Newbie studying to become an MSCA

JapFreak786

First of all hi to everyone,great site i only discovered it today while reading up on 70-270 for my revision.

I'm currently signed up with a local training centre that only does IT. I'm on the MSCA course,and so far have covered 4 weeks of centre based teaching and now am on leave to revise and sit my XP & Server exams.

Some background on me :

Finished university in 2009 in the science field,however realised half way thorough my course it wasn't for me as a career but finished it anyway. I work near enough full time in a cinema as a projectionist,and have had a love for computers ever since i first used one.

I do not have any experience in the IT field,and no qualifications in IT yet,the first 2 weeks of the course covered basic A+ infomation,but no exams were sat to gain the cert's.
Currently revising the first module on 70-270 XP and hoping to sit the exam this month,and also try and sit my 70-290 Server in May,but i doubt that will happen...

I've been given TestOut,MeasureUp and pdf file's of Cram,Sybex and Microsoft for XP,and Cram & Sybex for server,along with virtual pc software.

Is there anything else that I can look into and read,other advise/tips/help?

In an ideal world i'd love to become MSCA by August,and become MCSE in 18 months after,going on to do CCNA & CCNP eventually aswell.

Is there anything I should avoid? I do NOT want to **** in the exam,in the end i'm just cheating myself out of a job as i'll end up getting fired within a month as i'll be as useful as chocolate teapot.

Thanks for reading

Bl8ckr0uter

It is gonna be tough but you are going to have to get experience. A JR helpdesk position or some type of role of that nature will probably be where you start. Other possibilities are low level business analyst positions, or maybe a jr network support tech. The position isn't as important at this stage in the game. The main thing will be getting some type of exp on your resume. You have a degree so you might have a quarter to a half step on non degreed people. Also if you have a great personality you should at least be able to get into a Customer Support positions.

JapFreak786 wrote: »

In an ideal world i'd love to become MSCA by August,and become MCSE in 18 months after,going on to do CCNA & CCNP eventually aswell.

For someone just starting out, I might suggest not doing the MCSA/E and focusing on the MCITP Microsoft Learning: Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP) There are numerous different ones to acquire, I suggest you start off with the client, helpdesk oriented ones first then go for the server oriented ones. HOWEVER, you may want to go the MCSA>MCITP:SA or EA route (I will probably be taking this route, depending on whether or not I get this job I am waiting on). There are still a lot of server 2003 servers out there.

The CCNA/CCNP in 18 months with no experience is going to be pretty hard to do, cocurrenty with the MS stuff. I won't say it can't be done but it will be very hard. Also know that the CCNP is not an entry level certification and a lot of people will look down on you if you do not have at least a few years of Cisco exp with it. I think that (overall) you could probably go further with some entry/mid level MS certs and possibly a CCNA then going for a CCNP and some entry level MS certs imo.

Obviously the ideal way to get exp would be to work an IT job but some people here have suggested volunteering as an alternative way to get something on your resume. Does the school you went to have a career placement program or something?

JapFreak786 wrote: »

Is there anything I should avoid? I do NOT want to **** in the exam,in the end i'm just cheating myself out of a job as i'll end up getting fired within a month as i'll be as useful as chocolate teapot.

Brain ****, "Training companies" (just because of the cost) and lying (in interviews or on the job).

JapFreak786

thanks for the post,i'm already with a training company,although the cost isn't extreme,a company wanted me to pay £5500 for a course,i've managed to get the MCSA for £4000 less!!

Brain ****? what do those mean exactly,totally a noob question i know but just so i do'nt drop myself in it at a later date,lol

i will be applying for jobs in the field asap,at the moment i'm just wanting to atleast pass my XP and become MCP'd,I will volunteer for work if I need to gain experience,I was expecting that really anyway.

Thanks for your input,i'm sure i'll be reading alot of info from this forum

Devilsbane

I'm on the same route. Lots of stuff to remember.

JapFreak786

Devilsbane wrote: »

I'm on the same route. Lots of stuff to remember.

sure is,i've put the 3 XP books that are PDF file's onto my phone,so I can read them anywhere I go,I was hoping to pass both XP and Server in May,but I can cleary see that isn't going to be possible,I want to go into the exams confident in passing

apparently,the server exam's have now changed,and instead of a few "lab" style questions and alot of multiple choice,it's now a few mulitple choices and alot of lab style questions where you type/carry out what you would do in real life,like adding a new user via command prompt etc etc

Plantwiz

JapFreak786 wrote: »

sure is,i've put the 3 XP books that are PDF file's onto my phone,so I can read them anywhere I go,I was hoping to pass both XP and Server in May,but I can cleary see that isn't going to be possible,I want to go into the exams confident in passing

apparently,the server exam's have now changed,and instead of a few "lab" style questions and alot of multiple choice,it's now a few mulitple choices and alot of lab style questions where you type/carry out what you would do in real life,like adding a new user via command prompt etc etc

Not to burst your fun...and I am a HUGE XP fan, but you do realize that XP is 2 OS ago and support ends for it in July, right?

Oct 21, 2001 was when XP launched, so by know, you are likely ready to test on it. Today is the 11th. Certainly you can prep and take this exam in the next two weeks, right?

MCSA has been replaced with MCITP, so finish it up quickly (I understand wanting to finish it), but you are working with an OS that is moving out of the production environment (ok...about as quickly as W98 did, but it is leaving) and the Vendor (MS) is really pumping Windows 7.

I suspect you are ready for at least that exam. Which texts are you using?

JapFreak786

yep i thought that XP would end sooner than later,however I didn't think it'll be that soon.

I have pdf files of Cram,Cyber & the Microsoft book,along with virtual PC software,measure up & test out software.
I only started XP last month,and i'm not in a position to sit an exam right now,but I will be by the end of next week hopefully as i'm spending 3/4 hour's a day atleast reading and making my own notes,i learn by writing stuff out..

I will be looking at taking further exams,"upgrades" as I call them to the new OS,like Windows 7,Server '10 etc as they are avaliable and once I am ready to do so.

I want to finish it asap,but at the same time want to make sure i learn what i'm doing and remember it,and my initial aim was to have the MCSA done by July 31st this year,this is still my aim but it's up to me I guess on how soon i do it.

Thanks again for the input though,highlighing some things i actually forgot about...

mikedisd2

Plantwiz wrote: »

Not to burst your fun...and I am a HUGE XP fan, but you do realize that XP is 2 OS ago and support ends for it in July, right?

MS will retire XP in 2014. There's no mention of the 70-270 exam retiring on the MS certs page. Where does it say that support ends in July?

Windows XP Mainstream Support retired, but no need to worry

Devilsbane

At one point I think it was July, but it has been saved 2 or 3 times because corporations thought Vista and 7 were crap and don't want to retrain all of their employees how to deal with the new GUI.

shon541

Support ends in July for Windows XP SP2. SP3 is still going to be supported.

Devilsbane

This is my personal belief, and I know for a fact that there are many people that disagree.

XP isn't going anywhere for quite some time. Despite Microsoft trying to push for windows 7 migration, I think that the majority of companies will hold onto xp until they are forced to change. For those implementing windows 7, from what I have seen it is a slow migration. Rather than deploy windows 7 to all pc's they are updating critical systems and putting it on computers that were going to be replaced anyway. So if your company's policy is to replace pc's every 3 years, and you just got a new one last week with XP on it. You will probably be using xp until 3 years from now when you get a new one.

I interviewed for a position a few months ago that was rolling out windows 7 for a hospital. Their policy was something like the one listed above. After the interview I spoke with the woman for about 10 minutes about why she would like to stay with xp. One thing she said that sticks with me is "Your computer should be a tool to help you, not hinder." She was referring to the fact that windows 7 has completely changed the taskbar and start menu, something that isn't too hard for us to pick up on. But now place yourself in the shoes of a 50 year old who never grew up with a computer and has just finally figured out how to use his own. Now he needs to learn how to use a different one, just to do the job that he was able to do fine previously.

(I was offered that job, but declined for a different position.)

Plantwiz

shon541 wrote: »

Support ends in July for Windows XP SP2. SP3 is still going to be supported.

YEP, that what I meant and didn't type



Product Support Lifecycle
Microsoft Support Lifecycle


Windows XP Service Pack 3 4/21/2008

Support ends 24 months after the next service pack releases or at the end of the product's support lifecycle, whichever comes first. For more information, please see the service pack policy at Please Verify your Location .


@Devilsbane

This is my personal belief, and I know for a fact that there are many people that disagree.

XP isn't going anywhere for quite some time. Despite Microsoft trying to push for windows 7 migration, I think that the majority of companies will hold onto xp until they are forced to change.

Nothing different then we saw when folks continued to use W98.

Today though, MS ties updates/revisions of IE and other software to the OS and one is only permitted to upgrade those applications for a point, and force an OS upgrade.

Example, Banks are forcing the use of IE 7 or later and when IE9 launches it is not supposed to run on XP.

If a business (such as a bank) requires that access to their web portal is only done via IE 'x' then folks may be forced to upgrade earlier then the useful life of the OS (in this instance XP).

I too enjoy XP, but I already have several clients who have been forced to upgrade by their 3rd Party Apps to Windows 7. I think we're going to see this handled differently then we saw with W98.

phoeneous

An mcsa/e without experience is useless. Focus on client exams and try to get a helpdesk job. Good luck.

Devilsbane

phoeneous wrote: »

An mcsa/e without experience is useless. Focus on client exams and try to get a helpdesk job. Good luck.

It isn't useless. It could be what gets you that helpdesk job.

pennystrader

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phoeneous

Devilsbane wrote: »

It isn't useless. It could be what gets you that helpdesk job.

Would you hire an mcse without experience for a helpdesk job?

Devilsbane

phoeneous wrote: »

Would you hire an mcse without experience for a helpdesk job?

Why not? Would you hire someone with an A+ and no experience for a help desk job? I would think a person holding an MCSE is going to be more knowledgeable than a person with an A+. He might not have all of the customer service things down, but those are easily picked up.

JapFreak786

well a slight update,had a few set backs with personal stuff,don't think XP will be passed in May,but i'm doing more reading now than i was before,and also starting to use testout finally,was just sticking to Cram & Sybex before,see how i can do in this coming week and try cover all the modules and do a mock test with my training centre..

Deesiel

I'm a newbie too, and I recently earned my MCSA.

I am currently enrolled in a AAS degree program at a local college that uses official Microsoft courses as a part of the curriculum. 290, 291, 293, 294, 298, 350, Exchange 2007, SBS2003, and a 'non-official' intro to Vista (or XP, depending on if the course is taken online or on campus) are all a part of the program, as well as some CompTIA and Cisco related courses. The program is designed to set a person up for MCSE (as you can probably tell).

The first Microsoft exam I took was 291. I did this at the end of my class on it. I made sure to study above and beyond what my instructor taught in class. I passed on my first attempt. I don't remember my exact score, but it was above 800 for sure... around 850 iirc. A few weeks later I took the 290. I had taken the 290 class probably ~3 months prior. I didn't study as hard during the class, and I only did a brief refresher before the exam. I passed on the first attempt, but barely. My score was around 750 (I spent most of my time studying networking, then disk management kicked my butt!). I also took the Network+ exam at the end of my Network+ class, and scored 880 iirc. (Again, studied above and beyond the classroom material). During my extra studies, I took as many practice exams as I could find. I also used Sybex books as an additional reference.

If you can, take the exams as you finish the related course in your program. It seemed to help me. Also, continue taking the extra time to study even more than you're called to do in class.

gbadman

Good luck Jap. I'm sure you'll get there. I'll be following your story with interest. Once you get over the hump of that first test, you'll feel a huge psychological weight lifted.
Have you considered whether microsoft admin is truly the field that interests you most though? You mentioned going for cisco certs after the mcse. However if you were to discover that network administration (cisco) is actually more your thing than systems admin (microsoft), then mcse is a bit of a long path to travel. Besides the fact that it could take you up to two years to get through, that knowledge would quickly disappear if not promptly followed with a job as a systems admin (much of it may have ebbed away even before you finish the last exam).
As knwminus has said, ccna + mcsa might be a better (and more rounded) option for someone starting out. That's the path I'm following.

I took my mcsa elective today (Exchange 2003) and got a sound beating. Fair play to the exam. I'm gonna gun it down in three weeks time.
I started the mcsa journey with no love for systems admin. And I still don't find it any more attractive. I'll just have to learn to love it in the next three weeks (it's always tough if you don't at least temporarily convince youself that you do). I'll turn the lights off... lol

hex_omega

Devilsbane wrote: »

Why not? Would you hire someone with an A+ and no experience for a help desk job? I would think a person holding an MCSE is going to be more knowledgeable than a person with an A+. He might not have all of the customer service things down, but those are easily picked up.

Great post. I'm so sick of the "it's useless if you have so-and-so cert with no experience" argument. People hire A+ only candidates with no experience all the time. Why not MCSA/MCSE?

phoeneous

hex_omega wrote: »

Great post. I'm so sick of the "it's useless if you have so-and-so cert with no experience" argument. People hire A+ only candidates with no experience all the time. Why not MCSA/MCSE?

Because an mcsa/e is more likely to jump ship if a better opportunity comes along. If I had my mcse and no experience, Id do a helpdesk job for about 6 months before looking for something at the sysadmin level.

gbadman

hex_omega wrote: »

Great post. I'm so sick of the "it's useless if you have so-and-so cert with no experience" argument. People hire A+ only candidates with no experience all the time. Why not MCSA/MCSE?

Hmm. Yeah. Usually when people make that argument they have a small valid point. However in making it they tend to go over the top and throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's probably in some cases out of a feeling that people taking post-COMPTIA certs without experience are "jumping the queue". It's a natural human feeling, but not entirely rational. Each person's journey will be different.
If someone presents themself for a job they don't have the practical competence for, then the fallout will be on them. It's not a smart move, and anyone with moderate intelligence would know that.

Having said that I would say that I find it difficult to imagine how anyone would want to do an mcse without experience. It's hell. Even if, unlike me, you happen to love MS, the range of tasks you need to keep doing to actually aqcuire and maintain that practical competence is mind-numbing. And some of it is difficult to do in a home lab environment. MCSA's bad enough.

It's different with networking because one concept builds on the next. You can't be a ccnp and have forgotten what you did at ccna level. It's that basic difference at the end of the day. With networking you're mastering technologies and concepts, and with systems admin you're mastering products (tedious, proprietary and very changeable). Now I know this distinction is oversimplistic, but it's how I like to see it during moments of self-indulgence.

JapFreak786

thanks for the posts guys

well i was looking into the MS stuff yesterday on their site,and used their career planner or whatever it's called,and the MCITP:EA is what seems to interest me,and yes thinking about it now,the MCSE onto CCNA does seem a bit of a longer route to take,from what i've seen yesterday,taking the required exams to become an MCITP:EA after gaining the MCSA,and then becoming CCNA certified would be a good route to take

another day wasted today ,had my car MOT'd and then had some other stuff done to it,went to a garage my dad told me to go to,what should have taken an hour took nearly 4!! i could have done it quicker myself but thought i'll get a garage to do as they'll be quicker than me,guess not!! (ps i'm very handy with car mechanics,recently took off my manifolds and turbos on my skyline to replace a gasket)

phoeneous

JapFreak786 wrote: »

another day wasted today ,had my car MOT'd and then had some other stuff done to it,went to a garage my dad told me to go to,what should have taken an hour took nearly 4!! i could have done it quicker myself but thought i'll get a garage to do as they'll be quicker than me,guess not!! (ps i'm very handy with car mechanics,recently took off my manifolds and turbos on my skyline to replace a gasket)

This sounds like something from a diary.

Kirk_TWC

I want to start off by telling you good luck!

I'm on a similar path as you, I just graduated in May 10 with a B.S. In Information Technology and now I'm going to a IT center to get some cert's.

I was able to land a Lvl II Tech support role with a great company but I want more.

I'm enrolling in a program that should prepare me for the A+, Net+, MCP, and MCSA in 7 months. It's pricey, $8600 but thats where the employer comes in!

I hope this is all possible for you, it'll make me feel alot better about my situation. I'm starting up in July

SrSysAdmin

No offense, but $8600 for your A+, N+, and MCSA seems borderline crazy to me...actually, it's not even borderline, that is just flat out nuts. I realize it is employer financed, but if I was going to charged my employer nearly $10,000 I would have them invest it in something more worthwhile.

gbadman

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

No offense, but $8600 for your A+, N+, and MCSA seems borderline crazy to me...actually, it's not even borderline, that is just flat out nuts. I realize it is employer financed, but if I was going to charged my employer nearly $10,000 I would have them invest it in something more worthwhile.

Agreed. However it's probably not likely that the company would be willing to spend the money on something else of the employee's choosing, if that something is not exactly in line with what they're interested in sponsoring.
So, you gotta take it if it's offered. Sure beats paying for it yourself.

JapFreak786

yeah if your not paying for it,then nothing to complain much about...

well i managed to spend a good few hours today,went through an entire chapter in the Cram book,making notes etc and making sure I understood what i did,would have started on another but got a pounding headache so left it,quite happy with the progress i've made today compared to other days