Help? Trying to build a lab

bermovick

After trying to study for the CCNA exam a couple years ago and giving up (I didn't know at the time about the 2-test route, and never felt confident I had enough understanding of the materials, based on my scores on practice exams to actually take the test), I've decided to buckle down and work towards getting my certification again. I've chosen the 2-test route this time, and have been studying the CBTNuggest for ICND1 as well as the Official Exam Cert Guide. I'm also attempting to get a small lab built, but am REALLY confused by all the model numbers, IOS numbers and ... 'extras' needed for routers (like 2500's needing external transceivers?, and needing WIC-1T's and possibly extra ethernet cards?). Compound this with that I'm trying to spend as little as possible, since money is really tight at the moment, and I'm stumped!

I've been lurking here for a little bit and finding the threads I've read very informative (Now I at least know what a WIC-1T is at least!), but am still stumped on what I should get.

So far I've gotten 2 2950 switches. I'd originally planned on getting only 1, but accidentally won a 2nd via eBay auction, so I think I'm good for switches, but what about routers? Between my research and browsing eBay, I see 2500s, 2600s (2610? 2612? 2620?), 3620, 1720. I'm just confused!!! Can anyone help me out?

While I plan (knock on wood) on eventually going as far as CCNP, I'm not really planning that far ahead lab-wise; I'm just looking for something that'll get me through ICND1, and that I can add to for ICND2 as needed.

notgoing2fail

It's almost happened to me before where I almost won two items I bidded on. Because you get into a frenzy of bidding for items since you don't know which one you are going to win, so you have to play to win. LOL...

You'll want to simulate the serial WAN links. So on the cheap, get the 2500's series routers with serial ports along with the DCE/DTE V.35 cables to do the crossover. Those cables are cheap. Like $10-15 if not cheaper...

You can purchase two 2501's, they each come with 2 serial ports and an AUI interface.

They don't have an ethernet interface, which is where the transceiver comes to play. The transceiver will plug into the AUI and give you E0...

Then you can get a 1700's series router with 10/100 e0 port so you can do some 801.1Q trunking between your 2950 switches...

bermovick

Amazingly, I understood most of what you said! I'm not sure if I remember trunking mentioned in what I've studied so far - is that for ICND2?

2501's look like a pretty good price on eBay, although every one I've looked at so far just mention "powers up, no further testing", which worries me a bit. Other resellers have them quite a bit higher, but at least list how much memory they have - do I need to worry much about that or the IOS? (I found a REALLY nice listing for some but the IOS is 11.0 -- eww). A quick price check (non-eBay) for 2 2501's plus the dce/dte cable and 2 transceivers looks like about $145. Makes me wince a little, but I think I'd be done then.

notgoing2fail

bermovick wrote: »

Amazingly, I understood most of what you said! I'm not sure if I remember trunking mentioned in what I've studied so far - is that for ICND2?

2501's look like a pretty good price on eBay, although every one I've looked at so far just mention "powers up, no further testing", which worries me a bit. Other resellers have them quite a bit higher, but at least list how much memory they have - do I need to worry much about that or the IOS? (I found a REALLY nice listing for some but the IOS is 11.0 -- eww). A quick price check (non-eBay) for 2 2501's plus the dce/dte cable and 2 transceivers looks like about $145. Makes me wince a little, but I think I'd be done then.

Sorry I meant 802.1Q, not 801.1Q, there's no such thing. ha!

It might not be for the ICND1 exam, but it will definitely be for the ICND2. These routers are old, you won't get the latest IOS with them. They are only good for simulating the PPP/HDLC serial WAN links, that's just about it. You can do that in GNS3 if you want to set it up and save money. But the problem with GNS3 is that you would need to obtain a real IOS first...

You can always up the ante and get newer routers with serial ports. This way you can consolidate and get a router that already has an E0 or FA0 port so you can do the 802.1Q trunking. But then the costs go up....

I'd personally try to get a newer router with serial ports and one E0 port now that I think about it because the 2500 series routers are so old....

When people say powers up and no testing, I would steer clear, it's just not worth buying a sold AS-IS product...

bermovick

That was the impression I had too - there's no telling if there's even an IOS on them at all!.

With 2500's being that old, what about 2600 series? A pair of those, with a WIC-1T each looks to be about $180 from a quick check, and still be able to simulate the WAN connection and support a 12.? IOS if memory serves. I could go with something newer like you suggested, but I'd probably only be able to afford one which limits what I can do.

notgoing2fail

bermovick wrote: »

That was the impression I had too - there's no telling if there's even an IOS on them at all!.

Exactly! Seeing the green light and that's it doesn't mean jack!!!

bermovick wrote: »

With 2500's being that old, what about 2600 series? A pair of those, with a WIC-1T each looks to be about $180 from a quick check, and still be able to simulate the WAN connection and support a 12.? IOS if memory serves. I could go with something newer like you suggested, but I'd probably only be able to afford one which limits what I can do.

So are you saying you want to get a pair of 2600's for a total of $180? The IOS would definitely be 12.0+...better than anything 11!!!

I've never done a T1 crossover to simultate WAN. You would need to get a T1 crossover cable specifically for T1, not just a regular crossover cable if memory serves me right. But they aren't expensive at all, you can make one yourself...just get the pin outs for it since it's just RJ45...

I'm not sure about the clocking side of things since with serial, the one of the cables is a DCE so the router with the DCE cable does the clocking...

Other than that, I think it's just about the same thing....

If you get a 2600 series, I think everyone is saying to go for the 2600XM router series....

bermovick

Ah; I had thought the WIC-1T gave a serial link. Apparently I was wrong. I'll have to look into which module gives that.

I'd looked into 2600XM's, but they're significantly more costly than regular 2600's unfortunately.

blackninja

bermovick wrote: »

Ah; I had thought the WIC-1T gave a serial link. Apparently I was wrong. I'll have to look into which module gives that.

I'd looked into 2600XM's, but they're significantly more costly than regular 2600's unfortunately.

WIC-1T does give you a serial port and if you connect 2 with a DB60 crossover cable this will act as a WAN.

Don't go for 2500's, if you are short of cash go for at least 2 x 2610's and get a 1721/1751 with at least 64 Dram to practice SDM & SSH on. Get a 2521 for Frame relay. Put a WIC-1T in each router and connect to frame switch and you got yourself a decent lab

Corndork2

If you're willing to spend some significant time on eBay, you can find some much better deals. After a couple weeks of searching I grabbed 2x 2501 with transcievers and 16MB DRAM / 16MB Flash for $60 shipped. I also was able to score 2620XM's and 2610XM's with 128MB DRAM / 32MB Flash for about $66 each. Also rememeber to look into the 2650XM models. For some reason they're actually cheaper than the 2620XM's in most cases. Bottom line, just keep looking. Watch a bunch of items, and maintain spending limits. Also, make sure to place offers on buy it now items. I typically extend offers %50 below asking price and more times than not the seller accepts. Look for power sellers, as some are very willing to negotiate price. However, some major cisco equip. sellers, like Snappy-Seller, will not come down much on price. Just keep looking and keep placing offers. Eventually, you'll find the gear you want at the price you want.

Corndork2

Also if youre really in a bind for cash, you can save money by buying Chinese copies of WIC cards. They are significantly cheaper than genuine cisco parts, and work fine in a lab setting. I would not plan on using them in a lab environment. I got 4x WIC-1T copies from Hong Kong for $60.

Reibe

Corndork2 wrote: »

Also if youre really in a bind for cash, you can save money by buying Chinese copies of WIC cards. They are significantly cheaper than genuine cisco parts, and work fine in a lab setting. I would not plan on using them in a lab environment. I got 4x WIC-1T copies from Hong Kong for $60.

Wait, they work fine in a lab setting but you wouldn't use them in a lab environment? Did you by chance meant Production environment or did you really mean you wouldn't use them ven in a lab environment?

tiersten

Reibe wrote: »

Wait, they work fine in a lab setting but you wouldn't use them in a lab environment? Did you by chance meant Production environment or did you really mean you wouldn't use them ven in a lab environment?

I would assume that Corndork2 means production environment. Counterfeit cards may not even work at all initially and long term reliability may not be good so you're taking certain risks in purchasing one.

blackninja

tiersten wrote: »

I would assume that Corndork2 means production environment. Counterfeit cards may not even work at all initially and long term reliability may not be good so you're taking certain risks in purchasing one.

I got one and my 2610 didn't recognize card, got replacement and lasted 4 weeks

I would just get used genuine cards. A lot less trouble.

bermovick

Yeah, I'm usually not too interested in knock-offs, they're usually more trouble than they're worth.

As an update, I managed to snag 2 2610's with 12.2 IOS for $30 each (free shipping), thanks to corndork's 'make an offer' suggestion! Now all I need is the wic-1t's and the serial cable. Various cat-5 cabling too but I can pick that up locally for cheap so no worries.

Just for a bit of clarification, are all DTE/DCE cables crossover, or do I have to watch for this? I ask because I see some labelled back-to-back, and others explicitely stated as crossover. I'd assumed all were crossover (or they'd be DTE/DTE) but not 100% certain on that point now.

Thanks for all your assistance. I'm pretty confident that I've got a decent starting lab now.

notgoing2fail

bermovick wrote: »

Just for a bit of clarification, are all DTE/DCE cables crossover, or do I have to watch for this? I ask because I see some labelled back-to-back, and others explicitely stated as crossover. I'd assumed all were crossover (or they'd be DTE/DTE) but not 100% certain on that point now.

There's actually two types of cable so let me clarify.


You can get the V.35 cables that are a lot bigger, and they actually connect to each other, back to back, one female one male. That's probably the back to back they are talking about. I have one of those.

There other kind are a lot smaller and you can just connect one device to the other. There are no male/female parts in the middle....

blackninja

bermovick wrote: »

Just for a bit of clarification, are all DTE/DCE cables crossover, or do I have to watch for this? I ask because I see some labelled back-to-back, and others explicitely stated as crossover. I'd assumed all were crossover (or they'd be DTE/DTE) but not 100% certain on that point now.

Back to back, crossover & DTE/DCE are the same cable

For an example checkout: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5FT-Cisco-Back-to-Back-DB60-Crossover-Cable-DCE-DTE_W0QQitemZ160423057943QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item2559f59a17#ht_1725wt_1167

If you go for the WIC-1T, make sure you get the DB60 back to back/crosover cable.

bermovick

ACK! I'd gotten DB9. Alas.