, Retired Cisco CCNP/SP/DP
    2021 Goals
    Courses: eLearnSecurity - PTXv2 (complete), SANS 699: Purple Team Tactics (completed), PentesterLabs Pro (ongoing)
    Certs: eCPTXv2, AZ-500, SC-200 (fail 1st attempt), EnCE, Splunk Core Power User
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    If you read the comments on this specific blog, I made a comment that he should change the name to Ciskoblog and technically they can't do anything about it....
    No. That wouldn't work because it is too close to an existing trademark in the same field.
  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    tiersten wrote: »
    Doesn't work like that. You have to protect it from all unauthorised usage even if that usage is actually in your interest.

    I am not sure how strictly true this statement is.

    Take for instance the HPI Baja, A one fifth scale radio control car. Now my friend runs the UK BAJA forum. You don't see HPI coming down on him and telling him he cant use the Baja-fourm.co.uk webaddress...

    The Guy in America is trying to sell the USA BAJA forum for $250K, again you don't see HPI stepping in and asking for a cut. Yet this is no different, Public forums where people are using the HPI trade marks to inform people of the site purpose and to gain members.

    You can protect you trademark while still allowing others to use it. Franchises such as Mac Donolds are a prime example of this. But it can be a lot simpler than paid for formal agreements.

    Cisco could have just formally announced that this was copyright infringement and that although they where taking no action at this time, they reserved the right to take action at a future date, with out notification or further reason.

    This act would have safe guarded there trademark. Just like when we had land across which we allowed the public to walk. To safe guard it and insure people could not at a later date claim it as a public right of way, we have to have notices up saying it was private proptery and that we reserved the right to stop people crossing it.

    I am in agreement that I feel that the legal team may well be out of touch with other areas of CISCO, and not really appreciated what a bee's nest they where going to stir up.
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    I did also notice that he has said some people in CISCO have contacted him over this about the possibility oh him Blogging on the CISCO learning network.

    So may be we should not be to harsh on CISCO, may be they just want to put a tighter leash on him, and want to get more direct benefit from his blog. I don't think he is in any danger of losing his Certs just yet...

    Like he said he will most likley just change the domian name and remain independent which is nice.
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    DevilWAH wrote: »

    Cisco could have just formally announced that this was copyright infringement and that although they where taking no action at this time, they reserved the right to take action at a future date, with out notification or further reason.

    This is exactly what I meant earlier, about breathing room...they could go this route if they wanted to, I really feel that way....


    DevilWAH wrote: »

    I am in agreement that I feel that the legal team may well be out of touch with other areas of CISCO, and not really appreciated what a bee's nest they where going to stir up.

    This is why people hate lawyers, they are too technical, basically robots. They can make THEIR clients believe in anything due to their knowledge of the law....

    People who write policies and take everything literally don't understand the human side of things.

    Imagine if this little stint cause some companies to go with Juniper, then Cisco wonders what happened to their sales? Then those companies say, "honestly, we just thought you were bullying Jeremy"

    Cisco would then say, "WTF? are you serious?"

    Then Cisco would get mad at their legal dept., their legal dept. would say, "It's not our fault, we were just following the rules to the T..."


    Ok, I need to stop making up stories and step away from the computer for awhile.... icon_rolleyes.gif

  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    I am not sure how strictly true this statement is.
    Trademark law is bizarre but thats generally how it works. You don't want to let people slip past with "harmless" sites because it can become a precedent if you ever brought a case against somebody who is actively trading using your names without authorisation. Non commercial usage is normally allowed but you can't classify his site as such in this case.

    Read the trademark FAQ at Chilling Effects.
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Take for instance the HPI Baja, A one fifth scale radio control car. Now my friend runs the UK BAJA forum. You don't see HPI coming down on him and telling him he cant use the Baja-fourm.co.uk webaddress...
    The HPI Baja is named after the Baja buggies that race in the Baja races. HPI don't own Baja or Baja buggy so they wouldn't have any claim to that. If you named your forum HPI-Baja-forum.co.uk then they'd have something to go after you with. You'd have to search the trademark databases to find out whether the people that actually organise the Baja races have anything registered regarding Baja though.
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Cisco could have just formally announced that this was copyright infringement and that although they where taking no action at this time, they reserved the right to take action at a future date, with out notification or further reason.
    The first thing you do is send a cease and desist which is what he got. It is the easiest and simplest solution to the immediate problem and will prevent problems in the future.

    It isn't copyright infringement anyway :P
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    This act would have safe guarded there trademark.
    You'd have to constantly monitor them if you did this. The C&D is still the "best" method of dealing with it.
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    This is why people hate lawyers, they are too technical, basically robots. They can make THEIR clients believe in anything due to their knowledge of the law....

    People who write policies and take everything literally don't understand the human side of things.

    Imagine if this little stint cause some companies to go with Juniper, then Cisco wonders what happened to their sales? Then those companies say, "honestly, we just thought you were bullying Jeremy"

    Cisco would then say, "WTF? are you serious?"

    Then Cisco would get mad at their legal dept., their legal dept. would say, "It's not our fault, we were just following the rules to the T..."
    Thats what you're paying for though when you get a lawyer. They will know what exactly the law allows and disallows.

    At the end of the day, it is legal and within Cisco's rights to do what they did. Jeremy admits that as well. Whether it is actually a good decision by Cisco to do so without trying to come up with some other solution is another thing entirely. The PR whilst bad isn't going to particularly influence anybody when it comes to purchasing Cisco hardware. Nobody ever gets fired for buying Cisco.
  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    tiersten wrote: »


    The HPI Baja is named after the Baja buggies that race in the Baja races. HPI don't own Baja or Baja buggy so they wouldn't have any claim to that. If you named your forum HPI-Baja-forum.co.uk then they'd have something to go after you with. You'd have to search the trademark databases to find out whether the people that actually organise the Baja races have anything registered regarding Baja though.

    Would this not come under the same things though? As in in regards of Radio control cars, then the HPI would have a claim to the name, if some one is using the name BAJA in reference to there product?

    Just as CISCO is the name of a town, but because you can't clearly argue that CISCOBLOG.com is related to CISCO networking, Jeremy can't argue that his site is nothing to do with the CISCO networking company, and so avoid any legal suits.

    What makes these two different. In my view both HPI and CISCO would have the right to prevent either site from running if they chose. As both sites are built on the name/company.
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Would this not come under the same things though? As in in regards of Radio control cars, then the HPI would have a claim to the name, if some one is using the name BAJA in reference to there product?
    If Baja is a trademark then HPI would be using it under license from whoever owns the Baja trademark. If nobody owns it then anybody can make a RC car in the shape of a Baja buggy and call it a Baja RC car. If you made one and called it a HPI Baja or HPl Baja RC car then there would be a C&D coming your way.
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Just as CISCO is the name of a town, but because you can't clearly argue that CISCOBLOG.com is related to CISCO networking, Jeremy can't argue that his site is nothing to do with the CISCO networking company, and so avoid any legal suits.
    The name of the site alone doesn't imply networking but the content does. You're going to be on extremely shakey ground if you claim that the blog is about the town but you just happen to be talking about networking all the time.
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    What makes these two different. In my view both HPI and CISCO would have the right to prevent either site from running if they chose. As both sites are built on the name/company.
    Ciscoblog isn't a non commercial site. Whoever (if they exist) owns the Baja mark may not care or it may have been abandoned long ago.
  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    tiersten wrote: »
    Nobody ever gets fired for buying Cisco.


    That rings very true.....

  • trackittrackit Member Posts: 224
    If you read the comments on this specific blog, I made a comment that he should change the name to Ciskoblog and technically they can't do anything about it....

    hehe, it seems thats exactly what Jeremy did :)
  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    trackit wrote: »
    hehe, it seems thats exactly what Jeremy did :)


    Holy moses!! wow!! I was only kidding too!! He actually did it!! LOL....

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