Between MCITP and MCM

RobertKaucher

Hyper’s post on the new entry level certs from MS made me want to bring this topic up again, but from another angle.
Many of us have stated we wanted to see an “expert” level certification that sits between the MCITP and the MCM as the MCM is cost prohibitive at close to an actual cost of $25,000 if you consider the expenses of travel and missed work. What I would like to know is what do you think would be important for this certification? In my opinion I would like to see the following for SQL Server:
1. Requires both the MCITP DBA and DB Developer certs for prerequisites.
2. Requires 3-5 years of work experience.
3. Requires around 4 exams of which at least 2 should be fully performance based (ie VM technology).
4. Should include some sort of review board to ensure candidates are properly vetted.
5. Should allow for specialization or emphasis in the exams (you could pick DR/HA, development, performance tuning).
What are your thoughts? I would be willing to spend $3000 on a certpath like this.

Hyper-Me

I've said it before, id love to see a middle-ground cert like this for Active Directory or "Enterprise" management (bigger badder EA).

It's also something I would be willing to spend 3,000$ on. You know, a real excluseisve cert. Not just some fast-track class that may or may not be worthless.

RobertKaucher

What would be the criteria, in your opinion, to ensure it had that sort of value?

Claymoore

RobertKaucher wrote: »

What would be the criteria, in your opinion, to ensure it had that sort of value?

How about 3 weeks of training in Redmond? Wait, now we're back to the same requirements as the Master. The prerequisite certifications and experience isn't the issue with the Master certs, it's the time and expense of the training in Redmond that can really run north of $40k if you consider the cost of the class and lost billable hours.

If we were to propose one week of classroom training of $5k or so, what would that week cover that was above and beyond the requirements for the prerequisite exams? How would you assess that the attendees learned the material? If you did a week of advanced troubleshooting you could have a lab practical the last morning of class, but what happens if you fail it? If you sat through a week of advanced design, would you have to suffer through a design exams similar to 297,298 or 285?

I think the MVP program fits in nicely between the MCITP and the MCM. It's a peer-recognized award that measures your contribution to the community. No class or travel involved - all you need is a Wordpress membership and some useful information on your blog. There is no way to **** or **** to get it and it has to be renewed every year. HR folks may not recognize it, but there is always the chance that the tech interviewer will recognize you from your blog.

RobertKaucher

Claymoore wrote: »

How about 3 weeks of training in Redmond? Wait, now we're back to the same requirements as the Master. The prerequisite certifications and experience isn't the issue with the Master certs, it's the time and expense of the training in Redmond that can really run north of $40k if you consider the cost of the class and lost billable hours.

If we were to propose one week of classroom training of $5k or so, what would that week cover that was above and beyond the requirements for the prerequisite exams? How would you assess that the attendees learned the material? If you did a week of advanced troubleshooting you could have a lab practical the last morning of class, but what happens if you fail it? If you sat through a week of advanced design, would you have to suffer through a design exams similar to 297,298 or 285?

I think the MVP program fits in nicely between the MCITP and the MCM. It's a peer-recognized award that measures your contribution to the community. No class or travel involved - all you need is a Wordpress membership and some useful information on your blog. There is no way to **** or **** to get it and it has to be renewed every year. HR folks may not recognize it, but there is always the chance that the tech interviewer will recognize you from your blog.

Good point. But I have heard many people, including MVPs, level the criticism that some very good people who do not contribute in the way MS is really expecting for this credential, are skipped over. Also, while MVP does include only highly knowledgeable people, it is mostly an award for community building and should stand on its own as such. It’s not a certification and there is an important difference between what the MVP title demonstrates and what a certification measures. Not everyone who is knowledgeable and skilled has the time or even the ability to do the community building required by the MVP title. I think it is a telling bit of information that many MVPs are also public speakers.

I just don't think the MVP program was created to fill the gap that I am seeing.

Hyper-Me

I agree with Robert. I've seen far to many MVPs that simply have the time to post non-stop on blogs and forums, and often are simply rewording technet documents.

Its not much proof of anything, knowledge wise.

A 1-2 week class with a lab practical that can be done by testing centers other than Redmon (as in, local or in a closer city) that costs 1-2k would be reasonable I think.