Rhce

Bl8ckr0uter

Hey I have a RHCE related question for you guys. Has anyone here completed the RHCE as a way to get into *nix administration (not just validate experience)?

NightShade03

knwminus wrote: »

Hey I have a RHCE related question for you guys. Has anyone here completed the RHCE as a way to get into *nix administration (not just validate experience)?

Since the RHCE is a hands-on exam I doubt you will find anyone with a Yes answer to that question. Usually people that sit for the RHCE have *nix experience already because at least 2-3 years is required just to obtain the knowledge required to pass the exam.

Are you looking to break into *nix administration?

Bl8ckr0uter

NightShade03 wrote: »

Are you looking to break into *nix administration?

I'm seriously thinking about it. I am looking at finishing the LPIC-1 by the end of the year and the LPIC-2 next year. I was wondering if doing a Sun cert or Red Hat cert would help me towards that objective. I know RHCE is more popular but Sun seems to have a decent program as well. I also know that *nix people care less about certs, but again I would be trying to break in as say a JR *nix admin or something. There are several large companies in my area with large *nix farms.

NightShade03

If that is truly your goal then I would say forget the Redhat/Sun certs for now. You are right in that *nix people care less about certifications and those that have them usually know damn well what they are doing. Having a cert like the Redhat/Sun would prob land you a job easier, but they would really expect you to know what you are doing and if you are just trying to start as a *nix admin the certs might actually hurt you, instead of helping. I have been on quiet a few interviews for "Jr." position like that, honestly the most things they want to see is that you know the basic commands and they you can troubleshoot (or at least follow a process). I went for this one interview where they asked an insanely complex question that I had no clue how to answer and I told them that, but I also followed up by telling the steps I would take to troubleshoot / look into the issue before going to a more Sr level person. I ended up getting an offer and taking that job 2 weeks later

Bl8ckr0uter

Even a cert like RHCT could hurt me? Hmm.. interesting. Well I guess here is the age old question. How do I get them to pull my resume if I have "some" *nix experience and 0 certifications from a vendor. I don't think the LPIC stuff is going to cut it, even LPIC-2 (nor do I expect that getting those certs will automagically give me the needed skills to manage an enterprise).

NightShade03

I'm only saying it COULD not that you shouldn't do it

I always listed the different Linux technologies and key projects I did on my resume which seemed to get the attention of companies. The LPIC-2 exams will give you the equivalent of what is on the RHCT so that is always a help. It basically boils down to being creative. I used to run a lab with all kinds of *nix servers @ home to do network security research on and practice different things. I would put it on my resume and was always asked about it. Many employers liked the fact that I was proactively working on building my skills at home.

It's always the right combination of skills/experience/luck/interviewing well. If you can get your foot in the door for an interview that is half the battle

Bl8ckr0uter

I have a few soon to be linux boxes that I will start supporting in a few weeks (MRTG, Nagios, Snort/alienvault etc) but I guess I am going to have to be creative.

I have heard that twice (LPIC-2 = RHCT). I thought the LPIC-2 was more on the RHCE level...

NightShade03

knwminus wrote: »

I have heard that twice (LPIC-2 = RHCT).

The are not equal by any means. The LPIC-2 (which means you should have LPIC-1 as well), covers all the material that you are likely to see on the RHCT exam. It ALSO covers much of the material you are likely to see on the RHCE. The difference being that with the LPIC-1/2 behind you, you are more likely to be comfortable enough to perform the tasks on RHCT exam and pass because you will have a decent skill set at this point. You will also have laid the groudwork for the RHCE, but by no means have the hands on requirement covered (the RHCE would eat you alive )

An example would be the LPIC-2 topics cover DHCP servers and DNS on linux. They don't go into specifics on how to configure them, secure them, and troubleshoot them. These are all things you'd need to pass the RHCE. Think of the LPIC-2 as your theoretical experience for the RHCE.

Bl8ckr0uter

Ok that makes sense. Cool. I guess I will make the RHCE a goal (at 800 bucks, I am not even thinking about it til I know I'm ready). I know it would take me longer than a year to get to that level so I am not too worried about it.

Bl8ckr0uter

So I mean is RHCE > MCSE by a vast margin? Besides the testing format, is it just that much more bad ass? I ask because there are many MCSE's without any experience and they use it to break into IT or server administration (windows). Is it simply just not the same at all for *nix?

NightShade03

knwminus wrote: »

So I mean is RHCE > MCSE by a vast margin? Besides the testing format, is it just that much more bad ass? I ask because there are many MCSE's without any experience and they use it to break into IT or server administration (windows). Is it simply just not the same at all for *nix?

The MCSE is based on reading a book and spitting out the answers to a multiple choice simulator with a simulation hear and there. Anyone that studies enough could pass the MCSE and still not know a damn thing about Windows....hence the term paper MCSE.

This isn't the case with the RHCE because of the fact that it is all hands on. You want into a room and they give you a sheet that has a list of things that are broken and things they want you to setup/configure. You have 3.5 hrs and a bunch of servers. There is no way to blow past that by reading a book. You need real world hands on. I wouldn't say the RHCE is > MCSE....they are really apples to oranges. The only comparison really is that they are the "engineer" level certs for their respected areas.

I would also say that someone with an RHCE prob could be thrown into a RedHat environment and survive whereas an MCSE thrown into a Windows environment may not have the same chances.

** Not to start a fight either....there are MANY MCSEs that are really smart and could survive any environment. The MCSE just happens to get a bad rap sometimes because of the "paper MCSE" that go along with it.

Bl8ckr0uter

Thanks for the point of view. When are you taking yours?

NightShade03

I have one booked for the first week in Sept. If that doesn't pan out I have a second one ready to go for the first week of Oct.

darkerosxx

To jump in this late, I've been working with Red Hat for a good while now and I earned RHCT then RHCE. The RHCT would really be an entry level cert that shows you know your way around the OS and can do very basic administration for accounts and troubleshooting user desktops (if you actually ever see those).

If I was hiring an entry level admin and I saw an applicant with the RHCT, I would set their resume on the top of the pile. However, that's cause I've taken it and I doubt you'll meet many hiring managers that have any idea of the expertise you need to pass it.

On a whole, I would say working for the RHCT can only help you in your endeavor to become a better admin, whether you actually get it or not. Plus, if you can honestly tell a hiring manager that you're studying for a Red Hat certification, that likely won't hurt you either.

Bl8ckr0uter

What about if you saw an entry level admin with LPIC-2 and RHCE?

Bl8ckr0uter

NightShade03 wrote: »

I have one booked for the first week in Sept. If that doesn't pan out I have a second one ready to go for the first week of Oct.

You are a busy dude. Good luck although I'm sure you don't need it.

darkerosxx

knwminus wrote: »

What about if you saw an entry level admin with LPIC-2 and RHCE?

I would wonder why/how this person has these certs, but no job experience, to be honest.

Bl8ckr0uter

darkerosxx wrote: »

I would wonder why/how this person has these certs, but no job experience, to be honest.

I see....

I means it not like I am not working in IT. I also support a few *nix boxes and I am building an AlienVault Server and a few other things. I am going to use CENTOS for everything. But I guess it comes back to the chicken and egg thing.

I guess I have to go back to what I said before, there are people with MCSEs/MCITP:EAs and CCNPs who haven't work at "that level" and don't have that level of experience. I understand the RHCE is more difficult because it is performance based, but wouldn't achieving it make me more "qualified" for a JR level position because I had to actually perform task to get the cert? Wouldn't that fair better for me? I guess I don't understand why it would be so bad if I was trying to get an entry level linux support position w/ a RHCE? I am not expecting to manage a 1000 server enterprise in a few months or anything but I think that having a mid level performance based certification shouldn't hurt my job search. Maybe I am missing something. Oh well. I am far from that level anyway but I am just looking at focusing on something and going after it. I am kind of all over the place and I wanted to focus on 1 major cert. I mean I want the VCP, CCNP, RHCE, but I know for me, it would be better to just zero in on a big objective. I wanted to do linux so the LPIC-2 and RHCE came to mind and the more I thought about it, the more I started to want it. Then I talked to a guy at my weekend job who has it and it made me want it even more.

All in all I just want that level of understanding.

QHalo

darkerosxx wrote: »

I would wonder why/how this person has these certs, but no job experience, to be honest.

The RHCE exam is performance based. So how does this logic hold up? If he can pass a performance exam, albeit very difficult, then how is this not enough to remove this type of thinking? Especially for a entry level job.

NightShade03

QHalo wrote: »

The RHCE exam is performance based. So how does this logic hold up? If he can pass a performance exam, albeit very difficult, then how is this not enough to remove this type of thinking? Especially for a entry level job.

Bc no entry level person would ever pass the RHCE. If you somehow manage to though, I as a hiring manager would think a) you cheated b) why are you applying for an entry level job?

@knwminus - RHCertifedEngineer. This is not meant to be an "entry" level job booster. The RHCertifiedTechnician would def help with an entry level job as it is the "basics" of supporting RedHat. Maybe take a look on RedHat's site at the exam prep to see a difference in the two exam objectives and then try to take their free exam preparedness assessments. You can see what is expected out of each exam.

Bl8ckr0uter

I figured I'd just save 800 bucks and so and go for the big dog and if I fail I can at least get a RHCT.

NightShade03

Just make sure that you wait till at least Oct when the new RHCE comes out. This way your certification will be valid for longer.

Side Note - I have a book being published at the moment on the RHCE, which you may be interested in if that is the route you are taking.

Bl8ckr0uter

NightShade03 wrote: »

Just make sure that you wait till at least Oct when the new RHCE comes out. This way your certification will be valid for longer.

Side Note - I have a book being published at the moment on the RHCE, which you may be interested in if that is the route you are taking.

I was going to ask you about that book but I didn't know if you wanted that known or not..... Can you say when it is coming out yet? I wish you would have done the LPIC-2 as well lol. I will pick it up when it comes out for sure.Oh and remember I am talking about at the end of next year or so, I am in no rush.

NightShade03

I can't say a specific date, but I can tell you that I'm aiming for Dec this year or Jan next year. It will include material for the new exam as well.

I'd love to do an LPIC-2 book as there isn't a single one on the market, but I'd have to do some heavy research first to make sure there is even a viable market for that type of book.

Bl8ckr0uter

NightShade03 wrote: »

I can't say a specific date, but I can tell you that I'm aiming for Dec this year or Jan next year. It will include material for the new exam as well.

I'd love to do an LPIC-2 book as there isn't a single one on the market, but I'd have to do some heavy research first to make sure there is even a viable market for that type of book.

Very cool. I'm looking forward to the book!

NightShade03

knwminus wrote: »

Very cool. I'm looking forward to the book!

Thanks!

Bl8ckr0uter

How many RH/CENT servers do you work with?

NightShade03

Hmmm tough question. Probably only around 20 or so at the moment, but that is because the other 40-50 are still on Windows. My big project for this year is migration of all servers over to Linux, which takes time when you have to recreate the entire infrastructure in Linux from Windows. So around 60 when all is said an done by the end of this year. Plus you know the 4-5 "home" servers

Bl8ckr0uter

Cool. I was just curious. I am thinking 3-4 CENT Vms should be enough plus 1-2 Debian/Ubuntu and 1-2 BSD boxes for LPIC-1/2 and RHCE. Plus at least 1 OpenSol for extra credit.

NightShade03

Absolutely. In fact the RH prep guide always talks about a client/server relationship which leads me to believe that you get a single server and single client on the actual exam. I always practice with 3-4 just in case that isn't true, and because it makes dealing with 1-2 much easier.

Bl8ckr0uter

Yep. I noticed that from a book I read and I picked up on that from some RHCEs I know.