CCNA and what it means to you?

Bl8ckr0uter

I am starting to wonder whether or not the CCNP is the new entry level cert for Net Engineers which got me to thinking, how many CCNA holders here actually want/do work in Network Engineering VS how many people use the CCNA as a plus on their resume.

This thread isn't to bash the CCNA but rather it is to see who is using the cert for what.

GeeGeez0rz

I dont have the CCNA yet, but will be doing studying it very shortly. I'd be using the certification as validation of my skills, prove that I have a base line knowledge of cisco equipment and technologies.

Turgon

knwminus wrote: »

I am starting to wonder whether or not the CCNP is the new entry level cert for Net Engineers which got me to thinking, how many CCNA holders here actually want/do work in Network Engineering VS how many people use the CCNA as a plus on their resume.

This thread isn't to bash the CCNA but rather it is to see who is using the cert for what?

That's an interesting question.

There really isn't an entry level certification for network engineers. In fact by definition a Network Engineer is timeserved not entry level. In my opinion you become a network engineer in the field by acquiring enough live engineering experience to justify the moniker. Prior to that you are an apprentice network professional regardless of the certifications you hold.

The CCNA or CC*P alone isn't enough but they are very useful to help you accelerate your passing through incubation from Network Analyst/Trainee to the status of Network Engineer.

In terms of hiring criteria I would expect CCNA to be a prerequisite and possibly CCNP but the definitive requirement really is field experience.

A few years ago when everything was new and organisations were dashing from bespoke protocols to TCP/IP and moving away from Token Ring and Hubs to switches and away from 3COM to Cisco there was a terrible shortage of inhouse skills to get the job done properly so companies relied on a lot of external help. At this time a CCNA was a ticket to a job as Cisco was still a relatively new experience for both companies moving towards it and the verticals providing the Cisco solutions. You could well find yourself as a Network Engineer with a CCNA and little or no experience back then as there were just not enough timeserved people around to cope with the demand.

Today with the technologies well bedded in I think lots of hiring positions will certainly expect CCNA and possibly CC*P but the primary consideration will be your portfolio of work in the field.

DevilWAH

Deffently as a first step to network engineer.

There is a bit of if its on my CV then at least it shows what generaly level I know.

I do like to think it may help when people are reading my CV that they will say

"oh this one has a CCNA/CCNP so I put that one on the pile to read and see how the rest of the CV stands out. rather than stright in the bin."

But my main reson for getting the CISCO certs is to work towards a senier Network engineer over the next 2 or 3 years.

(I promise not to talk any more cause apparently I suck at it. )

Bl8ckr0uter

I am actually surprised by the outcome of the vote so far and I am wondering if I should have put this in the off topic threads to get a more accurate sample size. As many people pass the CCNA on these boards I was wondering if every one of them expect to go into Network Engineering.

Turgon wrote: »

That's an interesting question.

There really isn't an entry level certification for network engineers. In fact by definition a Network Engineer is timeserved not entry level.

I agree with you. I mean more on the lines entry level in terms of networking engineering and not entry level overall. It is just incredible the difference in experience requirements for network admins and network engineering roles. It blows me away.

[Deleted User]

I'm actually getting MS certs as a filler to supplement my resume and try to help me get a foot in the door in a Jr. Net Eng or Jr. Sys Admin role. Cisco is definitely my passion and I feel like this is where I want to go with my career.

chmorin

Lets face it, if the certification did help us get somewhere why would we even want to take the test? We would just learn the material if we enjoyed it, or go right to CCIE if that was our mindset.

The CCNA helps you take a step to the job you want by taking place on your resume. Its both.

briangl

Well, I thought it was going to be the first step to becoming a network engineer. I’ve had my CCNA since 2008 and still haven’t been able to get a job even doing help desk. I really thought going through the Cisco Net Academy and getting my CCNA would help “open doors” for me. I haven’t given up, yet. I am going to finish my MCSA and probably stop doing certs until I get into the field. I had visions of getting into the field then doing CCNP and then CCIE. At this point I’m considering cutting my losses and finding another field before it is too late. I'm not getting any younger. I might give it another year of job searching after getting my MCSA before moving on.

bermovick

briangl wrote: »

Well, I thought it was going to be the first step to becoming a network engineer. I’ve had my CCNA since 2008 and still haven’t been able to get a job even doing help desk. I really thought going through the Cisco Net Academy and getting my CCNA would help “open doors” for me. I haven’t given up, yet. I am going to finish my MCSA and probably stop doing certs until I get into the field. I had visions of getting into the field then doing CCNP and then CCIE. At this point I’m considering cutting my losses and finding another field before it is too late. I'm not getting any younger. I might give it another year of job searching after getting my MCSA before moving on.

I'm in the same boat, except I don't even have the cert yet. I'd hoped getting certed would get me entry-level in a job that wasn't something dead-end like ... pretty much everything I've had until now. I'm pretty bummed by the information I've been getting here that the certs don't really help any/much towards that.

I hear ya about the 'not getting any younger' part too. Yesterday's miserable failure on the practice exam made me really question if I'm getting too old to 'start over', although the alternative is more of the same old

Paul Boz

When I got most of my Cisco certs I was very intent on continuing ISP engineering. Unfortunately my career has gone in a different direction (security) so I hardly ever apply the actual networking knowledge I have. The general information I know from my pursuits helps me all the time but I can't tell you the last time I actually engineered something.

Reibe

Originally I had planned to jump into networking after my CCNA, but with no experience I ended up with helpdesk support so my CCNA was just a filler there but I'm still focused on my network studies as opposed to helpdesk or other focus.

Luckily my helpdesk job is very broad in what I cover, so I do periodically get a chance to deal with a switch or more often VoIP phones.

Turgon

knwminus wrote: »

I am actually surprised by the outcome of the vote so far and I am wondering if I should have put this in the off topic threads to get a more accurate sample size. As many people pass the CCNA on these boards I was wondering if every one of them expect to go into Network Engineering.




I agree with you. I mean more on the lines entry level in terms of networking engineering and not entry level overall. It is just incredible the difference in experience requirements for network admins and network engineering roles. It blows me away.

I know what you mean.

One of the problems for people wanting in is getting in. The issue isn't a glut of people who want to be Network Engineers creating an over supply of skilled people because often they dont have the skills to begin with. That's the problem. I put that down to the way roles have been carved up and standardised the last few years and the removal of people from the infrastructure they support. There is less hands on, more automation, more change control and actually not that much mobility up and down the vertical chain for network professionals. A lot of people stay as they are sitting pretty with the Network Engineer job accumulating more experience, becoming more savvy with how things hang together locally and generally making it very hard for anyone to justify taking on another pair of hands.

Another factor is the outsourcing model which often takes operations responsibilities away from Local IT personnel denying them essential exposure to the technology and its challenges and problems (which is the best experience). It may make great business sense, sometimes it does, sometimes it just creates the right pie chart, but it screws careers for brick and mortar wannabees. In my previous contract the entire complicated Exchange estate is being moved into a cloud. C-Level decision. Too bad for any Exchange hopefulls there methinks unless they get a piece of the migration action. After that *poof* it's gone.

So it can be quite hard for people to get the experience they need to become a network engineer. There are just not enough roles going for anyone who doesn't have *that* level of experience.

For an entry level networking role you will certainly want CCNA.

For Network Engineer CCNA at least but it should really be gilt edging your experience. A blizzard of certs becomes less useful if you are gun shy on significant field time for a role at NE level. It's a very responsible position with a lot counting on you and you have to have the right answers. Increasingly this means you either need to be working for a massive company or a cloud/service provider. I hesitate to include resellers as a lot of those dont do much engineering at all. They evaluate, offer solutions and sell boxes and many (quite rightly) run far far away from implementing/engineering a solution much less supporting it.

The deal breaker is your operational experience with platforms which ideally should be timeserved and wide ranging, configuring devices, handling BAU network maintenance tasks and responding to platform emergencies. Your project, design and management responsibilities in a network support context are important too and for larger companies your experience with change control and approval processes. Exposure to things not normally equated with networks by the uninitiated helps too i.e proxies, firewalls, IPS, reverse proxies, SSL accellerators, loadbalancers et al. Throw in VPNs and hosting experience and you are all set mostly. Interestingly somethings that often dont come up on the forum can be trump cards..

Multivendor experience - Nortel, Juniper, Bluecoat, Foundry, Netscreen and some Voice/PBX handle. Wireless controllers too. MPLS and BGP really helps. At least a couple of firewall flavours i.e Checkpoint NGX, ASA 5000 series.

Experience of realtime transaction environments, Oracle - Solaris (think banks), multicasting, latency work, thin client. Also migration work. A network is an organic thing and for Network Engineers companies are increasingly looking for engineers with design experience as opposed to steady state wrench turners. This is essentially because services are a moving target and may need to be shipped out somewhere cheaper. It can be a lot of work doing that properly without breaking legacy services.

In terms of career, Migration/Project experience is very valuable indeed. Anyone in support should try and get some.

networker050184

Turgon wrote: »

That's an interesting question.

There really isn't an entry level certification for network engineers. In fact by definition a Network Engineer is timeserved not entry level. In my opinion you become a network engineer in the field by acquiring enough live engineering experience to justify the moniker. Prior to that you are an apprentice network professional regardless of the certifications you hold.

I couldn't have said it better myself. A certification is there to validate your current knowledge and experience IMO. It isn't to try and get you into a position to gain that knowledge and experience. Some people say that is the "chicken and egg" scenario, but that is only if you are going to try and get a job you don't have the experience for and are trying to use a certification in its place.

loxleynew

It's my understanding that CCNA would help you get a system admins or network admin position. From there HOPEFULLY you get in the right job where you can work with more equipment and get your CCNP or move onto juniper or whatever and then move onto a net engineer role a few years later after more experience with multiple platforms.

I'm trying to get my CCNA to move into a larger company where I can get more hands on experience. Honestly there is only so much a lab can teach you. Especially a small 2-5 computer lab you setup whereas a large company that touches hundreds of computers can teach you. Luckily for me even though I don't work with a huge company like that right now my title is network administrator here and I can touch anything I want while I still learn so I can eventually move on. So it looks good on my resume I guess. It's a means to an end.

Personally I prefer hands on experience than reading a book and lab - ing it. Although I know it requires some lab time to get confident in your speech in the interview to land that job. It's a disgusting cycle lol.

bermovick

networker050184 wrote: »

Some people say that is the "chicken and egg" scenario, but that is only if you are going to try and get a job you don't have the experience for and are trying to use a certification in its place.

But what other alternatives are there? If you need experience (which a certificate can't replace, and I'm in agreement), then how do you get the experience without already having the experience needed (to get hired to GET the experience)?

Turgon

bermovick wrote: »

But what other alternatives are there? If you need experience (which a certificate can't replace, and I'm in agreement), then how do you get the experience without already having the experience needed (to get hired to GET the experience)?

Im sure networker will respond. A lot of people fall into the sort of role that in *time* will justify the designation of Network Engineer. A network analyst role offers opportunity to shadow, assist and learn from experienced Network Engineers. The important thing is certifications at that level are in addition to extensive field experience. For the entry level jobs the perceived value of CCNA is *sometimes* inversely proportional to your experience depending on the generosity of the potential employer. So there is a way in for those sorts of roles. For the good Network Engineer jobs you gotta have experience in spades with the certs a nice round up of capabilities.

networker050184

Like Turgon said, you work your way up. Once you become an excellent analyst (or what ever the next level down is) you get a chance at the next higher level. Its just like anything in life, you don't just walk in at the top.

JapFreak786

I want to work as a network engineer in IT,and when able to after i've done my MCSA,I want to do the CCNA,CCNP and the CCSP and gain those qualfications.

I want the cert's because I want to work in that field,I love doing things like networking and wiring,but I think i'll have to do the N+ to begin with,just so I can build up my qualifications and experience

Bl8ckr0uter

Cool responses guys. Thanks for the great input.

Selfmade

knwminus wrote: »

Cool responses guys. Thanks for the great input.

Once I take the exam, it'll mean I'm as cool as knwminus!!!

HardDisk

Why does a writer write...?

My real answer is that I want to be ready for the next big thing.

Can someone tell me what the next big thing is going to be?

What about Cisco's "Human Network Effect". bla-bla see attached link.

The Human Network - Cisco Systems

I can hardly watch TV without seeing some slick Cisco advertisement . What's up with that?

xenodamus

I look at the CCNA as validating my network knowledge. I do want to work toward a network engineering position in the long run, and I guess the CCNA is also the first step toward that. I feel like having my CCNA will give employers the confidence to allow me to touch equipment that I wouldn't be able to otherwise....even if it's just a switch here and there.

chmorin

Selfmade wrote: »

Once I take the exam, it'll mean I'm as cool as knwminus!!!

Don't shoot so low...


HAHA just kidding

chrisone

A lot of experienced engineers or those with multiple professional level certs will down play the CCNP as I have come to see. The fact is the CCNP is a very worthy and hard professional level cert regardless of the new updates stripping certain topics.

Two facts remain, 1. You wont learn whats in the CCNP track from the CCSP, CCVP, CCIP, CCNP wireless. 2. It is still advised you learn and master what is in the CCNP to better prepare you for the other professional level certs.

End of story...

thenjduke

I am getting mine because I need to have the certifications. I been a network administrator for a few years now. I have been working in the field for the last 15 years. I want to move up in the company so after this on my way to CCNP and hopefully CCIE someday. We deal with a lot of video over ip and a cisco partner.

Bl8ckr0uter

HardDisk wrote: »

Why does a writer write...?

I actually went to a magnet middle/high school and my focus was on Creative Writing. That was one of the questions we had to answer. The reason why the writer writes isn't as important as what the writer writes. Put into this context, the reason why you do the CCNA isn't as important as obtaining it (and the knowledge the should come with it).

chrisone wrote: »

A lot of experienced engineers or those with multiple professional level certs will down play the CCNP as I have come to see. The fact is the CCNP is a very worthy and hard professional level cert regardless of the new updates stripping certain topics.

Two facts remain, 1. You wont learn whats in the CCNP track from the CCSP, CCVP, CCIP, CCNP wireless. 2. It is still advised you learn and master what is in the CCNP to better prepare you for the other professional level certs.

End of story...

I am not sure what you mean...

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you said but how does it apply to the CCNA? Typeo maybe? Did someone hate on you personally or something because I have worked with a few net engineers and they have always looked up at the NP (and NA for that matter).

ColbyG

For me the CCNA was a stepping stone in the journey to becoming a network engineer. Without the CCNA I wouldn't have gotten my first (or second) networking gigs. Without the CCNP I probably wouldn't have gotten my current position, or if I had, it would have been a good deal less money, I think.

It seems like on here and other forums, the CCNA (cert and knowledge) is something people in small to medium shops get to be more well rounded. In other words, they get it to complement their MCSE or RHCx or whatever. I think I may have started out like that as well, but once I really got into networking I never wanted to touch servers again.

johnwest43

What it means to me? It means that I now have the confidence to setup a small office or branch office with an INTERNET connection with nothing more then a blank startup config and some info from the tel-co. Also I feel confident in trouble shooting layer 1 2 and 3 issues as well as setting up vlans. Mostly the troubleshooting is what i gained the most confidence in, while studying i was able to put some info from the icnd1 and 2 books to use in a live network environment concerning INTERNET connectivity and layer 2 issues regarding broadcasts.

So to sum it up it means allot. I am a big believer in knowing not just memorizing. If you truly earn the CCNA and didn't **** just to become paper certified you are a giant step ahead of most in the field that don't study this stuff. Even if you don't work with cisco equipment the troubleshooting skills you learn put you ahead of the game.

just my 2 cents.