How does this happen? (Venting, sorry)

JBrown

Iristheangel wrote: »

Agreed. I'm sitting there next to the guy watching him work and here's the average steps he goes through to create an AD account:

/snip snip

I've tried to go through it with him and tell him he's NOT allowed to copy and paste, he must print out the ticket and type from what he sees on paper in front of him, he needs to follow the SOPs, etc but this guy just WON'T listen or change. EXTREMELY frustrating that his way takes one hour to do when it takes the rest of us about 10 minutes to create the AD account and add all appropriate memberships

It sounds like he does not want to make a mistake. I am not sure what kind of place you work for but, if we apply your logic here then you should be fired as well for spending 10 minutes to create 1 freaking account.
People from networking field(routers& switches& firewalls) have a tendency to double and triple check their own work, or g-d forbid some kid will be without an internet access to his favorite **** site for the rest of the day.
So have some patience, give him a break, it will resolve by itself.

Better yet, implement AD User management tools, such as http://www.tools4ever.com/products/user-management-resource-administrator/ or http://www.quest.com/active-directory/automation-and-provisioning.aspx instead of clicking through tabs.

Iristheangel

*UPDATE* He was let go today. We're terminating his access right now.
Hate to see anyone lose a job, but he was dragging the entire team down. Maybe now we can hire someone who can keep on the same level as the rest of us.

Devilsbane

Iristheangel wrote: »

*UPDATE* He was let go today. We're terminating his access right now.
Hate to see anyone lose a job, but he was dragging the entire team down. Maybe now we can hire someone who can keep on the same level as the rest of us.

Sad, but it had to be done. Don't boast having skills that you don't, might get the job, but then this happens.

Iristheangel

JBrown wrote: »

It sounds like he does not want to make a mistake. I am not sure what kind of place you work for but, if we apply your logic here then you should be fired as well for spending 10 minutes to create 1 freaking account.
People from networking field(routers& switches& firewalls) have a tendency to double and triple check their own work, or g-d forbid some kid will be without an internet access to his favorite **** site for the rest of the day.
So have some patience, give him a break, it will resolve by itself.

Better yet, implement AD User management tools, such as User Mangement Resource Administrator - User Management software, provisioning, delegation, SSO, workflow, helpdesk | Identity and Access Management Solution | RBAC | Self Service | Workflow or Automation and Provisioning instead of clicking through tabs.

I should mentioned that his quality was HORRIBLE. I had to redo all his tickets because he would half a** them or complete forget huge chunks of the access.

Iristheangel

Oh, also, if anyone who is AD and access provisioning savy in Southern California is looking for a job, let me know. It's about 48K a year and it's a start in the IT field.

Clockworks

Iristheangel wrote: »

Oh, also, if anyone who is AD and access provisioning savy in Southern California is looking for a job, let me know. It's about 48K a year and it's a start in the IT field.

Sooooo close! I'm trying to move to Seattle, Oregon, or Northern Cali. I'm about to take the AD exam on Wednesday and need a place to start my IT career. How much experience were you looking for?

Iristheangel

Clockworks wrote: »

Sooooo close! I'm trying to move to Seattle, Oregon, or Northern Cali. I'm about to take the AD exam on Wednesday and need a place to start my IT career. How much experience were you looking for?

I'm not a manager, but I was hired with a year and half of Help Desk experience. I think as long as you're quick, can create an Exchange mailbox, AD account, and can understand the basics of network access as well as learning quickly, then you'll be fine.

loxleynew

Iristheangel wrote: »

Oh, also, if anyone who is AD and access provisioning savy in Southern California is looking for a job, let me know. It's about 48K a year and it's a start in the IT field.

Danng I get paid 36k as a sys admin. Is cost of living really that much more expensive there compared to CO?

Iristheangel

loxleynew wrote: »

Danng I get paid 36k as a sys admin. Is cost of living really that much more expensive there compared to CO?

I don't really think so. I pay $500 for rent (rent a house with other people), $250 for car payment, $60 for insurance, credit cards are paid off, and the rest goes to savings.

thenjduke

Iristheangel wrote: »

I don't really think so. I pay $500 for rent (rent a house with other people), $250 for car payment, $60 for insurance, credit cards are paid off, and the rest goes to savings.

Dam that is cheap. I pay 1250.00 a month for rent. 521 for car payments and 120 for car insurance and other crap for family.

Devilsbane

thenjduke wrote: »

and other crap for family.

oh the other crap for family.

Iristheangel

thenjduke wrote: »

Dam that is cheap. I pay 1250.00 a month for rent. 521 for car payments and 120 for car insurance and other crap for family.

I don't have children and only a girlfriend at the moment. I moved into a cheap room for rent to save money and pay off my car early. Once I have it paid off, I'll probably move into a one bedroom apartment and even then, it's only about 850-900 a month.

phantasm

Iristheangel wrote: »

I don't have children and only a girlfriend at the moment. I moved into a cheap room for rent to save money and pay off my car early. Once I have it paid off, I'll probably move into a one bedroom apartment and even then, it's only about 850-900 a month.

Daycare for my son adds another $600 onto the monthly bills which does not include diapers or wipes or any other needs. Kids are expensive, I love him to death though.

Plantwiz

Iristheangel wrote: »

....Creating a new AD user is not hard, but when you have an SOP that goes through it step by step and you still fail after five weeks of it? I just think at that point, it's time to part ways.

I agree.

Unfortunately, too many folks (and too many lawyers) find 'parting ways' prime reason to end up in court.

Sure, there is the "employement at will" and the "90 day rule" but that seems to get overlooked and the team is left with dead weight.

Unless you the guy/gal with the finger on the trigger...you may be stuck with the situation (of course your free to find yourself a new home...but that never seems fair IMO).

Plantwiz

subl1m1nal wrote: »

.... I didn't realize "studying" can go on a resume. .....

Just received one like this LAST WEEK!!!

I didn't think that counted either

Michael.J.Palmer

Plantwiz wrote: »

I agree.

Unfortunately, too many folks (and too many lawyers) find 'parting ways' prime reason to end up in court.

Sure, there is the "employement at will" and the "90 day rule" but that seems to get overlooked and the team is left with dead weight.

Unless you the guy/gal with the finger on the trigger...you may be stuck with the situation (of course your free to find yourself a new home...but that never seems fair IMO).

Depends on the state that they live on on this one as well. North Carolina law states that an employer or employee both have the right to terminate the employment without probable cause and at anytime without the need for a notice. So if it was a performance issue then he'd probably already be unemployed in NC.

In other states with this though... I'm sure there could be some sort of ground to stand on if his resume is misleading of his skills. Most employers have candidates sign forms that confirm that what they have on their resume is truthful, if that is the case and there is probable doubt that he embelished his resume to get a job then they could use that as leverage to not just fire him but avoid court.

thenjduke

Devilsbane wrote: »

oh the other crap for family.

Yeah toys for the kids, my wife's woman needs, just little things.

Devilsbane

Michael.J.Palmer wrote: »

Depends on the state that they live on on this one as well. North Carolina law states that an employer or employee both have the right to terminate the employment without probable cause and at anytime without the need for a notice. So if it was a performance issue then he'd probably already be unemployed in NC.

In other states with this though... I'm sure there could be some sort of ground to stand on if his resume is misleading of his skills. Most employers have candidates sign forms that confirm that what they have on their resume is truthful, if that is the case and there is probable doubt that he embelished his resume to get a job then they could use that as leverage to not just fire him but avoid court.

I'm not sure how lying on a resume goes, but lying on an application is grounds for dismissal at any time since most applications have you sign the bottom agreeing that you have told the truth.

This could start out a court battle though. He might have dumped his MCSE and CCNA, in which case he didn't lie.

Iristheangel

Devilsbane wrote: »

I'm not sure how lying on a resume goes, but lying on an application is grounds for dismissal at any time since most applications have you sign the bottom agreeing that you have told the truth.

This could start out a court battle though. He might have dumped his MCSE and CCNA, in which case he didn't lie.

We're all temp to hire here so it doesn't matter. Nothing to sue over.

Turgon

Iristheangel wrote: »

I work in the access provisioning department where we create and modify network access all day long. AD has a big part in our job (creating users, thin clients, etc) as well as Citrix, Meditech, etc access.

Recently my manager hired on this guy who has 10+ years of IT experience, a CCNA, and supposedly studied for the CCNP and MCSE but just never took the test. According to my manager, they used to work together 5 years ago and this guy was a great employee (I guess he dealt with networking and troubleshooting at that job). Well... I've been training this guy for 5 weeks now and he still can't understand how to use AD, can't navigated around an account creation, can't figure out shortcut keys (we're talking ctrl-c, ctrl-v. The guy literally highlights a word, right clicks, copies, then moves to the other screen, right clicks, pastes, etc at the speed of a crippled snail), doesn't seem to be catching on and learning anything, types less than 20 WPM when he does type, can't figure out how to create accounts in other systems, simple concepts escape him, etc. This guy has been there for 5 weeks now and has been processing 4-6 requests a day while the rest of my department is in the 30-50 a day range.

I'm curious, but how does this happen? Did the guy have skills before and just got rusty after being unemployed for a year and a half? Isn't he supposed to catch on after 5 weeks? People on their first day get more tickets done. I'm just perplexed... I would say this guy BSed on his resume, but according to the boss, he used to have a great work ethic and new how to get things done on his resume. Just frustrated. I have to train this guy and I've been trying but it's not going forward at all. I would think someone with a CCNA and who studied even for just the 70-290 would have no problem doing this job.

Any advice or ideas?

</end rant>

He may just be totally bored with the task. I had jobs before I got into IT that bored the hell out of me and I was slow and made mistakes. Also the age maybe a factor where he is just stuck in his cut and paste ways.

Its clearly frustrating for you to work with this person but in work you have to deal with some difficult situations sometimes. Following the thread I think you have made your feelings known. Try to step outside of it now. If he has been hired on the whim of your boss then it's not worth your while making a song and dance about it if they are friends. Not an ideal situation I know but that's life. Try and turn the situation around a bit if you can by making allowances. If he is close to the boss and he sings your praises it wont hurt you.

If he has been in the biz for a while there is also the possibility that while he sucks at this clerical task he may well know some other things that may be of use to you if you give him a chance.

Who knows.

Iristheangel

Turgon wrote: »

He may just be totally bored with the task. I had jobs before I got into IT that bored the hell out of me and I was slow and made mistakes. Also the age maybe a factor where he is just stuck in his cut and paste ways.

Its clearly frustrating for you to work with this person but in work you have to deal with some difficult situations sometimes. Following the thread I think you have made your feelings known. Try to step outside of it now. If he has been hired on the whim of your boss then it's not worth your while making a song and dance about it if they are friends. Not an ideal situation I know but that's life. Try and turn the situation around a bit if you can by making allowances. If he is close to the boss and he sings your praises it wont hurt you.

If he has been in the biz for a while there is also the possibility that while he sucks at this clerical task he may well know some other things that may be of use to you if you give him a chance.

Who knows.

I don't think it was a boredom thing. He genuinely seemed confused on how to navigate a computer, much less AD, and it really doesn't matter anymore. He's gone now. We gave him 5 good weeks and he showed no improvement during that time. At the end of every day, we had to go through his tickets and fix the mistakes he made. Thankfully it never took too long because he didn't do too much work.

Devilsbane

Iristheangel wrote: »

I don't think it was a boredom thing. He genuinely seemed confused on how to navigate a computer, much less AD, and it really doesn't matter anymore. He's gone now. We gave him 5 good weeks and he showed no improvement during that time. At the end of every day, we had to go through his tickets and fix the mistakes he made. Thankfully it never took too long because he didn't do too much work.

Out of curiosity, how did you handle this? Did you keep working with him and the boss noticed, or did you set him up for faiure? Or did you just go to your boss and say "Look, this guy ain't working out."

I think it is a valuable experience that we can all learn from as I'm sure most of us will find ourselves in a similar situation at some time.

Iristheangel

Devilsbane wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how did you handle this? Did you keep working with him and the boss noticed, or did you set him up for faiure? Or did you just go to your boss and say "Look, this guy ain't working out."

I think it is a valuable experience that we can all learn from as I'm sure most of us will find ourselves in a similar situation at some time.

Well... We had overtime offered a couple weeks ago and he got on the radar because he was working 12 hour days with the rest of us to help bring our queue down. The rest of us had 80-100 tickets done by the end of the day but he only got 4 tickets done EVERY day that week. At first he tried to say it was an error and he did WAY more tickets than that, so the supervisor told him to skype her after every ticket he completed the next day. That next day he only had four tickets and skyped her four times so obviously our reports weren't the issue. They decided to move him next to me and have me train him to help him improve so I spent the last week going through his tickets, trying to explain shortcut keys, trying to show him how to create AD, Citrix, Meditech, PMM, etc access, trying to get him to follow the SOPs, etc and EVERY day he kept repeating the same errors over and over again and wouldn't follow the SOPs at all. He would get snappy with me while I was helping him and the supervisor witnessed it and his daily ticket count wasn't increasing. On thursday, the manager called the supervisor and I into the office and asked how he was doing. We were honest, but nice about it and he said "Alright, let's give him one more day and see how it goes..."


Well, Friday came and went and still no improvement. I didn't think the manager would get rid of him because they were friends, but sure enough, I had an e-mail this morning telling me to terminate his access.

thenjduke

Devilsbane wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how did you handle this? Did you keep working with him and the boss noticed, or did you set him up for faiure? Or did you just go to your boss and say "Look, this guy ain't working out."

I think it is a valuable experience that we can all learn from as I'm sure most of us will find ourselves in a similar situation at some time.

This would be good to know.

NathanielTurner

I guess in IT it takes all kinds. I learned the hard way that personal politics gets in the way all the time. If you have documented the guys work leave it alone and let him hang himself. The relationship with the mamager will trump all whether you like it or not

Devilsbane

NathanielTurner wrote: »

I guess in IT it takes all kinds. I learned the hard way that personal politics gets in the way all the time. If you have documented the guys work leave it alone and let him hang himself. The relationship with the mamager will trump all whether you like it or not

Except for when the Manager's Manager gets involved. Check out the end of the story.

rsutton

Guys like that only make you shine more

Alas, teaching someone how to create an account in AD doesn't really have much to do with knowing AD. It is such a short and simple task, that if someone can't effectively do it, the problem is something else. Make sure you document your training procedures well so it doesn't come back on you.

Turgon

Iristheangel wrote: »

I don't think it was a boredom thing. He genuinely seemed confused on how to navigate a computer, much less AD, and it really doesn't matter anymore. He's gone now. We gave him 5 good weeks and he showed no improvement during that time. At the end of every day, we had to go through his tickets and fix the mistakes he made. Thankfully it never took too long because he didn't do too much work.

Ah well. At least the situation took care of itself then. Perhaps he didnt need the job and was just cruising along. Not a problem for you anymore though!