Feeling very discouraged with my job.

/usr

I've had problems for some time with my job. In particular, the way the company is ran and the way my boss runs this department.

We just now ended up having a casual conversation about certifications. It started by him bashing a contractor we're working with on a job. He was telling me the guy would take an hour to tell me about his various certifications, but how he didn't know anything at all.

That proceeded to him telling me how much IT certifications have been devalued over the past few years and how he'd rather hire someone with a college degree. I said "That's true, depending on which certification you're talking about, as well as the individual." I was referring to the endless amount of **** for MS exams and how anyone can pass anything, but it's the effort that goes into it which makes the certification valuable, not the piece of paper.

Without me even mentioning anything about Cisco certifications, he started going on about how if you study for higher level Cisco certs then you have to actually work with the equipment (not necessarily true), but "They're teaching the CCNA in high school now" and that "the stuff that's on your CCNA is going to be outdated in 2 years."

Keep in mind that this was a completely casual conversation and I more or less just nodded my head in agreement, but I sincerely felt that was a low blow directly towards me, like he was almost trying to devalue me as an employee. I'm the only one here with any certs. Regardless of whether or not that was his intention in this particular case, I feel like he uses this viewpoint as a defense, so I don't make him feel dumb because the fact is, I am more technically knowledgeable that he is and I feel he has a problem with that.

Also...I've caught him lying in the past, also. I've observed him put CCNA on a resume, when he's only taken a CCNA class. He never studied or sat for the exam. He's also told me that he had an MCSE, but he let it expire. Considering MS certs don't "expire", I know that's also a lie.

This just...I don't know. I can overlook a whole lot of bullshit, but this was really just an earth shattering realization to me. I feel like this is going to be how it is forever. I feel like all my work here will be undervalued and under appreciated. I feel disgusted.

Funny enough, reviews are coming up at the beginning of next month, and I already apparently know that my CCNA means jack **** as far as that goes, because he basically just told me so.

And to think I was offered that job last year making $10k more than what I do now, because I had my CCNA...

Anymore, for reasons other than this, it's been so hard to find any sort of real motivation to actually care for this place. I want to...I sincerely do, but every time I find it, it slips away from me because I feel so undervalued and overworked.

I've tried to remain optimistic since the start of this year, but I find that's waning more and more each day. I'm not sure where to jump from here...jobs around this area are scarce, let alone an IT job good enough for me to jump ship here.

Bleh...

darkerosxx

Completely feel your pain. I'm not in that situation now, but I've been there in other places.

My advice: there are plenty of places around the nation that will appreciate what you have to offer. If you have to move to get a position at one of those places that will make you happy to walk in the door everyday, it's worth it. Just my 2c.

pwjohnston

/usr wrote: »

Funny enough, reviews are coming up at the beginning of next month, and I already apparently know that my CCNA means jack **** as far as that goes, because he basically just told me so.

Do you think that maybe this was just a preemptive strike ahead of time to devalue you so that he doesn't have to give you a raise?

I know many employers are using the economy as an excuse not to give raises. (To staff not executives of course).

/usr

I don't know, to be honest with you. I expect a small raise because it's been mentioned, but nowhere near what I deserve. I'm basing "what I deserve" on what similar positions pay and what I've personally been offered for similar jobs.

I think it's more than his entire outlook of IT in general just isn't that accurate. He's got a degree and no certifications.

You know, almost every single IT job posting anymore mentions desired certifications and I've been complimented in pretty much every interview I've had for being so persistent in studying throughout the years. It seems like he devalues the entire certification industry and I sincerely feel that it's because he doesn't have any. The idea that a college degree > all certifications blows my mind, as people can and do **** their way through college also.

I don't know, really. I think I'll start looking around again.

Zartanasaurus

/usr wrote: »

he's also told me that he had an mcse, but he let it expire. Considering ms certs don't "expire", i know that's also a lie.

? ? ?

impelse

The IT manager told me many times that we do need the certifications in this office, and sometimes he said: "I am so intelligent to study for certifications, I have something more important things to do".jsajsjsajaajajaaj

Now, I got a new job that I will beging next month and now he does not know what to do with the whole network by himself without Cisco, servers and VoIp knowledge. So keep studying and keep looking for.

SrSysAdmin

/usr wrote: »

I don't know, to be honest with you. I expect a small raise because it's been mentioned, but nowhere near what I deserve. I'm basing "what I deserve" on what similar positions pay and what I've personally been offered for similar jobs.

I think it's more than his entire outlook of IT in general just isn't that accurate. He's got a degree and no certifications.

You know, almost every single IT job posting anymore mentions desired certifications and I've been complimented in pretty much every interview I've had for being so persistent in studying throughout the years. It seems like he devalues the entire certification industry and I sincerely feel that it's because he doesn't have any. The idea that a college degree > all certifications blows my mind, as people can and do **** their way through college also.

I don't know, really. I think I'll start looking around again.

I have both certs and a degree...but I think you have a poor view of what a degree brings to the table.

Rather than externalizing the problem why not just a degree yourself so that you won't be in this position in the future?

In my opinion (and the opinion of MOST, not just those in the IT world), a degree is far more valuable than any certification.

fly351

Well I laughed when I seen the title of this thread

He sounds old-school... in the sense that he is unwilling to change his views, resulting in lack of knowledge and unable to change with technology. I laugh to myself when people say "Oh I am CCNP" or "I am MCSE" and I say "Oh when did you take that?" And they reply that the certs are expired. So no you are not certified, stop saying you are...

As far as the highschool/CCNA stuff, that might be true but that doesn't mean they are passing the certs. Regardless, it just shows that we (society) are beginning our careers and looking out for our futures at a younger age. I know a guy that had his B.S. in IT Security at the age of 20. Once again, an ignorant "view" or opinion.

So what if the material changes every 2/3 years, the core information doesn't. Yes, more material brought down from the CCNP level, new technologies added, etc. But you have a core understanding of CCNA level material.

Oh well... GL in finding a new job.

subl1m1nal

Yeah, I'd start looking dude. No need to bash your certs to make himself look better. If you're unhappy, and can make more money elsewhere, it's time to go. Otherwise, you could consider going to his supervisor and asking for more responsibilities, however, be prepared with this. His boss may try to redelegate it to your boss, who may take offense to you backdooring him.

I have a 2 year degree and an array of certs. To be honest, and as a past hiring IS manager, I value certs more than degrees. While its true that anybody can **** through a cert test, anybody can muddle their way through college. I can't tell you how many dumb people I graduated with, and I can honestly say most of those dumb people are not working in IT. Certifications often require in depth knowledge and hands on experience.

MentholMoose

/usr wrote: »

It seems like he devalues the entire certification industry and I sincerely feel that it's because he doesn't have any.

A lot of people simply have no knowledge of certs, and some people by default have a negative view of what they don't understand. You could try to enlighten him, or not, it's up to you.

Paul Boz

your situation is one of the reasons I left my last job at an ISP. I took the personal time and initiative to earn my CCNA and when I asked my boss about any potential compensation down the road he basically said "if we gave raises for certifications every time someone got one people would get a new CCNA every day." It made me realize how devalued my time and effort was for him to think just anyone could get the cert in a day. I had the same conversation after getting a number of Cisco certs but it never went anywhere. It was hard for me to justify having a CCNP while earning $17/hr so I moved on.

impelse

Paul Boz wrote: »

It was hard for me to justify having a CCNP while earning $17/hr so I moved on.

Right decision

subl1m1nal

impelse wrote: »

Right decision

Ditto. Good for you man.

/usr

I have both certs and a degree...but I think you have a poor view of what a degree brings to the table.

Rather than externalizing the problem why not just a degree yourself so that you won't be in this position in the future?

In my opinion (and the opinion of MOST, not just those in the IT world), a degree is far more valuable than any certification.

I also have an associates and a bachelors in Management Information Systems.

Devilsbane

Certs may carry less weight than they did in the past. But they are still far superior (in my opinion at least) to a college degree. Not bashing the degree at all, but how easy is it to get a college degree. If you put in the time your going to get it. Certifications actually require you to study and then take a test that has been designed to make you fail.

There are lots of people running around with certs and no knowledge to back them up. But there are far more running around with college degrees they somehow managed to get while drinking and partying 5 nights a week.

He probably devalues those certs because he's jealous that he doesn't have them and doesn't want someone to show him up. Funny how you never really get out of highschool.

thenjduke

humble2007 wrote: »

Certs may carry less weight than they did in the past. But they are still far superior (in my opinion at least) to a college degree. Not bashing the degree at all, but how easy is it to get a college degree. If you put in the time your going to get it. Certifications actually require you to study and then take a test that has been designed to make you fail.

There are lots of people running around with certs and no knowledge to back them up. But there are far more running around with college degrees they somehow managed to get while drinking and partying 5 nights a week.

He probably devalues those certs because he's jealous that he doesn't have them and doesn't want someone to show him up. Funny how you never really get out of highschool.

I am going for both degree and certs and let me tell you it depends where you go to college for a degree. Right now I am attending Devry and there entire course is based off Cisco Press material. It is interesting but you have to put time and effort into both and you learn from both.

subl1m1nal

humble2007 wrote: »

There are lots of people running around with certs and no knowledge to back them up. But there are far more running around with college degrees they somehow managed to get while drinking and partying 5 nights a week.

He probably devalues those certs because he's jealous that he doesn't have them and doesn't want someone to show him up. Funny how you never really get out of highschool.

My thoughts exactly. I graduated with a guy who was busted for pot once in college, and twice after college. Guess what he's doing? Delivering pizzas.

Not to knock degrees, but I feel experience and certifications are more valuable. Your boss is jealous and doesn't want you to one-up him, so he bashes your certs.

phoeneous

/usr wrote: »

he started going on about how if you study for higher level Cisco certs then you have to actually work with the equipment (not necessarily true)

Not necessarily false either. What would you think of a CCNP thats never touched real equipment?

/usr wrote: »

Considering MS certs don't "expire", I know that's also a lie.

Did he mean to say "retire"? For example, MCSE NT4 is now retired.

earweed

The OP here seems to have some valid points for being upset. That being said it would prbably be wise for him to start looking elsewhere if he's unhappy with where he's at. He's gained some valuable experience working there and it will probably help him to find a better job somewhere else.

Pash

I have had worse. How about your boss and your customer (IT manager of the said client) both round on you and devalue certifications in general?

Don't get me wrong, I am OK with understanding that certs does not breed complete working practice intelligence in IT, but it really does help get a grasp. Especially when you are correcting the same boss on his subnetting skills, swearing blind that a /27 mask allows for 14 hosts per subnet. Well if 15 years of experience brings out those mistakes, then I guess I will be an outright genius in the same amount of time

tpatt100

When I was working on certs I had coworkers tell me certs were worthless. When I got my degree I had coworkers tell me a degree is worthless.

Years later I know for a fact I make more than they do and I got recruited by a very large defense company.

Negative people will always try and drag you down to make themselves feel better.

F' em is what I say

Devilsbane

tpatt100 wrote: »

F' em is what I say

Can I get an Amen?

thenjduke

humble2007 wrote: »

Can I get an Amen?

Amen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GamingCrazy

/usr wrote: »

I don't know, to be honest with you. I expect a small raise because it's been mentioned, but nowhere near what I deserve. I'm basing "what I deserve" on what similar positions pay and what I've personally been offered for similar jobs.

I think it's more than his entire outlook of IT in general just isn't that accurate. He's got a degree and no certifications.

You know, almost every single IT job posting anymore mentions desired certifications and I've been complimented in pretty much every interview I've had for being so persistent in studying throughout the years. It seems like he devalues the entire certification industry and I sincerely feel that it's because he doesn't have any. The idea that a college degree > all certifications blows my mind, as people can and do **** their way through college also.

I don't know, really. I think I'll start looking around again.

Sounds like he is using you, or more likely trying to shape you to make budget cuts. If you let him walk all over you, he will do so. It's the nature of the business, I would look around and see if your "future job" potentially shows up. I don't know if you hold value (Not to say in a bad way), but if your expertise holds a company together you are also valuable at the other end of the deal.

If he interprets that you have a manipulative personality, he will use it against you. The best boss, is one that is kind, caring, but still caries out the characteristics and duties of a boss.

GamingCrazy

Another thing to consider is your time in the field, if you have over 5 years of cummulative experience working in the general area you have, well than you have something to bring to the table.

And a raise is definately it, Experience is everything, knowledge is useless if you don't have the experience to back it up. That's why bootcamps are ineffective if you aren't going back to a job to apply what you have learned.

GamingCrazy

thenjduke wrote: »

I am going for both degree and certs and let me tell you it depends where you go to college for a degree. Right now I am attending Devry and there entire course is based off Cisco Press material. It is interesting but you have to put time and effort into both and you learn from both.

To succeed in the IT Field, and anywhere.. You have to put time and effort into ANYTHING you learn.