Anyone work for themselves? I was presented with an opportunity and...

I took my 9 month old to the pediatrician today, and he asked me out of the blue if I was working. I'm not, as I've been a stay at home dad for the past 5 years, but I must have mentioned my previous work in I.T., because he said that he was looking for a guy who could be on call 24/7, to make sure the network is running, Internet, and VPN. Its two small pediatricians offices, and the work would be as needed. He said that he could pay me hourly, or monthly, and it could turn out better, as he also mentioned that he could refer me to some people if things work out. He asked me what it would cost for him to hire me to do this. Again, it wouldn't be full time, more of as needed basis, but hell, it beats working in an office 8-5, and it could lead to him referring to his doctor buds for more work.

My question is, what do I ask for? Monthly, hourly, and how much?

I know that I don't have the specifics of their networks, but I'm sure its Windows dominated, and the primary things would be VPN, and making sure the LANs stay up. I'd like to get a dollar range first to make sure its worth it, not that I don't, and to get a better idea if I should charge a monthly retainer, or charge by the hour. Also, anyone who does something like this, give me the pros and cons. For me, the pros would be working close to home, the flexibility, and the freedom. Cons, its not full time, but could lead to a nice little business if he starts referring to me to his doctor buds.

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erpadmin

howiehandles wrote: »

I took my 9 month old to the pediatrician today, and he asked me out of the blue if I was working. I'm not, as I've been a stay at home dad for the past 5 years, but I must have mentioned my previous work in I.T., because he said that he was looking for a guy who could be on call 24/7, to make sure the network is running, Internet, and VPN. Its two small pediatricians offices, and the work would be as needed. He said that he could pay me hourly, or monthly, and it could turn out better, as he also mentioned that he could refer me to some people if things work out. He asked me what it would cost for him to hire me to do this. Again, it wouldn't be full time, more of as needed basis, but hell, it beats working in an office 8-5, and it could lead to him referring to his doctor buds for more work.

My question is, what do I ask for? Monthly, hourly, and how much?

I know that I don't have the specifics of their networks, but I'm sure its Windows dominated, and the primary things would be VPN, and making sure the LANs stay up. I'd like to get a dollar range first to make sure its worth it, not that I don't, and to get a better idea if I should charge a monthly retainer, or charge by the hour. Also, anyone who does something like this, give me the pros and cons. For me, the pros would be working close to home, the flexibility, and the freedom. Cons, its not full time, but could lead to a nice little business if he starts referring to me to his doctor buds.

Here's my advice.

1) Do it and see where it goes. Most of the doctor's $$ comes from insurance. The fact that he wants someone on call as needed means that there's a steady stream of Medicare coming his way (as a taxpayer....you're welcome!

)

2) Form a LLC. It is the easiest way to incorporate and is not expensive to do at all. My state charged me $125 to form one a while back. Had to dissolve it though for other reasons. But there are a gazillion advantages to doing this, but primarily you want to limit your tax liability (disclaimer, I am not a CPA or Tax attorney...go find one or use google) as well as lease your car to the company (you can write it off...

).

3) The beautiful thing about doing #2 is that if you do find a day job, you can keep your side gig really separate.

forkvoid

erpadmin wrote: »

Here's my advice.

2) Form a LLC. It is the easiest way to incorporate and is not expensive to do at all. My state charged me $125 to form one a while back. Had to dissolve it though for other reasons. But there are a gazillion advantages to doing this, but primarily you want to limit your tax liability (disclaimer, I am not a CPA or Tax attorney...go find one or use google) as well as lease your car to the company (you can write it off... ).

3) The beautiful thing about doing #2 is that if you do find a day job, you can keep your side gig really separate.

That's excessive. The only thing gained by an LLC is the veil of protection for liability and a whole lot more headache.

It can be just as effective with a sole proprietorship. Income is simply reported on the 1040, whereas, an LLC has to file several more forms. You aren't saving any money by going LLC, because either way, FICA is getting paid from somewhere.

OP: You'll be liable for your own taxes. I set aside 30% of my business's income for taxes(since it's rolled into my personal income). This isn't nearly as complicated as it sounds. A quick hour with a CPA and you'll be set. As far as whether you should take it... if you're out of work, do it. If you have a day job, well, consulting work isn't steady. Working for yourself is pretty dang rewarding though. I've been doing it on the side for years, and used to do it full-time in another state.

howiehandles

Thanks for the advice!

I already have a "C" Corp with another business I run with my wife, so I'll probably just run it out of that, at least initially. The doc is really cool, and the fact that he said that he might be able to refer me some clients makes it even better. With a ten year old, and nine month old, it would be nice to not put them in daycare. The places are freaking cold/flu breeding grounds. Everytime my kids get sick, inevitably I do.

What do you think I should charge? I know that I really haven't given much of what I'd be supporting, but he did mention "tunneling", which I take to mean as his remote access or VPN, he didn't seem real sure of the lingo. And making sure the Lans are up and running. Seeing how there's only a few machines per office, not including laptops for remote, it shouldn't (knock on wood) be too bad.

jtoast

I have a similar arrangement with a few businesses in my area. It started as a way to generate income between contracts but turned into some fairly decent money when I had to time to do it. Unfortunately I need the benefits that I get working for a major corporation more than I need the freedom that working for myself gave me so I haven't done much for the last couple of years.

As to charges, I would contact several vendors in your area and ask for onsite quotes and go with the average. Below is what I personally charged but your area will probably vary.

Telephone support: $35/incident. If I can't fix it over the phone and have to make an onsite visit, I waive the fee. I started out by answering simple stuff for free but that quickly got out of control. If you don't want calls about something stupid at 3am, charge for phone support.

Onsite during normal working hours, basic stuff: $60/hour + parts. If they are close (say within a few miles of my office) I don't charge for travel. If they arent, I bill $25/hour each way for travel time. Billing starts the moment I start my car and stops when I turn it off.

Onsite during normal working hours for networking or other more complex issues: $80/hr + parts (same travel policy)

After hours and weekends I charge an extra $50/hr on top of my normal fees and I don't guarantee a response time.

earweed

jtoast wrote: »

I have a similar arrangement with a few businesses in my area. It started as a way to generate income between contracts but turned into some fairly decent money when I had to time to do it. Unfortunately I need the benefits that I get working for a major corporation more than I need the freedom that working for myself gave me so I haven't done much for the last couple of years.

As to charges, I would contact several vendors in your area and ask for onsite quotes and go with the average. Below is what I personally charged but your area will probably vary.

Telephone support: $35/incident. If I can't fix it over the phone and have to make an onsite visit, I waive the fee. I started out by answering simple stuff for free but that quickly got out of control. If you don't want calls about something stupid at 3am, charge for phone support.

Onsite during normal working hours, basic stuff: $60/hour + parts. If they are close (say within a few miles of my office) I don't charge for travel. If they arent, I bill $25/hour each way for travel time. Billing starts the moment I start my car and stops when I turn it off.

Onsite during normal working hours for networking or other more complex issues: $80/hr + parts (same travel policy)

After hours and weekends I charge an extra $50/hr on top of my normal fees and I don't guarantee a response time.

Sounds like about what I charge. If the problems easily fixable I'll give a discount to the custome ( brings more repeat customers and word of mouth helps)
I charge less for networkig as those problems tend to take more time,
I'm right now designing a small office network for a small real estate office (ten users) who are currently just set up as workstations. First I set up their present environment where they can easier share files and such. Working on costs and such to see how we're gonna set up the office.

NetAdmin2436

That's perfect if you already have a corp. You don't have much to lose, considering you haven't worked in 5 years. It could quite possibly open up new doors as you mentioned.

Typically they say whatever you would like to make per hour as an employee, double it. So if you would be comfortable with $25/hr full time as an employee with full benefits and all that jazz, then charge $50/hr as a contractor. Then try and save around 40 percent for taxes, health insurance, IRA/Savings, ect...

forkvoid wrote: »

That's excessive. The only thing gained by an LLC is the veil of protection for liability and a whole lot more headache.

As a side note, I do not think an LLC would be excessive by any means. He'd be working on servers/computers with medical records. The last thing you want to do is be sued by the doctors/patients because someone hacked into their network or you corrupted a database. With a sole proprietorship they can go after any of his personal things (cars, boats, pretty much anything but his main living place). With an LLC and any of the corps they can only go after his business, not his personal things. That's huge, especially if you have nice things that you've worked 10, 20, 30 years to get. I know a few people that moved from Sole Proprietorship to LLC's. They all say they wished they had done it from the beginning and it's only a few forms a year, not a big deal. My CPA (and a few of my small business owner friends) recommended I move to an LLC and that's exactly what I'm doing this summer.

Devilsbane

Sounds like a great opportunity. Good luck.

earweed

An LLC may help plus get business insurance when you can afford it.

Turgon

NetAdmin2436 wrote: »

That's perfect if you already have a corp. You don't have much to lose, considering you haven't worked in 5 years. It could quite possibly open up new doors as you mentioned.

Typically they say whatever you would like to make per hour as an employee, double it. So if you would be comfortable with $25/hr full time as an employee with full benefits and all that jazz, then charge $50/hr as a contractor. Then try and save around 40 percent for taxes, health insurance, IRA/Savings, ect...

As a side note, I do not think an LLC would be excessive by any means. He'd be working on servers/computers with medical records. The last thing you want to do is be sued by the doctors/patients because someone hacked into their network or you corrupted a database. With a sole proprietorship they can go after any of his personal things (cars, boats, pretty much anything but his main living place). With an LLC and any of the corps they can only go after his business, not his personal things. That's huge, especially if you have nice things that you've worked 10, 20, 30 years to get. I know a few people that moved from Sole Proprietorship to LLC's. They all say they wished they had done it from the beginning and it's only a few forms a year, not a big deal. My CPA (and a few of my small business owner friends) recommended I move to an LLC and that's exactly what I'm doing this summer.

Sounds like some good advice to me. Get some cover for that sort of thing.

Turgon

howiehandles wrote: »

I took my 9 month old to the pediatrician today, and he asked me out of the blue if I was working. I'm not, as I've been a stay at home dad for the past 5 years, but I must have mentioned my previous work in I.T., because he said that he was looking for a guy who could be on call 24/7, to make sure the network is running, Internet, and VPN. Its two small pediatricians offices, and the work would be as needed. He said that he could pay me hourly, or monthly, and it could turn out better, as he also mentioned that he could refer me to some people if things work out. He asked me what it would cost for him to hire me to do this. Again, it wouldn't be full time, more of as needed basis, but hell, it beats working in an office 8-5, and it could lead to him referring to his doctor buds for more work.

My question is, what do I ask for? Monthly, hourly, and how much?

I know that I don't have the specifics of their networks, but I'm sure its Windows dominated, and the primary things would be VPN, and making sure the LANs stay up. I'd like to get a dollar range first to make sure its worth it, not that I don't, and to get a better idea if I should charge a monthly retainer, or charge by the hour. Also, anyone who does something like this, give me the pros and cons. For me, the pros would be working close to home, the flexibility, and the freedom. Cons, its not full time, but could lead to a nice little business if he starts referring to me to his doctor buds.

Sounds like a great opportunity. You have some careful thinking to do now. Firstly as others have mentioned I would get some liability cover taken out so that if there is a screw up or you run into mean people you are not left high and dry. If a server dies or data gets lost people who were very nice can get pretty ugly because they are answerable to someone for that. The LLC option has been mentioned so look into that. I run my own business as a Limited company which helps my liability and for the work I either take out liability insurance or I'm afforded the protection provided by the agency I work through.

Now the work itself. You have one pair of hands and from the sounds of it a dependant at home. You need to protect yourself so you dont go to hell in a handbasket. Supporting end users can become a PITA and a massive drain on your time that just doesn't scale. So I think you need to think carefully about how this can best work for yourself and then sell it to your new potential customers..

Firstly you should offer an SLA that is practical. You can't offer 24/7 fix, but you can offer 24/7 response. Should you receive a call or email about an issue you could agree to respond by email, telephone or personal visit (if necessary) the same day, or if the issue is reported after office hours the next day.

Secondly you want to think about offering a portfolio of services that works best for you because people will hold you to your promise. Working as a consultant is better than working as a support person who is a mobile IT department. So you could for example do a site visit and a site audit. You will have to do that anyway if you are going to work this network and its services. Then deliver a well documented and readable report of your findings with a simple drawing. Its a deliverable and clients like that. Something tangible for their money.

The other thing you can do is offer a maintainance service. These are things that you can comfortably schedule. So you could health check the place periodically and update anti virus etc. Again, deliver that report of your findings so people have something in their hands for the fee.

I would not advise you to take responsibility for backups. Backup a system before you work on it but dont take on responsibility for data backup routines. Leave that to the client!

Another idea is a disaster recovery service. This is a *best endeavours* service. You will not be replacing equipment at your own expense. But if something does crash, then the client can come to you for help to attempt to repair or replace the device. To do this properly you need an audit of what is there and upto date system backups and configurations. You either have the client take care of those backups, or you offer it as a scheduled service for a fee.

Again, this is *best endeavours* you are not guaranteeing a fix, but you are available to help manage the clients problem and propose a solution. To that end you will need to in advance locate local suppliers of the sorts of things that could break. Have a couple of companies you could call and speak to them about what they can do for you. You dont need to tell them who your clients are. You are a consultant with clients and would like to know how quickly they could provide replacements to you for (give them kit list)..

All of the above takes time to work through so again, offer the DR audit as a service and then present to your client your findings and recommendations..i.e if this box went down it could take x amount of days to replace etc etc.

Now one of the ways you could charge is to provide a monthly levy for each device you will cover. Dont make it expensive, again its just a cover so that you will take responsibilty for organising a fix if the worst happens. With a few boxes on cover this can add up. And boxes dont break often so its a nice earner. Just be clear that your client will have to pay for any replacement parts or devices. You can take care of the install..similarly make sure the client is responsible for the data backups and the system backups (unless you take those on for an additional fee of course). Allow the client to take cover off a box if they dont think its worthwhile. Be flexible.

Next scale. You will be the consultant so will offer advice on improvements and the introduction of new solutions for the offices. Document anything new and provide a design. Dont rush into changing the steady state network.

Security.

Security audits need not be rocket science. A chargable service with a report to give the client.

Finally support. You will have to do some but make it easy on yourself. Try and do what you can from home. There are no doubt many people here who can advise you on secure remote desktop options for that. If the site has a number of issues backlogging then arrange one afternoon a week to go in and clean them up in one hit. Anything outstanding rolls into the next visit.

NB

Please make sure the client's media is securely stored. If they have an exchange server and no media its about time they bought some! Dont be relied upon to have media for installs.

In terms of business scale, find at least one reliable buddy you can subcontract work out to either in an emergency or when you are sick. Eventually you may move to a model of 24/7 response with the client paying upfront for 4 - 5 site visits a month which can be scheduled as needed. This would enable you to service multiple clients comfortably.

howiehandles

Turgon wrote: »

Sounds like a great opportunity. You have some careful thinking to do now. Firstly as others have mentioned I would get some liability cover taken out so that if there is a screw up or you run into mean people you are not left high and dry. If a server dies or data gets lost people who were very nice can get pretty ugly because they are answerable to someone for that. The LLC option has been mentioned so look into that. I run my own business as a Limited company which helps my liability and for the work I either take out liability insurance or I'm afforded the protection provided by the agency I work through.

Now the work itself. You have one pair of hands and from the sounds of it a dependant at home. You need to protect yourself so you dont go to hell in a handbasket. Supporting end users can become a PITA and a massive drain on your time that just doesn't scale. So I think you need to think carefully about how this can best work for yourself and then sell it to your new potential customers..

Firstly you should offer an SLA that is practical. You can't offer 24/7 fix, but you can offer 24/7 response. Should you receive a call or email about an issue you could agree to respond by email, telephone or personal visit (if necessary) the same day, or if the issue is reported after office hours the next day.

Secondly you want to think about offering a portfolio of services that works best for you because people will hold you to your promise. Working as a consultant is better than working as a support person who is a mobile IT department. So you could for example do a site visit and a site audit. You will have to do that anyway if you are going to work this network and its services. Then deliver a well documented and readable report of your findings with a simple drawing. Its a deliverable and clients like that. Something tangible for their money.

The other thing you can do is offer a maintainance service. These are things that you can comfortably schedule. So you could health check the place periodically and update anti virus etc. Again, deliver that report of your findings so people have something in their hands for the fee.

I would not advise you to take responsibility for backups. Backup a system before you work on it but dont take on responsibility for data backup routines. Leave that to the client!

Another idea is a disaster recovery service. This is a *best endeavours* service. You will not be replacing equipment at your own expense. But if something does crash, then the client can come to you for help to attempt to repair or replace the device. To do this properly you need an audit of what is there and upto date system backups and configurations. You either have the client take care of those backups, or you offer it as a scheduled service for a fee.

Again, this is *best endeavours* you are not guaranteeing a fix, but you are available to help manage the clients problem and propose a solution. To that end you will need to in advance locate local suppliers of the sorts of things that could break. Have a couple of companies you could call and speak to them about what they can do for you. You dont need to tell them who your clients are. You are a consultant with clients and would like to know how quickly they could provide replacements to you for (give them kit list)..

All of the above takes time to work through so again, offer the DR audit as a service and then present to your client your findings and recommendations..i.e if this box went down it could take x amount of days to replace etc etc.

Now one of the ways you could charge is to provide a monthly levy for each device you will cover. Dont make it expensive, again its just a cover so that you will take responsibilty for organising a fix if the worst happens. With a few boxes on cover this can add up. And boxes dont break often so its a nice earner. Just be clear that your client will have to pay for any replacement parts or devices. You can take care of the install..similarly make sure the client is responsible for the data backups and the system backups (unless you take those on for an additional fee of course). Allow the client to take cover off a box if they dont think its worthwhile. Be flexible.

Next scale. You will be the consultant so will offer advice on improvements and the introduction of new solutions for the offices. Document anything new and provide a design. Dont rush into changing the steady state network.

Security.

Security audits need not be rocket science. A chargable service with a report to give the client.

Finally support. You will have to do some but make it easy on yourself. Try and do what you can from home. There are no doubt many people here who can advise you on secure remote desktop options for that. If the site has a number of issues backlogging then arrange one afternoon a week to go in and clean them up in one hit. Anything outstanding rolls into the next visit.

NB

Please make sure the client's media is securely stored. If they have an exchange server and no media its about time they bought some! Dont be relied upon to have media for installs.

In terms of business scale, find at least one reliable buddy you can subcontract work out to either in an emergency or when you are sick. Eventually you may move to a model of 24/7 response with the client paying upfront for 4 - 5 site visits a month which can be scheduled as needed. This would enable you to service multiple clients comfortably.

Holy crap, thanks for the detailed reply. It's rather scary in some ways, but I see the potential for what it is, and what it can become. Especially with my current lifestyle.