Network Engineers and Microsoft certs?

itdaddy

Wanting to be a network engineer, do I have to be a an MCSE or MCITP certfied along with my cisco certs?

I mean can't I just get cisco certs and not have to worry about
getting MS certs. I would rather focus on cisco all the way.

I mean I have Microsoft experience working with AD, DNS, WINS, GPO, and others but I would like to concentrate on cisco certs only along
with my BS in computer science and my 6 years as a system admin
should help me get into something network engineer. My goals are to get

ccnp, ccvp, ccsp, ccip, ccdp and ccnp(wifi).. and then crash and burn and work in the network engineering field but I have a novice point of few of what employers want and am not savvy on knowing what I may need.
I would rather focus on cisco and specialize in cisco engineering but will I be able to get a decent job without MS certs? I mean some of you guys are MCSE/CCNP/CCSP etc...but I want to focus on cisco entirely. I dont mind working with servers and OSs and vmware this and that. I like it all but I dont think I want certs in MS..am I killing my career or what?

I mean I cannot know it all but I can sure specialize in what I know huh?
am I stupid (limiting myself) or what? thanks guys.

Bl8ckr0uter

Alot of the Network Engineering positions in my neck of the woods require MS certs (or at least MS experience). I live near a few ISPs so Linux is huge as well.

itdaddy

there are these jobs:

network admin

systems engineer

network analyst

network engineer

seems like network engineer/analyst you can specialize

but systems engineer/network admin are a variety pack of pro certs
can anyone confirm what I see. I mean I see some guys just specialize
like chris bryant, jeremy Ciora (Cbt nuggets), you have some that specialize and some who dont. I see some of you are only cisco and you seem to do fine..are you forced to get ms certified? I mean I dont mind learning more about OSs and Linux stuff just dont want to be certified in them only cisco..am I being lazy..or frugal? hee hee

are we still in the era where you have to have a 360 degree cert pack to do well in network engineering?

impelse

You need some MS exp. (You already mention that you have it) and you can specialize in Cisco like routing/switching, security, voice, etc.

I read some ad jobs that said Network Engineer and they ask MCSE and CCNP (sometimes linux), so its depend of what you want and do not forget your market area (what they require).

However, some jobs require only Cisco and others a mix.

ColbyG

I have no MS certs, nor do I touch servers at all (aside from ACS and some misc tools, but I'm still not managing the server).

A network engineering position at a large enterprise will typically be very specialized. You run the network gear and that's about it. Some positions will also have a little Linux thrown in, but, in my experience, there is no Microsoft stuff.

mikedisd2

I figure you'll need some MS knowhow, like what ports are used between the Exchange 2007 roles, or you may need to troubleshoot when a server noob can't get his ISA box to function as expected.

laidbackfreak

I've got no MS certs, but have plenty of experience, tho I'm slowly forgetting most of my MS kowledge as I dont touch it beyond my own little world.
As long as you have some experience and understanding you should be good to go. The real problem lies in getting your first networking gig.

bobnet

I'm in the UK and it could be different in the US but it seems at entry / CCNA level there is next to zero chance of seeing job listings that just want a network engineer. Every job I've seen at this level wants at least MS as well as networking; typically Cisco. Some job listings are ridiculous, low pay and an entry level theme except they want everything - Cisco, Linux, Microsoft, SQL etc. A year ago when looking at job sites I was seeing at least a few specialised network roles at entry level, so I think it's an effect of the economy. Jobs postings are getting hundreds of over qualified applicants who are more than happy to take less money. I've seen some profiles on Monster's database and the wage some people are willing to take is driving everything down and giving employers more power to pay less and demand more.

Once you get to the CCNP level jobs there tends to be more specialised roles. Sometimes security and voice for example are mixed in, and sometimes there is still a mention of MS experience but more as an 'advantage' rather than an imperative. There are still jobs out there for pure networking, thankfully.

I've come to realisation that coming out of Uni with only networking experience and a CCNA is not enough and I'm going to have to do MS certs to even get a job.

shodown

In all of my Cisco jobs post military, there has been very little need for server administration besides Unity, and ICM servers(voip stuff) in my pure routing and switching jobs I haven't touched a server. With that being said, I think having MCSA knowledge (or the new name) might not be bad to have. A basic knowledge of active directory, and DNS is a good thing with a side of nix. Also if your after a pure networking job the area you live in is key. When I lived in mineapolis there were plenty of CISCO jobs around as there were various NOC's and service providers around. In Milwaukee not so much.

chrisone

ColbyG wrote: »

I have no MS certs, nor do I touch servers at all (aside from ACS and some misc tools, but I'm still not managing the server).

A network engineering position at a large enterprise will typically be very specialized. You run the network gear and that's about it. Some positions will also have a little Linux thrown in, but, in my experience, there is no Microsoft stuff.

Ditto, no need for any microsoft training in order to be a network engineer/professional. Plently of jobs out there for dedicated network professionals from engineers , Network admins, Architects, and Jr Net Admins. Stick to your cisco studies if you want to stay with only network technologies.

mikej412

If you've got the networking skills and the opportunity to use them, then you could probably get away without any other non-networking vendor certifications.

If your 6 years as a box jockey was in a data center, then you might at least have been in the same room as the big boy toys -- so you might be able to hang out with the cool kids (the network guys) and shift away from the dark side.

If you're not dazzling anyone with your Cisco/Juniper networking knowledge & skills (and certifications), then you might want to get the MS certs (and then some) and use your box skills to land a data center job -- which could give you some access to some Networking opportunities (as in both data/voice networking and the schmoozing type of networking where you're near the same areas as the Network Guys/Gals and bring them donuts & bagles in the morning/evening and buy them pizza for lunch/dinner).

Tossing in some Linux also increases your chance of a data center gig -- and access to the Networking Elite.

itdaddy

mikej

dude you should have been a writer/comedian. I mean your humor kills me but you still get your message across loud and clear. Funny how you can be silly and still get your message across.

I guess I just want to give myself to the concentration of NE vs box management. To me as a net engineer, it is all protocols and sockets and ports. I don't need to know much else. even though my experience is in box management for the most part. I have noticed like in small outfits you have the jack of all trades MCSE/CCNP type who does it all and then in larger places they seem to specialize more. which I think I would like to head. I mean I have been in the small place and have done many things of which are totally cool but would like to narrow myself... thanks mikej for your humor and wisdom. I hear you loud and clear man!...;)

I appreciate your insight

chrisone

Keep in mind many and most small places need folks that specialize in certain abilities as well. No one has it all or knows everything. "If your good at doing something, never do it for free! - Joker

Forsaken_GA

i have an MCP, but it's never been a factor when it comes to network jobs. You have to look beyond the job title. Network Administrator, for example, can in alot of cases really be read as "System Administrator, oh and we want you to deal with the small amount of network gear we have as well". I've got a few friends who have been suckered in with promises of working on routers and switches only to find out a year later that they're really an Exchange admin

itdaddy

[
I've got a few friends who have been suckered in with promises of working on routers and switches only to find out a year later that they're really an Exchange admin
/QUOTE]

Forsaken_GA

hahahhaaha that is so funny (not really) but yep these job descriptions are so funny..they want you to be an MCSE/MCITP expert and a CCNP CCSP
and Voip expert all rolled in one...you know the line "it would be good if you knew this and that and this and that...oh yeah and can you computer program since you are an IT expert!? huh huh? yeah like a doctor's job
you know doctors do it all since they are a doctor...same rap.

thanks for your input

Ahriakin

I'd agree with Mike. As you've probably found it can be pretty hard to break into the Network Engineering side, experience is a much higher priority than with the server side (and it's harder to get in the first place because of this, that good old catch 22 just got...erm....catchier...;) ). Getting your MS certs will make it easier to be in a position where you at least get some exposure to the network equipment (usually in a medium sized company that requires a server admin with some cisco skills), which in turn puts enough fuel behind your Cisco certs to land your first 'real' engineering role.
Also having some server knowledge will be a boon regardless, whether it's understanding the underlying traffic on your network or in your interaction with them (e.g. AAA to Active Directory, Certificate services etc.)

itdaddy

Ahriakin

so you are saying if I got my ccnp, ccvp, ccsp I would be entry level job in pure net engineeing if I didnt get my mcitp along with it? and my BS degree in Computer Science and 6 years system admin exp?

so you and mike suggest I find a system admin only and not a pure net engineering job due to the fact I don't have lots of experience in pure net engineering and I only have the certs in them..? is this right?

just curious... I know there no absolutes..

just want you to clarify it. I guess I always thing that getting my
ccnp, ccvp, and ccsp isnt really a entry level guy? but if i have mcitp-ea
in addition it will help me get a sys admin to get close to the big dogs!?

networker050184

itdaddy wrote: »

Ahriakin

so you are saying if I got my ccnp, ccvp, ccsp I would be entry level job in pure net engineeing if I didnt get my mcitp along with it? and my BS degree in Computer Science and 6 years system admin exp?

so you and mike suggest I find a system admin only and not a pure net engineering job due to the fact I don't have lots of experience in pure net engineering and I only have the certs in them..? is this right?

just curious... I know there no absolutes..

just want you to clarify it. I guess I always thing that getting my
ccnp, ccvp, and ccsp isnt really a entry level guy? but if i have mcitp-ea
in addition it will help me get a sys admin to get close to the big dogs!?

Certifications do not give you an experience level. You can have a CCIE and still be "entry level" as far as employers are concerned. Whether you have an MCTIP-EA or not really has zero to do with it.

I think what Ahriakin is getting at is that its usually easier for people to make a lateral move into networking from a systems administration role rather than having zero IT experience. Network or Systems Engineering roles are usually for the more experienced and qualified individuals, not people new to the technology.

itdaddy

I get it.
Hey thanks for the clarify...not sure a CCIE would be entry level though?
thanks so much

earweed

One of the basic things is that no matter what the cert, you're still entry level without the experience. Getting the experience is the big thing.

rsutton

My title is "Network Administrator" - I work on MS servers all day long and occasional a piece of networking equipment. There are two people in the IT department. It's easier to specialize in a larger company.

Hyper-Me

mikej412 wrote: »

-- so you might be able to hang out with the cool kids (the network guys) and shift away from the dark side.

Hey now, dont make me report this post

apena7

itdaddy wrote: »

I get it.
Hey thanks for the clarify...not sure a CCIE would be entry level though?
thanks so much

I think what they mean is that you can self-study and earn the CCNA, CCNP, and CCIE certifications and still be considered entry-level because your knowledge will be all "book" and no "street." The same can be said of those that earn the MCITP:EA without any professional experience.

itdaddy

cool man cool!