Now that potential employers have refused to hire unemployed people....

tdeantdean Senior MemberMember Posts: 520
im trying to think of ways to get them to at least consider me. ive been out for a year b/c i got laid off, then was awarded classes via unemp... the classes kept getting delayed, months at a time and took 8 months rather than 2. since i've been off, i have completed the following courses. i am considering adding this to a cover letter.... what do you think?

CCNA, CCNA:Sec, CCNA:Voice, vSphere, Deploying VDI, exchange 2010 with messaging, CWNA, IIS 7.0/7.5 admin, server 2008 AD, configuring network infrastructure, application infrastructure, SSCP, and i've started CISSP.

i just dont want them to think ive been sitting around doing nothing. its brutal out there, i had a "fight" with the hiring mgr at the largest IT recruiting co in the northeast when he said i wouldnt be considered b/c his clients can afford to be "picky" in this economy. that put me over the edge..... anyway, what do you guys think about adding something like that to a cover letter?

Comments

  • Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Senior Member Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    First of all, what that guy said is bullshit. As far as cover letters, I rarely use them but when I do, I just used them to add keywords from the job posting and to introduce myself. I am not sure if a lot of people read them.
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    knwminus wrote: »
    First of all, what that guy said is bullshit. As far as cover letters, I rarely use them but when I do, I just used them to add keywords from the job posting and to introduce myself. I am not sure if a lot of people read them.
    i agree its bs, but unfortunately its true. i've heard it from several others as well... unfortunately, this guy is the top dog at the largest recruiting company in New England. i just wish there was a way to get through to people that i havent been sitting on my ass... i think most unemployed people have dramatically improved their skill sets, which is why its strange for employers to discriminate against us.
  • erpadminerpadmin PMP-Wannabe! Member Posts: 4,165
    tdean wrote: »
    i agree its bs, but unfortunately its true. i've heard it from several others as well... unfortunately, this guy is the top dog at the largest recruiting company in New England. i just wish there was a way to get through to people that i havent been sitting on my ass... i think most unemployed people have dramatically improved their skill sets, which is why its strange for employers to discriminate against us.


    Tdean, all I can tell you is don't be discouraged. I was out of work for about 7-8 months out of my career due to 9/11, so I know what that's like. Just keep trucking along and I promise you employment will come. If I had to, I was willing to leave town and almost came close a couple of times.

    What I would do is stop jockeying staffing companies and use the crap out of the job boards (which I am sure you are doing and, if so, keep doing it). Also, let us critique your resume so we can help with what works and what doesn't. (Just minus the personal info and company names).

    Trust me, you'll be fine, and I say that in the most non-patronizing way possible. It's easy to despair when times are rough...from personal experience I know.
  • ClaymooreClaymoore Nidhoggr, the Net Serpent Member Posts: 1,637
    tdean wrote: »
    ... since i've been off, i have completed the following courses. i am considering adding this to a cover letter.... what do you think?

    CCNA, CCNA:Sec, CCNA:Voice, vSphere, Deploying VDI, exchange 2010 with messaging, CWNA, IIS 7.0/7.5 admin, server 2008 AD, configuring network infrastructure, application infrastructure, SSCP, and i've started CISSP.

    ..... anyway, what do you guys think about adding something like that to a cover letter?

    Ok, I'll be the bad guy here.

    What kind of classes, college or a local training academy?
    How did you 'complete' them?
    What does a class on 'Deploying VDI' or 'Exchange 2010 with messaging' cover, and can you clearly explain the syllabus to a hiring manager?
    Did you pass any of the related certifications?
    More importantly, do you have any real experience with any of the technologies?

    IMO, a cover letter should be used to indroduce yourself and explain why you are a great fit for the position. It should be customized for every application and cover how your skills match up to specific requests in the posting. If you feel that your having attended classes across a broad spectrum of technology makes you the best candidate, then by all means include that in your cover letter. If you are only considering including them as an act of desperation or to get past the resume filters, then you should reconsider.

    One problem I have with your course listing is there is no overall direction. You have Cisco, VMWare, Microsoft, and Security all mixed in there. What do you really want to do in this industry? If you are taking all these classes because that is what is available, I can understand. Training can be very hard to come by, and if you wanted to make the most out of the opportunity I can appreciate your enthusiasm. However, you should be supplementing these courses with self-study that focuses more on your chosen career path.
  • TheMechanicTheMechanic Member Member Posts: 77 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Jeez man you have great qualifications, you should be able to land 18-20/hr with ease
    Needs 100K
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    Claymoore wrote: »
    Ok, I'll be the bad guy here.

    What kind of classes, college or a local training academy?
    How did you 'complete' them?
    What does a class on 'Deploying VDI' or 'Exchange 2010 with messaging' cover, and can you clearly explain the syllabus to a hiring manager?
    Did you pass any of the related certifications?
    More importantly, do you have any real experience with any of the technologies?

    IMO, a cover letter should be used to indroduce yourself and explain why you are a great fit for the position. It should be customized for every application and cover how your skills match up to specific requests in the posting. If you feel that your having attended classes across a broad spectrum of technology makes you the best candidate, then by all means include that in your cover letter. If you are only considering including them as an act of desperation or to get past the resume filters, then you should reconsider.

    One problem I have with your course listing is there is no overall direction. You have Cisco, VMWare, Microsoft, and Security all mixed in there. What do you really want to do in this industry? If you are taking all these classes because that is what is available, I can understand. Training can be very hard to come by, and if you wanted to make the most out of the opportunity I can appreciate your enthusiasm. However, you should be supplementing these courses with self-study that focuses more on your chosen career path.
    the ccna, vsphere and 2 server08 classes were at training facilities. the rest is self study. like i said, the main objective is just to let potential employers i havent just been sitting around drinking on my back porch. as far as the classes... i just figure you catch more fish with a bigger net... i just want a job so im trying to learn everything i can.

    i dont know where some of you guys get these jobs where you are responsible for 4-5 different roles. every place i've been, or applied to, i was the single tech presence, responsible for ad, email, security, firewall, routers/switches, apps, web site, virtualization, purchasing, help desk, phones, wireless, vpn, etc etc....

    i simply dont know how to find a good job.
  • garydrummgarydrumm PMP Member Posts: 5 ■□□□□□□□□□
    One word... VOLUNTEER!

    If you're having difficulty finding full time work, volunteer somewhere. You have all of these skills, why not put them to use?

    Also, what does your LinkedIn profile look like? What kind of presence do you have on the web? Do you Twitter? Do you network at all? Being out of work for a year is a LONG time. Surely you can find some way to contribute while you're waiting for your next job.

    If no one will pay you for your time, give it away to some local charity and then ask for references on you LinkedIn profile. Or do what I did and start consulting. :)
    Gary Drumm
    Current Certifications:
    PMP, ITIL, CIW, A+, P+, N+

    Currently Preparing For:
    Sec+, CCNA, ISO 20000 (Whew!)

    Current Undergraduate Candidate:
    WGU - 2011
    B.S Information Technology: Network Design and Management

    My Latest Project:
    http://www.itiluniversity.com

    Infinigen Technology Solutions
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    http://www.garydrumm.com
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    garydrumm wrote: »
    One word... VOLUNTEER!

    If you're having difficulty finding full time work, volunteer somewhere. You have all of these skills, why not put them to use?

    Also, what does your LinkedIn profile look like? What kind of presence do you have on the web? Do you Twitter? Do you network at all? Being out of work for a year is a LONG time. Surely you can find some way to contribute while you're waiting for your next job.

    If no one will pay you for your time, give it away to some local charity and then ask for references on you LinkedIn profile. Or do what I did and start consulting. :)

    i wouldnt mind volunteering, in fact, if i was really helping people out i'd really enjoy it.... i have no clue where i'd be able to do that though. i need to work on my linkedin profile for sure. i have an article downstairs on that. twitter is a definite no.. lol.

    i dont network at all b/c like i was mentioning earlier, i have always been the only person on site at the places i've worked. i dont know a single person in the field.

    when you say "consulting" do you mean for yourself? if so, howd you get customers?
  • ipconfig.allipconfig.all Senior Member Banned Posts: 428
    Volunteering is a good option.

    If you want to some volunteer gigs to get some experience and to close up the unemployment gap try and do what I did. Grab your phone, go to google or go to a MS or a Cisco partnership website and search for some I.T companies in your area where you would like to work. Email them or phone them and tell them that you are looking to volunteer for free for some work experience.

    That was what I did and it worked I was able to find so many volunteer gigs, it has gave me solid experience and I was able to learn so much and gain new skills.

    I am still doing this sys engineer volunteer gig and I love it, I get around 2 face to face interviews thanks to my volunteer work, sure I didn't get paid, I got the experience, but seriously I need a job that pays now cause I deserve one.
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    Just emailed the IT Director for the town asking if i could do any volunteer work for them..... we'll see. cant fire me if im not getting paid, right!! lol
  • kriscamaro68kriscamaro68 Member Posts: 1,186 ■■■■■■■□□□
    tdean wrote: »
    im trying to think of ways to get them to at least consider me. ive been out for a year b/c i got laid off, then was awarded classes via unemp... the classes kept getting delayed, months at a time and took 8 months rather than 2. since i've been off, i have completed the following courses. i am considering adding this to a cover letter.... what do you think?

    CCNA, CCNA:Sec, CCNA:Voice, vSphere, Deploying VDI, exchange 2010 with messaging, CWNA, IIS 7.0/7.5 admin, server 2008 AD, configuring network infrastructure, application infrastructure, SSCP, and i've started CISSP.

    i just dont want them to think ive been sitting around doing nothing. its brutal out there, i had a "fight" with the hiring mgr at the largest IT recruiting co in the northeast when he said i wouldnt be considered b/c his clients can afford to be "picky" in this economy. that put me over the edge..... anyway, what do you guys think about adding something like that to a cover letter?

    You can either volunteer or setup something saying that you do small business support on craigslist in your area. Make up some business cards and give them to friends and family and have them pass them out to people that they come in contact with and see if you can get something from that.
  • CountryboiCountryboi Member Member Posts: 44 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I had a recuiter pull this mess with me when i was unemployed. she called me asked to submit me for a job then was like no way let me see if they will take someone who has been unemployed as long as you...a day later she called and told me they are going to have to pass cause they are only looking for people that have been unemployed 6 months or less.....i mean if this was a problem why the heck did you even call? I did my best not to shoot the messager right in the face but this practice is just not cool.
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    Countryboi wrote: »
    I had a recuiter pull this mess with me when i was unemployed. she called me asked to submit me for a job then was like no way let me see if they will take someone who has been unemployed as long as you...a day later she called and told me they are going to have to pass cause they are only looking for people that have been unemployed 6 months or less.....i mean if this was a problem why the heck did you even call? I did my best not to shoot the messager right in the face but this practice is just not cool.
    very strange indeed... these people would rather someone that is complacent in their job, pushing the same buttons over and over, year after year, stagnant skillset over someone that has been unemployed, that is fiercely motivated, driven and constantly improving themselves.
  • L0gicB0mb508L0gicB0mb508 Cyber Ninja Member Posts: 538
    tdean wrote: »
    very strange indeed... these people would rather someone that is complacent in their job, pushing the same buttons over and over, year after year, stagnant skillset
    Don't talk about me that way.

    Yes it is crazy...
    I bring nothing useful to the table...
  • TurgonTurgon Senior Member Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Countryboi wrote: »
    I had a recuiter pull this mess with me when i was unemployed. she called me asked to submit me for a job then was like no way let me see if they will take someone who has been unemployed as long as you...a day later she called and told me they are going to have to pass cause they are only looking for people that have been unemployed 6 months or less.....i mean if this was a problem why the heck did you even call? I did my best not to shoot the messager right in the face but this practice is just not cool.

    Well then maybe recruitment consultants should do a better job of finding people work then you wouldn't be kicking your heels for so long. I had a spell last year in between contracts when things were quiet and it didn't make me unemployable at all. As for the employer, that's discrimination but it happens unfortunately, which is why there is legislation to try and stop it. You will get this though. Just keep applying for work until someone gives you a break.
  • vColevCole Senior Member Member Posts: 1,573 ■■■■■■■□□□
    tdean - where in New England are you? I'm in Rhode Island - wouldn't mind helping you find work as I have a lot of contacts in the New England area.
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    tdean - where in New England are you? I'm in Rhode Island - wouldn't mind helping you find work as I have a lot of contacts in the New England area.
    that would be much appreciated!! i am in Plymouth, Ma.
  • chrisonechrisone Senior Member Member Posts: 2,277 ■■■■■■■■■□
    ask for less money and show them your very flexible in your hours and have a huge commitment to studying and advancing your skills. Second your interview must be solid and study the topics in the job description because they will give you questions based off that. If you nailed the interview and say got 70% of the questions right, combined with working for less gives you another 25% chance of nailing the job, thats a 95% chance of getting the job. You can always work your way up to the normal standard pay rate through bonuses and raises. It may take some time but at least your employed and have the opportunity to get raises or bonuses in the future.

    My theory is not the best nor 100% full proof but it landed me my job back in june 09 of last year.
    Certs: CISSP, EnCE, OSCP, CRTP, eCTHPv2, eCPPT, eCIR, LFCS, CEH, SPLK-1002, SC-200, SC-300, AZ-900, AZ-500, VHL:Advanced+
    2023 Cert Goals: SC-100, eCPTX
  • thenjdukethenjduke Senior Member Member Posts: 894 ■■■■□□□□□□
    tdean wrote: »
    the ccna, vsphere and 2 server08 classes were at training facilities. the rest is self study. like i said, the main objective is just to let potential employers i havent just been sitting around drinking on my back porch. as far as the classes... i just figure you catch more fish with a bigger net... i just want a job so im trying to learn everything i can.

    i dont know where some of you guys get these jobs where you are responsible for 4-5 different roles. every place i've been, or applied to, i was the single tech presence, responsible for ad, email, security, firewall, routers/switches, apps, web site, virtualization, purchasing, help desk, phones, wireless, vpn, etc etc....

    i simply dont know how to find a good job.

    Can I ask you is this training and do not have the certifications yet? If so I would knock some of those certs out. One other thing about cover letters is HR rarely looks at them and I know HR here just puts the resume through a program and matches keywords for what they are looking for.
    CCNA, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, MCDST, MCITP Enterprise Administrator, Working towards Networking BS. CCNP is Next.
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    thenjduke wrote: »
    Can I ask you is this training and do not have the certifications yet? If so I would knock some of those certs out. One other thing about cover letters is HR rarely looks at them and I know HR here just puts the resume through a program and matches keywords for what they are looking for.
    that is correct. i just feel i cant back myself into a corner and concentrate on one thing. once that happens, a job will pop up asking for skills i could have been studying. i have the CCNA, Sec+, Net+, one of the Server08 (640) tests passed. the other stuff i could definately do in a job situation, but like i said, i just dont feel comfortable spending all that time studying for one particular test at this point. i certainly will in the future, but i dont think that will help me get a job right now.
  • thenjdukethenjduke Senior Member Member Posts: 894 ■■■■□□□□□□
    tdean wrote: »
    that is correct. i just feel i cant back myself into a corner and concentrate on one thing. once that happens, a job will pop up asking for skills i could have been studying. i have the CCNA, Sec+, Net+, one of the Server08 (640) tests passed. the other stuff i could definately do in a job situation, but like i said, i just dont feel comfortable spending all that time studying for one particular test at this point. i certainly will in the future, but i dont think that will help me get a job right now.

    You actually would be surprised how much working on your CCNA helps with Microsoft Exams just for the simple fact Microsoft does not expose you to the OSI World ord the IP world.
    CCNA, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, MCDST, MCITP Enterprise Administrator, Working towards Networking BS. CCNP is Next.
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    thenjduke wrote: »
    You actually would be surprised how much working on your CCNA helps with Microsoft Exams just for the simple fact Microsoft does not expose you to the OSI World ord the IP world.
    oh i hear ya..... i took the 802 exam and got a 96 last month. i still dont feel comfortable though, b/c i've never held a "Cisco" job... i have no idea what would be expected of me.
  • CherperCherper Legend in my own mind Member Posts: 140 ■■■□□□□□□□
    tdean wrote: »
    that is correct. i just feel i cant back myself into a corner and concentrate on one thing. once that happens, a job will pop up asking for skills i could have been studying. i have the CCNA, Sec+, Net+, one of the Server08 (640) tests passed. the other stuff i could definately do in a job situation, but like i said, i just dont feel comfortable spending all that time studying for one particular test at this point. i certainly will in the future, but i dont think that will help me get a job right now.


    If you don't have the cert, don't start listing them on a cover letter or resume. You may have the knowledge, but if you don't have the paper, don't claim the certification. You can say that you have studied the CCNA:Sec material, but until you have the paper, you have only studied. That is a surefire way to get your application circular filed.
    Studying and Reading:

    Whatever strikes my fancy...
  • tdeantdean Senior Member Member Posts: 520
    Cherper wrote: »
    If you don't have the cert, don't start listing them on a cover letter or resume. You may have the knowledge, but if you don't have the paper, don't claim the certification. You can say that you have studied the CCNA:Sec material, but until you have the paper, you have only studied. That is a surefire way to get your application circular filed.

    i'd never claim anything i havent achieved. in fact, i quite undersell myself. i made it perfectly clear in my cover letter that other than the certs listed, these were "courses completed."
  • it_consultantit_consultant Senior Member Member Posts: 1,903
    In your case you need a cover letter. This will give you time to explain your time outside of the workforce. If you don't do that then your resume will not be considered. If you haven't been sitting on your laurels, you must indicate as such in the cover letter.

    If people "like" you from what you write in your letter, which is generally more personal than the resume, they can overlook your unemployed stint. If I were you, I would include that as a result of your unemployment you are fresh and motivated to work hard for whoever takes you on. Employers like hearing stuff like that. In your case its probably true!

    Its like having a criminal record, most peoples' official stance is that they don't hire those people, but the reality is that your probably working right next to a felon. If they wan't you, they will waive almost any hiring requirement.
  • ipconfig.allipconfig.all Senior Member Banned Posts: 428
    You seem like a well experience person OP, try and volunteering email and contact as much I.T companies in your area and see, it could turn into a paid job.
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